65? HAH!!!!

[mulligan]

http://www.economist.com/node/18529505? ... N=72523946

[Rockie]

How ironic and completely in character.

While ACPA is fighting tooth and nail to keep everybody retiring at age 60 (could it be so they move up the ladder faster?), they are trying to implement a contract that ensures everybody hired after them will need to work until they are 72.

[MackTheKnife]

I figured by now it would be evident that in the world according to ACPA, none of that will happen in Canada !

[yycflyguy]

How ironic and completely in character.

While ACPA is fighting tooth and nail to keep everybody retiring at age 60 (could it be so they move up the ladder faster?), they are trying to implement a contract that ensures everybody hired after them will need to work until they are 72.

Agreed.

Although you shouldn't paint the entire membership with that brush. Seems only the top 25% will really benefit from their flypast60 fight and this POS TA.

[Rockie]

Seems only the top 25% will really benefit from their flypast60 fight

I've stated ad nauseum that everybody will benefit from eliminating mandatory retirement. Most opposed to it are simply too far away from retirement to realize it yet, and the benefit is obscured by union misinformation/manipulation and their own desire for advancement up the ladder.

Completely agree about this TA though. Somebody will benefit (besides Air Canada and CR), but it won't be 75% of the pilots on the property or anybody hired after.

[yycflyguy]

I've stated ad nauseum that everybody will benefit from eliminating mandatory retirement

Yes you have. I have also stated ad nauseam that eliminating mandatory retirement will force others to work longer for the same (or less) benefit. I thought we agreed to disagree on this point?

I have a dream. That this nightmare TA and the passion it has invoked is used to unify this fractured membership. No more divisions. One pilot group, one WAWCON.

[Rockie]

I've also stated many times that in addition to benefitting all the members, eliminating mandatory retirement may eventually save the pension. Seems the MEC doesn't agree, and without even investigating ways of saving it and making it more affordable for all they just decided to end it. Great work ACPA.

I have a dream. That this nightmare TA and the passion it has invoked is used to unify this fractured membership. No more divisions. One pilot group, one WAWCON.

One million of these:

[rudder]

I have a dream. That this nightmare TA and the passion it has invoked is used to unify this fractured membership. No more divisions. One pilot group, one WAWCON.

Don't forget that the AC pilots are also in an 'open' period. Consideration of representational alternatives could be also actioned. There is a much bigger tent out there full of pilot professionals that share the same goals as the AC pilots. That organisation would be better off with the AC pilots as full participating members and not just 'guests' at IFALPA gatherings.

[yycflyguy]

I have a dream. That this nightmare TA and the passion it has invoked is used to unify this fractured membership. No more divisions. One pilot group, one WAWCON.

Don't forget that the AC pilots are also in an 'open' period. Consideration of representational alternatives could be also actioned. There is a much bigger tent out there full of pilot professionals that share the same goals as the AC pilots. That organisation would be better off with the AC pilots as full participating members and not just 'guests' at IFALPA gatherings.

Without airing too much of the dirty laundry here. There is resistance to this TA, the process (constitution), the history, the MEC and and some influential individuals. The ball is rolling. Whatever comes of it, is anyone's guess.

Like I said, perhaps this will be reflected on as the event that galvanized a fractured group and collectively improved our future.... whatever that future is.

[morefun]

It is a nice thought ( a unified group ) but the reality is that most pilots will slither away and vote yes. The senior guys will vote yes because they are grandfathered at present rates plus 7% this year, the junior guys will vote yes because they are near sighted and only see a raise on the jungle jet which leaves the guys in the middle which will get the big banana...! There are enough scared pilots out there that will carry the vote…..my only hope is that somehow I’m wrong

[Janszoon]

Talking to the young guys, they don't want to vote yes because (only ONE reason) that means they will be the last people with a DB pension plan in a majority of DC plans near the end of their career. And how do you think the vote will go when it comes to scrapping the DB pension early? Is there any protection 25-30 years from now for that plan in such a scenario? They are also the guys who have to fly with the split group their entire career. And what do they have to look forward to, flying for the LCC for lower wages?? I don't think so. We're with the rest of you... NO to the TA.

[yycflyguy]

The new hire DC plan is only one reason why this TA will fail.

First 4 years new year pay will be almost $20k less than someone who went through 2 years of flat followed by 2 years of formula on the A320.

The LCC work conditions and "grandfathering" of wages means that whenever someone is replaced the wage for that seat declines.

There are holes big enough for the company to drive a Mack truck through to manipulate scheduling rules to their benefit.

There is a rebellion forming. It may be unorganized now, but it is gathering steam and unifying a fractured group.

[LeadingEdge]

It is a nice thought ( a unified group ) but the reality is that most pilots will slither away and vote yes. The senior guys will vote yes because they are grandfathered at present rates plus 7% this year, the junior guys will vote yes because they are near sighted and only see a raise on the jungle jet which leaves the guys in the middle which will get the big banana...! There are enough scared pilots out there that will carry the vote…..my only hope is that somehow I’m wrong

That would be really stupid on the Senior Guys part... No COLA, and now 3-6% reductions in pension payout every 3 years, GO READ IT.

In this TA, the company can revalue your pension downwards, even after retirement! All they need to do is underfund it by $100-300m.