Why are AME's underpaid?

[Bede]

Why do you guys think AME's earn so little at the top end? I was reviewing pay scales at a couple companies and I found that at one company, a top AME makes only about 25% more than a rampie, and about a third (66% less) of a top captain. I think there is a much greater difference in skill and responsibility between unskilled rampie and AME compared to AME and pilot.

Here are my thoughts:
1) AME's have been historically "blue collar", while pilots are "white collar". Old habits die hard.
2) There is much greater income disparity between the bottom and top pilots, than between a first year AME and 15th year AME. I am in my 13th year of flying and I have yet to match what an AME with my experience would make. However, in another 10 years, I will make considerably more than an AME with my years of experience.

[c170b53]

I think trying to value an AME is much like trying to justify training costs. Everyone agrees there's a need, but no one wants to pay and then there's the "show me what I saved by getting quality" lament.

[Pat Richard]

There is very much a "class" differential at play here, and from personal experience it has generally been explained to me that individuals wearing greasy coveralls are not entitled to make the same(or more) than a pretty captain in costume. Makes no difference to most management how important maintenance is and I'll argue that most think we are overpaid as is. Interestingly, many senior managers are pilots, with AME's almost never getting further than DOM.

The other part of the problem is AME's taking the shit wages, but I definitely am seeing less and less of this, at least with experienced guys. It is very hard to find good people currently, and I don't expect this will improve. Question is whether or not companies will up the ante as a response.

My opinion is they won't, for the reasons I initially stated, as that attitude is firmly entrenched in most management psyche and they are pigheaded to acknowledge the fact they are no longer have an endless supply of competent people.
If wages do start to increase, it will be grudgingly, and they will dislike us even more, lol. Another problem for wages increasing significantly is the willingness of many companies to send there heavy out of country, regardless of the quality(Ive witnessed this personally), instead of improving wages here.

None of this applies to helicopters though, as it is an apparent gold mine,except for the fact they can't find people either.

[ourkid2000]

It's interesting....

Where I work, over the past 2 years, I would guess about 30 people have been hired. Only 2 of them had any significant experience.......the rest were right out of school. Some look about 18 years old.

They seem fairly eager and willing to learn and work. Trouble is that the people training them usually only have 2-4 years experience maximum and on several occasions I've seen people with one year in the business training people.

[Schimunga]

When has a pilot ever given a rat's ass about what an AME makes?

And also who the f*ck cares? Hasn't this topic been covered enough times already?

[bombardierfixer]

Oh, c'mon shimunga lets do it again!

I've just joined our AME association at work, at present our #1 issue is comp and ben. When you compare our "total rewards" we are paid in comparison to other carriers in the country near the top. That being said...

We only have six years of pay scale, after that it is only "cost of living increases" so basically after you top out you start falling backwards, just due to the fact that the cost of living increase never reflects the true rate of inflation.
Our Total rewards only count if you can fully actualize them, by that I mean do you have a spouse that can carry you and your piss poor take home, but your account does sky rocket.
The ACA rate is only >6000.00 a year.
Maintenance's problem is you never show a net benefit to the bean counters, you only show a cost and when there are errors. Some people will disagree with the above statement, but show me a program where you can track net benefits.

When I talk about comp and ben to the management types I always go after the high time guys are losing ground, the industry is shrinking and its not worth the responsibility any more. Then you get the glassy stare and the look of incomprehension...

Whats all of the above leading to you may ask? WE NEED TO GET OUR SHIT TOGETHER! I've been trying to get our association to reach out to the other ones WAME ect. I personally believe this is our only avenue to get us where we need to go.

Get involved.
Feel free to let me have it now

[dashx]

Show me the money..........(not percentages)

[azimuthaviation]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj8H63vGRbs&NR=1

Seems AME's are like the guy working the whole day for one Denari and the owner of the vineyard is every operator out there. But according to Fox News, Jesus has their back

[roscoe]

Here we go again. The priciple reason AMEs and mechanics are underpaid rests with where we fall on the balance sheet. If you look closely you will find it described as; "Maintenance Burden", or some such phrase. Therein lies the tale "BURDEN". That is how we are perceived and accounted for, and everyone wants to lighten their load, especially accountants and shareholders!
My$0.02

[rotorhead350]

I wouldn't consider myself underpaid, i am currently making a six figure salary for 6 months work and living in a country where my money goes a lot farther than it would back in Canada. When I left to work overseas I was making almost the same as i am now but then you have to factor in tax and cost of living.

rh350

[Schimunga]

Rotorhead--Any openings at where you work?

[rotorhead350]

If you have experience on S76,BH412, S91, BH206L4, or BH407s then we are looking for people..........

[jobhunter]

The people who can make a difference in our pay and job availability do not read this forum and don't give a rat's ass about us as people. I like the comment that mentioned we are nothing more than a negative on the balance sheet. Please forgive my pessimism and venting. When you're not working (not by choice) it's difficult to stay positive and motivated. Right now this forum is my only connection to the industry as I get no replies to my resumes. You know the line, "We thank everyone for their interest but..." I must be the "but".

[dashx]

everyone wants to lighten their load, especially accountants and shareholders!

And are you perhaps referring to Wall Street (the movie)? Bluestar Airlines deal?

Whad a plot! That Charlie Sheen could he act. Oi! And that Mike Douglas what a good bad guy. Why I tell you...

I believe the movie lost money (The accountants always make sure of that in Hollywood)......

As a matter of fact you could say having an accountant is a burden. Sheet man the plane itself is a burden.....

So what is a good AME salary these days? Employees only please......Oh and don't forget to mention benefits (if any).

[oldguy]

The reason we are underpaid is simply that we are willing to take it, and lack the intestinal fortitude to stand up for ourselves and demand what we all know is past due. We need to be more like Peter Finch 'I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!' and less like Oliver Twist 'Please, sir, I want some more.'

just my thoughs

[qa guy]

A salary has nothing to do with what the position deserves, or what a person feels is fair wage.....

Its a simple matter of supply and demand, mixed in with turnover costs, since those can get pricey.
Some AME's think we are in such demand, however, only one licensed AME is required to sign a maintenance release to return an aircraft to service, the rest of the "technicians" could be simply general labourers, or apprentices. (this already reduces the demand) The only way to justify salary increases is if the demand increases, or the supply decreases. In order to do that we need to increase the amount of air travel, the requirements of the AME, or limit the number of licences that are issued. What we, (and by "we" I mean our associations with ALL of our support) is increase the difficulty level of obtaining an AME license, and pushing for increasing requirements of actually needing a license to work on the airplanes. Instead, it is getting easier to get licensed as an AME now that college exams have been approved as T.C.'s! We could "turn down" shitty wages as some guys recomend, but how will we do that? What will be this magic number that will be considered our minimum? And what happens when we're unemployed and desperate for work? Unless we unionize like some of the other trades??? Now from the flipside....
To many we are not considered poorly paid at all. I have friends with 5-8 yrs of university making 40k/year. Why do we really deserve more than the average AME makes? The educational requirements are really not that difficult. Then a few years in the field learning a skill. Yes, there is quite a bit of responsibility, but we are only certifying that "the work was performed in accordance with......" as mentioned before, there is not really a shortage of qualified people available to perform the work required, so why would an employer, in ANY industry just generously hand out more money?
Hmmm...maybe I should run for president of the association?

[Schimunga]

To qa guy--why would you bring that up? Now this thread is going to get bombarded by the old "well, a plumber makes this much" comparison. Excellent post by the way.

For the rest of you that think that making $30/hr isn't average check this site out and see where you fit in compared to the rest of the work force.

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/labr69a-eng.htm

[bombardierfixer]

I think it has a little of that pilot vs maintenance comparison. And like I said above, its the losing ground part of the equation that hard to swallow for the guys.

QA guy how would we make the licensing harder? Go the EASA route? You have to obtain you're ACA from the government? I don't disagree that the process of licensing has been simplified... greatly, wasn't transport trying to pawn it off a couple of years ago? ACA requirements are different from company to company as well. Where I work we all have them but we need them, there are a few guys that maybe aren't really ready to have them but they lucked out. What are the schools doing number wise anyone know?

[c170b53]

For the rest of you that think that making $30/hr isn't average

Good try if you trying to show why trucker's rigs are falling apart on the roads.

[Schimunga]

c170--what is your point?

My point is that by what qa guy said that people out there who do a lot more schooling then us don't even make $50,000/yr and I was showing that there many professions that don't make as much as AME's do.

So you think that by going to a technical college for 18 months then do some practical work and then write a test you are entitled to, I would say judging by the comments on here, over a $100,000/yr? Am I right c170? What do YOU think is a good wage for an AME?

c170--ever defer a snag so you could surf the net in the office or chat with friends online instead of fixing the aircraft? Or a satellite base defers a snag so the main base has to deal with it and the guys at the satellite base do nothing? You may not have but there are many that do. That might be a reason why management won't pay us more then they do.

[c170b53]

I have friends with 5-8 yrs of university making 40k/year

I'll guess maybe those with a 2.0, maybe lower with a BA or BCA paid by Dad. Anyone else would have economically moved on.

[Pat Richard]

c170--ever defer a snag so you could surf the net in the office or chat with friends online instead of fixing the aircraft? Or a satellite base defers a snag so the main base has to deal with it and the guys at the satellite base do nothing? You may not have but there are many that do. That might be a reason why management won't pay us more then they do.

That's a "chicken or the egg" scenario schimunga, and no doubt, there are lazy ass AME's out there, but my experience has been that shit gets fixed, or at least attempted. There is nothing much more embarrassing than having to explain why something(s) was deferred during a shift and then explaining what was done if you sat around and did nothing. Ain't the way I roll, but I have seen it.
To somewhat fair, a night/evening/holiday shift and/or unhappiness with wages seems to exacerbate this kind of thing, so I'd have to say it's a bit of a merry go round.
Having said that, it's no excuse, and you are expected to work, regardless of the situation/conditions, and if you don't like it, move on.
The point about university educated wages vs. ame's - how many people lives are in most their hands when they go to work? I could argue many more points, but that one is reason enough for me.

[c170b53]

At least EASA has been able to withstand the onslaught from N.A. industry intent on trying to dumb down this industry. Question is; For how long?

[torx]

The point about university educated wages vs. ame's - how many people lives are in most their hands when they go to work? I could argue many more points, but that one is reason enough for me.

Are you for real?? You and and C170 could probably agree on one thing....you both should have God status!! Jeeze...

[Cat Driver]

Well if nothing else an AME needs to know more than a pilot to be good at his/her job.