Completing the ATPL

[Thair81]

Was unable to find an answer elsewhere (perhaps I didn't do a good enough search)...anyway, my predicament is this: I am currently PPC'd on a PC-12, have both A exams passed and have all of the time requirements completed for the ATPL but do not have the multi-engine test within the past 12 months. My question is this: could I go to a place like Cornwall with a Redbird simulator and renew my Group 1 on that (my Group 1 is still valid for another 6 months) and have that count for my multi ride? Or do I actually have to complete a ride in an actual airplane? Any thoughts would help. Thanks in advance to all who respond.

T81

[lownslow]

If it's a renewal then go for the sim but if it's your initial Group 1 ride I believe that still has to be done in an airplane. Also, if you take the sim route make sure the equipment doesn't just meet the technical requirements, there is also some paperwork that's needed in order to use it for renewals. I forget if it just went directly on the sim's certificate or not. The easiest solution is to just not be the first to renew on a school's sim.

LnS.

[loopa]

Just as a side note, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a Group 1 PPC on an aircraft above 12.5 keep the written's valid? Which would make the renewal on a Redbird invalid? Maybe if you did a renewal on a sim that was simulating a multi aircraft heavier than 12.5

I can be wrong, maybe somebody can shed some light on this.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Car 421.34 applies

(5) Skill

(a) Within the 12 months preceding the date of application for the licence, an applicant shall demonstrate in a multi-engined aeroplane with no central thrust configuration and fitted with instruments and equipment suitable for IFR flight in controlled airspace, familiarity with and the ability:
(amended 1999/03/01; previous version)

(i) to perform both normal and emergency flight procedures and manoeuvres appropriate to the aeroplane in which the flight test is conducted; and

(ii) to execute all manoeuvres and procedures set forth in Division XIV for issue of a Group 1 instrument rating.

(b) For issue of the Airline Transport Pilot Licence - Aeroplane, the Minister shall only endorse a Group 1 Instrument Rating on the licence.

Unfortunately TC's position (at least in the Pacific Region) is you have to do the ride in an actual aircraft, not a sim, within the last 12 months.

[chinglish]

In 2009 I applied for my ATPL and my last IFR renewal was in a sim (level C) I didn't have any issues receiving my new sticker. This was in the PAC region FWIW.

[Big Pistons Forever]

In 2009 I applied for my ATPL and my last IFR renewal was in a sim (level C) I didn't have any issues receiving my new sticker. This was in the PAC region FWIW.

The Redbird is not a true "sim" like a level C or D unit which emulates a specific aircraft, it is a FTD, which I think is the issue.

[lownslow]

TC had no problem with my most recent renewal having been done in a FTD when I applied for my ATPL. Now I feel kind of bad, maybe they just didn't notice.

LnS.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Lownslow

What region handled your ATPL application ?

[lownslow]

My ATPL was processed in Ontario. In hindsight I should have read CAR 421.34 a little more closely. I must have read it over and thought, "Group 1 renewal in the last year: check." I actually had a chance to sit down with an inspector to go over all of the paperwork, verify flight times, etc. and I'm sure doing my renewal in the FTD came up at some point.

LnS.

[ptc]

just in the process of finishing up my ATPL, SAMRA is the last exam and when I got in touch with TC in Vancouver they told me that the most current Class 1 has to be completed in an actual aircraft.

[BingBong]

Just as a side note, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a Group 1 PPC on an aircraft above 12.5 keep the written's valid? Which would make the renewal on a Redbird invalid? Maybe if you did a renewal on a sim that was simulating a multi aircraft heavier than 12.5

I can be wrong, maybe somebody can shed some light on this.

IF you were to do an INITIAL type rating on a multi crew aircraft....it would keep your exams valid indefinitely. That being said...If you were to get a type rating using only a level C or less sim...you'd have to complete 3 takeoffs and landings in the actual aircraft to finish the rating.....level D...you can do it all in the sim.

[Thair81]

Thanks to all for the info. Much appreciated. It has helped me out.

T81