This is what is wrong with the Canadian aviation industry.

[redhawkdown]

Got this from another website.

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Hey guys, I earned my commercial license last October (Barrie,ON) and I found a great way to build time. I'm flying skydivers for a company about 30 minutes north of Toronto and I'm getting an average of 10-15 hours per week - usually just on the weekend. The owner of the drop zone (Skydive Toronto Inc.) has a great relationship with his insurance company and they let in pilots with wet ink on their commercial license.

The deal is you pay the operator $1000 for his parapilot course; includes about 3 hours check-out on the C182 and 3 nights groundschool, oh and a solo skydive too; then he takes the pilots who did well in the air and on the written exam. -usually 5-7 pilots but normally there are only a dozen or so in the whole course. (when I did it last October I got really lucky because I was the only one who showed up ) I've logged over 100 hours so far just this Season! No pay though and he works you like a dog but what can u do right?

Written over a year ago

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How sad...

[Hedley]

Wasn't Joe advertising for a Caravan pilot recently? I just about fell off my chair when I read that he was actually offering to pay a few bucks, instead of making the pilot pay to work for him. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

with respect to the pricing of the commodity of low-time pilots in the Toronto area.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=71652

[DanWEC]

I'm glad this poster was the only one that showed up. That means that more and more of the initial orientation pilots are walking out as soon as they hear that it's not a job... but a pilot volunteer position. That's actually a good sign, that karma is finally going after Joe. I wonder, are low time pilots finally starting to stand up for themselves a bit?

Skydive Toronto:
YOU WORK FOR FREE, AFTER PAYING THEM!

Sounds like spending an hour with a hooker.


I have a guaranteed job there due to an in at the company, however I will NOT even consider taking it and perpetuating their pilot work model, even though I am essentially a 200 hr CPL (flight test pending) who hasn't landed their first job yet.

Of the people that pay for the course, only a few get selected as well... leaving you 1000 in the hole, and Joe a few bucks richer for garnering some captive, involuntary skydivers as well.

Having said that, I have jumped there, but won't go back after learning their system.

[The Mole]

Flying a commercial aircraft in canada for free is being an indentured servant. Its illegal in canada and against your human rights. The owner is making money off you. You deserve at least minimum wage. You also cannot be student. ie just building time. You can not as a student fly paying passengers in canada. A few pilots have gone to Labour Canada about this. They got payed for time served as an indentured servant and the slave owner was fined. Look up Sonic Blue/rexair.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servant

[iflyforpie]

The reason why pilots get themselves into this situation is when they start rationalizing it.

"Well, I kind of always wanted to be a skydiver anyways, so paying for the course is okay."

"If I don't get some hours, I will have wasted money on a license I will never use."

"It's going to cost me more money to live in <insert hell hole here>. If I stick around the GTA, I can live at home and still be in civilization."


Of course, the owner knows this. He knows that there are lots of low-timers in the GTA who don't want to roll barrels and clean moose guts for minimum wage in NWO all in the hopes of an empty leg and a vacant seat. Compared to the alternative, paying a grand for a 3 hour checkout (which is required by the AOC for initial training ) and then actually flying seems a relative bargain.

You see it all over. A pilot told me a while ago that she was going to purchase a PPC on a commercial piston twin 'because it would be the cheapest twin time I could buy'.


The moral of the story is, it isn't unsavory owners that are the enemy. It is pilots who allow unsavory owners to operate like this. Don't want to pay for a job? Then don't pay for it! Simple as that!

[The Mole]

Heres a thought. Take it in ass, get the time you need. Go to labour canada and get paid for taking in the ass. Turn the tables on slave owner. Let labour canada deal with.. Other operators will appreciate a person who can stand up for themselves.

[DanWEC]

Is it just me or does the referenced post almost sound a little like propaganda straight from Skydive Toronto?
Being a service industry veteran, I can always tell when staff or owners are padding the online restaurant review sites by inserting their own positive comments. I can smell em a mile away and this one stinks of it.
The post has a very odd tone for a 3rd party to take.

pie: good point on the rationalization. My view is, if you have to justify or rationalize something to yourself or others, 90% of the time you know deep down it's wrong.
The other 10% of the time it's about a girl so logic doesn't matter anyways.

[C-FABH]

Is it just me or does the referenced post almost sound a little like propaganda straight from Skydive Toronto?
Being a service industry veteran, I can always tell when staff or owners are padding the online review sites by inserting their own positive comments. I can smell em a mile away and this one stinks of it.
The post has a very odd tone for a 3rd party to take

Seeing how we live in a society with zero privacy, consider using Google to search for that post (use quotations). Then you can ask the original author yourself! (and potentially make note of their name for any blacklists you compile or have access to)

[DanWEC]

Hope you weren't being sarcastic, because I had already looked it up!

http://sk-sk.facebook.com/topic.php?uid ... topic=3659

This is the thread. The poster gets flamed pretty hard.
Everyone has lapses in judgement though.

[WileyCoyote]

Stories like this is why I'm seriously considering just flying for fun and find another career. The fact is I considering flying for a living just that, a job. And I'm not going to work for free or dismal wages. My options seem to be pretty limited if I want to work for a fair wage....

[missedapproach]

Sorry people but being a pilot in Canada is a joke for most candidates. Spend close to 60,00
end up on a loading dock for min wage then maybe get a chance to fly something that should have been parked in the desert 15 years ago. Operate in the worst conditions you can imagine in substandard equipment going into shithole after shithole all short slippery runways
where if something happens you are screwed.( loose all your hair or get an ulcer) This is the realty. I am not bitter, only being truthful. Canada is the absolute worst place to try and get a proffesional pilot career going.
Not to say that you won't have a chance to fly an airliner eventually and when you do you will be sorely dissapointed ( see " so you want to be an airline pilot" on utube) it is the absolute truth. I know because I am there. My 25 year old son makes more money in construction and is home every night smart guy !

[redhawkdown]

Yep. It was from Facebook.

I tried to hide my source, because I didn't want to reveal the name of the original author of the text.
I also said it was from a website and not from a Social Network Services.

But I bolded the company's name, because I wanted everyone to know which operator is treating pilots like they are his slaves.

I wouldn't be surprised if original author started paying for the fleets' overhaul costs.
After all, he is the one who is flying the aircraft and getting the hours, right?

[Tubthumper]

Another side effect of having too many Flight Schools...errr...."Puppy Mills"..... cranking 'em out a dime a dozen.