In you opinion, is it all worth it? Piloting?

[Flightman7]

Ahhh, just another one of those 16 year olds with a dream. Got about 1 year to decide if im gonna take the journey. PPL when im 17, and after i complete training ill be off to university as a backup plan. I prob logged a million hours of computer research and flight sims, (which i wish counted for something ) and with all the negativity, bitching and moaning about low wages, no family, no kids, living with your parents until your 30 all to end up in the right seat of a dash 8 making 32k until your 40 sumthin at which point you can finally enjoy a decent salary (Jazz) . But to be honest, with all this BS ive been reading, I still cant help myself from having some thought of becoming a pilot pop into my head every 5-10 minutes. Although making it to westjet or aircanda (Also cathay and all those foreign or cargo airlines) is like making it to the NHL or MLB, Is it still worth it? For those of you who have failed to beat the other 10000 odd candidates in the airline rat race and are stuck flying regionals..are you happy? Was it all worth it? I realize that could very well be where I end up, and before I decide to go through with this, and I want to make sure ill be happy there (Because airlines are a possibility, but at the same time unrealistic). Yes, i love to fly, yes I even love sitting in airports waiting for a flight just staring at airtraffic and parked planes, Yes, I listen to live ATC.net regularly, and NO i cant see myself doing any other thing. I know these questions are a matter of personal opinion, and thats exactly what im asking for, your opinion. One of my main worries is not being able to have kids. I know some jazz guys or regional guys that have had families, but i know one (close freinds) who is 32, just got hired by jazz after buying his own house in mississauga and got based in montreal which is fantastic, oh and he also has no kids, no wife, no girlfreind. I guess thats just a sacrafice one has to make to persue a dream career. Anyways, im gonna finnish this book here

So , in your opinion, Is it all worth it!?

Any opinons on what I touched upon above?

Thanks to all you great, very guys on Av canada in advance, As I cant have these questions go unanswered any longer

Thanks

[bverwegen]

Mitch,

I am in somewhat the same position as you. I love aviation and everything about it, and I am currently at Sault College in the aviation program. Yes sometimes thinking about all of those scenarios about growing up and having a family and kids and all that may scare you off, in the end if you are doing what you love everyday I think that that is satisfaction enough to pursue your dreams. Flying a plane is fun, flying a plane for school is surreal, and I'm sure flying planes as a career is second to none.

[Dagwood]

For those of you who have failed to beat the other 10000 odd candidates in the airline rat race and are stuck flying regionals..are you happy? Was it all worth it?

People tend to forget that there is more flying than major airlines. What about corporate, bush flying, aerial spraying, forest fire control, law enforcement, career flight instructor? I'm sure for most of those you could be home 6 nights of the week and pull in over $60,000.

However, if your dream is to fly a dash 8 between the same handful of airports for the next 30 years at $30K, have at 'er... but there is more to canadian aviation then that

[ajet32]

Yes, Is there sacrifice yes again. There is however nothing better in my opinion than flying for a profession. I spoke this weekend with a friend who after a number of downers including loosing money from a bond at a failed airline is now near the pinnacle of his chosen profession.
He is now just about completing his 3rd year at Emirates and flying the A380. loving every minute. Hard work yes but very rewarding.
Another friend just getting ready to start at Qatar Airways ,great opportunities. Don't give up before you start unless you really don't want to fly.

[modi13]

I should have been a lawyer...

[fish4life]

when I was your age it was all about doing everything I could to get on with an airline like Air Canada or Westjet, although now I'm flying for a great outfit and home a lot and living with a g/f so the priorities have changed. Am I rich? Nope, but do make a comfortable living and enjoy a good lifestyle? yes

I'd say go for it but perhaps do a trade instead of university, much easier to do on the side when you aren't making much money during the first few years of flying

[wallypilot]

Just go do it and don't let all the whining deter you. For me, it has been totally worth it, and I can't imagine having done anything else. Keep your expectations in check. Use any connections you have to find potential employment. Get out of your local city, and see what's out there across the country. There is a tonne of diversity in aviation, and often your first job will start you down a very specific track. My first job after instructing for a year was flying geophysical survey, and I stuck with that for many years before eventually flying medevac then corporate/charter. I've had opportunities to go to big red, but for me, I am much happier about staying in corporate. I have wife, kids, and so far it's all been manageable. The time off is great with the family. Taking the kids out to certain popular venues is way better mid week, rather than on the weekends with all the weekend warriors! Not to say there haven't been some tougher times being away too long, etc. But's it's all worth it. I could never see my self doing anything else. And one final remark that has governed my job choices has been to "chase lifestyle, not airplanes". Go for the jobs that give you the lifestyle you want. Don't worry so much about what kind of airplane it is, or for going for the job with the heaviest metal. It's not always possible, but try to pick jobs that allow you to enjoy what you are doing, as well as give you decent work/life balance.

[BEFAN5]

Do it.

If I had listened to all the negativity here I would be doing a job I hated. Sooooo what I had to work a ramp for 6 months. Saved me from my 50/mth Y membership...

Air Canada and Westjet do not always have to be the dream. I used to feel that they were. Now, I am in my 20s, make 50k, am home every night, only work half the month, and by the time I am 30 I'll be clearing 100k a year... Air Canada doesn't seem as appealing from my shoes anymore. I also get to actually FLY an airplane. I am not ready to retire myself to a fully automated airliner and never get to touch the controls.

Closing remarks - When you are 16, the last thing you should be thinking about is Air Canada. That is many many many (if not never) years away. Not everyone makes it to WJ/AC in their career. You will find yourself very sad one day after you have been PFO'd from AC and WJA if you can't accept the job for what it is. If you want to do it, do it. Everything will fall into place eventually.

[yycflyguy]

Mitch,

You are already miles ahead of other future pilots. You have done your research and have a genuine passion for it. You already know that there is a difficult road ahead and are weighing options and asking for input, both good characteristics of a pilot. Kudos to you.

You are right. There is too much bitching and moaning here and with pilots in general. Take it with a grain of salt, but understand where the frustration comes from. Many have watched drastic and detrimental changes to their Wages and Working Conditions (WAWCON) when compared to the late 90s and unfortunately, it appears to only be worsening. Airlines purposely try to divide labour unions internally to better their collective bargaining contracts. This has been the case at my airline. It is ugly but at the end of the day, it's just business.

I have many other friends that have gone through the same career process as I have (2 steps forward, 1 step back) and have career job now at various airlines. Continue your due diligence and investigate where you would like to end up and continue to re-evaluate your decision. The dream airline job today may be tomorrow's dead end nightmare.

I think you already know that you want to pursue it and are just getting cold feet at the alter.

Best of luck.

[North Shore]

To look at the potential downsides for a minute....

1.) Despite your current passion, it is completely conceivable that you could spend a whole lot of hard-earned (borrowed?) cash on this career, and never get a job. Go to University or College first, and get a decent fall-back career, and then leverage that to pay for your flying. That way, you'll have a fall-back plan.

2.) You could end up at a reasonable job in a location that you absolutely hate. Wally posted the best reply for that - chase lifestyle, not machinery or cash.

3.) Google 'Peak Oil', and, without being alarmist, have a sober think about the long-term ramifications it will have on aviation.

My $.02

Good Luck!

[Flightman7]

Thanks you all so much! Reading your posts brought an instant smile to my face! As well as the urge to get up and jump around aimlessly !!

I love the fact that you all made points about how there is so much more to the aviation industry then flying with major airlines and regionals, and how lifestyle is far more important then metal.

People tend to forget that there is more flying than major airlines. What about corporate, bush flying, aerial spraying, forest fire control, law enforcement, career flight instructor? I'm sure for most of those you could be home 6 nights of the week and pull in over $60,000.

Great point, thanks for bringing that to light.

Air Canada and Westjet do not always have to be the dream. I used to feel that they were. Now, I am in my 20s, make 50k, am home every night, only work half the month, and by the time I am 30 I'll be clearing 100k a year... Air Canada doesn't seem as appealing from my shoes anymore. I also get to actually FLY an airplane. I am not ready to retire myself to a fully automated airliner and never get to touch the controls.

Haha, good point about actually flying the plane! This really brought releif knowing that theres still great jobs out there other then airline flying!

However, if your dream is to fly a dash 8 between the same handful of airports for the next 30 years at $30K, have at 'er... but there is more to canadian aviation then that [/quote]

Thanks alot man, After hearing about some of the success out there, jazz seems like no more fun then being forced to listen to Jazz music!

I spoke this weekend with a friend who after a number of downers including loosing money from a bond at a failed airline is now near the pinnacle of his chosen profession.
He is now just about completing his 3rd year at Emirates and flying the A380. loving every minute. Hard work yes but very rewarding.
Another friend just getting ready to start at Qatar Airways ,great opportunities. Don't give up before you start unless you really don't want to fly.

This is a very interesting point, I wasnt aware canadian pilots could work for Emirates or Qatar! What the deal with this type of work? Isnt Emirates based in india only, if im not mistaken? Was your friend forced to move there to work for them, or is there some sort of port or pairing that foreign pilots are able to pick up here in canada? Same with Qatar, Id apreciate any information on that stuff as I never realized that those airlines were a possible employer to canadian pilots!

Thanks again! Oh and btw sorry for the lack of proper grammer, Including some sentences that just made no sense, as well as Finish with two N's!

[North Shore]

Emirates is based in the United Arab Emirates ( here: http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s ... 17&t=h&z=7)
Somewhat historically, many places in the world didn't have the access to a thriving general aviation industry and training facilities, like we do here in North America. Therefore, when, as in the case of UAE, they decided to diversify their economy by starting an airline, they had to look somewhere for pilots to fly it. Canada, USA, and Europe fit the bill, so many pilots went there, drawn by rapid advancement, brand new machinery, and decent payscales compared to what they were earning in their home countries.

Take a deep breath, and slow down a little, though... While your dreams and aspirations are admirable, there's lots of time to go yet. Worry about graduating from Highschool, and getting into Uni/College, then worry about your PPL etc..

[Flightman7]

Take a deep breath, and slow down a little, though... While your dreams and aspirations are admirable, there's lots of time to go yet. Worry about graduating from Highschool, and getting into Uni/College, then worry about your PPL etc..

Are you sure this is a good idea to do it post university? I was told by an air canada 340 capt back in the day that if he could do it all over again he would of done flight training before university and work part time while in university. He said if you have the money, this can be very beneficial due to the fact that afterward your a step ahead of everyone else who did it your way. At the same time you most likely have a great deal of piloting seniority under your belt, and you obviously know a thousand times more then I do about the industry

At this point, taking into consideration your idea about peak oil(hard to not be an alarmist...yikes) , and all other factors, I am not 100% sure i want be a pilot, as I am 16 now, which means im to young and stupid to make life decisions. Im just gathering boat loads of info to base my decision on.

Thanks again,

[AEROBAT]

Is it all worth it? Well that is a good question and I will try to answer it from my warped perspective.

As an investment in your future regarding monetary returns for the requirement in your time and money [lots of money] I could think of several careers that are better. If you are truly bitten by the flying bug though I would say go for it.

I would not wait to get into flying until you are any older though. Join the Air Cadets. Fly ultralights and taildraggers.... anything you can afford. You don't really know yet if you actually like flying. Once you know you like flying buy a plane, preferably something with no electrical system and a wheel in the back, and get started on your commercial.

[AEROBAT]

Oh... I forgot to add that marrying a girl who makes good money helps. That snappy little Cub or T-Crate you will eventually own will charm the pants off her!

[Flightman7]

Oh... I forgot to add that marrying a girl who makes good money helps. That snappy little Cub or T-Crate you will eventually own will charm the pants off her!

I wish i could afford a plane!
But yes, i do know i love flying! I ecpecially love jets obviously, like flying 737's on your way to the tropics...I enjoy the flight more then the vacation Ive also been on two intros at brampton flight center, Not as thrilling but i still loved every minute of it.

Love aviation with all my heart!

[AEROBAT]

Oh... I forgot to add that marrying a girl who makes good money helps. That snappy little Cub or T-Crate you will eventually own will charm the pants off her!

I wish i could afford a plane!
But yes, i do know i love flying! I ecpecially love jets obviously, like flying 737's on your way to the tropics...I enjoy the flight more then the vacation Ive also been on two intros at brampton flight center, Not as thrilling but i still loved every minute of it.

Love aviation with all my heart!

Just what were you flying at Bramton that you found less interesting that being a pax in a 737?

[yycflyguy]

I am not ready to retire myself to a fully automated airliner and never get to touch the controls.

Simply not true.

[The Old Fogducker]

Mr 7 ... or may I call you Flightman?

I'm one of the lucky ones that for roughly 40 years has been doing what I've wanted to do since I was about 5 years old. I'm very well paid for what I've learned over that time, and I learned it because I found it fascinating, not because I had to, or someone was forcing me to.

There certainly have been times when I was employed by a no-mind jerk who couldn't manage to feed peanuts to a monkey, or dogfood to a hungry puppy ... and that was frustrating of course. There was something to learn even from those clowns .... what not to do, or who be like, and where I didn't want to be employed.

I didn't run into anyone telling me I was nuts for wanting to get into the business of aviation until I was halfway through my Commercial pilot training, but I didn't let their personal failure or unhappiness affect me, and I'm glad I didn't.

My adventures have required a great deal of inner strength from time to time. I credit that "grab on and never let go" to the time I spent in the Army Reserve, and having enrolled in "The Dale Carnegie Course" when I was 17 years old.

I can tell you that getting a solid education is going to be a requirement, so dropping out of school and pumping gas to pay for flying lessons isn't the way to go in today and tomorrow's world. So stick with it.

Gotta run, although there is lots more I'd like to say to help you.

I'll leave you with something my dad said to me ... "You've never worked a day in your life" ... and he's right, its all been an adventure for me and has ultimately paid me very well.

Get into "the business of aviation" and don't limit yourself to exclusively flying airplanes ... that's just the first hurdle to jump in a lifetime long race.

Bye for now Flightman... 'outta time.

The Old Fogducker

[Commonwealth]

Mr 7 ... or may I call you Flightman?

I'm one of the lucky ones that for roughly 40 years has been doing what I've wanted to do since I was about 5 years old. I'm very well paid for what I've learned over that time, and I learned it because I found it fascinating, not because I had to, or someone was forcing me to.

There certainly have been times when I was employed by a no-mind jerk who couldn't manage to feed peanuts to a monkey, or dogfood to a hungry puppy ... and that was frustrating of course. There was something to learn even from those clowns .... what not to do, or who be like, and where I didn't want to be employed.

I didn't run into anyone telling me I was nuts for wanting to get into the business of aviation until I was halfway through my Commercial pilot training, but I didn't let their personal failure or unhappiness affect me, and I'm glad I didn't.

My adventures have required a great deal of inner strength from time to time. I credit that "grab on and never let go" to the time I spent in the Army Reserve, and having enrolled in "The Dale Carnegie Course" when I was 17 years old.

I can tell you that getting a solid education is going to be a requirement, so dropping out of school and pumping gas to pay for flying lessons isn't the way to go in today and tomorrow's world. So stick with it.

Gotta run, although there is lots more I'd like to say to help you.

I'll leave you with something my dad said to me ... "You've never worked a day in your life" ... and he's right, its all been an adventure for me and has ultimately paid me very well.

Get into "the business of aviation" and don't limit yourself to exclusively flying airplanes ... that's just the first hurdle to jump in a lifetime long race.

Bye for now Flightman... 'outta time.

The Old Fogducker

Thank you for posting this. Long live the adventure.

[KAG]

Mitch
Like yourself I knew what I wanted to do early on in life. I started flight school right out of high school, and now 34 sitting at westjet I'm loving life. It's been one hell of a (fun) ride, and now I'm shifting my focus from chaseing my career all over Canada, to my growing family. The airlines offer a more normal life (lots of days off) but it's not the thrill a minute other types of flying offer. Which is fine with me, I've had my adventures.
If this is what you want do it.

[FICU]

IMO, you don't have to tie yourself down with an aviation career out of high school... move away from home, do some different things that you enjoy and that can also earn a living for you and then when you are ready to settle down with a strong work ethic, more maturity, and some good life experience, take on an aviation career.

I have known many young pilots that went from high school then into flight college or training schools and into an aviation career with no idea of what a strong work ethic is all about and who had not really "lived life". Then they get tied down chasing metal or seats and miss out on what life has to offer outside of aviation.

If you think life is aviation then go for it but if you want to see what else is out there, wait.

I started my first flying job when I was 30 and have absolutely no regrets!

[highlander]

I have been flying since 1992. I am 36 years old and I have been at WJ for 3.5 years. When I first began flying I met an ex 747 pilot who was flying a Navajo. He said that he had flown everything from cessnas to boeings and was ready to have fun again. (or so he said....maybe there's more to the story) The point is, I think, if there is something bigger and better out there we all want a piece of it. As you get older, believe it or not, you begin to feel that lifestyle is more important. It's hard to recognize this when you are 16 or 18. But when you have a family you realize how important time off is.

Was it all worth it in the end? I think so. Would I have done things differently, maybe. There are no right answers. Talk to enough pilots and you realize that everyone got to where they are by different ways. Military, civilian, charters, instructing, medevacs, corporate...etc. No matter what, find a place where you are happy. Another thnig as well- maybe you will want to fly at the airlines- great if you do- I love my job! Once you get there, maybe it won't be your thing- but that's o.k- at the end of the day you can walk away with the knowledge that you tried it but it wasn't your thing.

Do what's right for you. Do what makes you happy. But make sure you don't have regrets. Better to say you tried something than to not and wish you had......you will regret it for the rest of your life.

[SuperchargedRS]

Is it worth it, to me? YES every second of it.

I love what I do and try to be a artist in my flying, even the crap parts of aviation, like trying to get that first job...its hard, its discouraging, but when you get that first job, you know its worth all the BS. As long as you have the passion to go further then 90% of all your colleges you will do great, just be sure your heart is TOTALLY in it.

[Flightman7]

I started flight school right out of high school, and now 34 sitting at westjet I'm loving life

I have been flying since 1992. I am 36 years old and I have been at WJ for 3.5 years.

I do wish to someday get where you are, although I know there are so many great jobs that arent airline jobs out there. Im extremely happy you guys both accomplished your goal. I do however wish to say one thing: Making it to the airlines nowadays is way harder then back in the 1990's and early 2000's. I could be rong, but ive read many posts from wesjet pilots stating that they would have never been able to get hired with nowadays system. Im going to guess that there will be around 7000 apps when I am in any position to apply for the airlines, not very good odds. Any advice for me?