Proper Radio Proceedures

[elvis]

WHAT IS PROPER RADIO CALL READ BACK PROCEEDURES????

When tower/ATC calls an A/C with instructions it always preceeds the message with A/C call sign::

eg. Air Canada 007 climb and maintain 16 thousand.

IS THE CORRECT READ BACK 1 or 2

# 1 Air Canada 007 , climbing to 1 6 thousand


# 2 Climbing to 1 6 thousand , Air Canada 007


Do you have a ref. in AIP Comm 5.0 to back up your call???? Transport says both are correct; but do you feel one is more correct???

[iflyforpie]

This is one of those stupid nitpick things that doesn't make a huge difference in the real world, but it is a better idea IMHO to follow your call with your call sign.

[Beefitarian]

Which one feels more natural to say in your opinion? I think either one is good on the other end personally. They both contain who you are and what your intention is with the read back proving you heard the right numbers.

[Nark]

Answer C: "Roy-er"

[Spokes]

in best british accent....

This is James Bond, elevator angels 16

[A Regulator]

From the TC AIM under 5.8 but the one I am using is out of date.

Canadian and Foreign Air Carriers:
(a) Initial contact: The operator’s radiotelephony designator
followed by: the flight number, or the last four characters of
the aircraft registration, and the word “heavy” if applicable.
Examples:
Air Canada 149 Heavy (AIR CANADA
ONE FOUR NINE HEAVY)
Air Canada FTHA Heavy (AIR CANADA
FOXTROT TANGO HOTEL ALFA HEAVY)
Speedbird GABCD Heavy (SPEEDBIRD GOLF
ALFA BRAVO CHARLIE DELTA HEAVY)
(b) Subsequent communications: The word “heavy” may
be omitted, and where the aircraft registration is used,
it may be abbreviated to the operator’s radiotelephony
designator and at least the last two characters of the aircraft
registration.
Examples:
Air Canada HA (AIR CANADA HOTEL ALFA)
Speedbird CD (SPEEDBIRD CHARLIE DELTA)
Canadian Private Civil Aircraft and Canadian or

Foreign Carriers Without an Assigned Radiotelephony
Designator:
(a) Initial contact: The manufacturer’s name or the type
of aircraft, followed by the last four characters of the
registration.
Examples:
Cessna GADT (CESSNA GOLF ALFA DELTA TANGO)
Aztec FADT (AZTEC FOXTROT ALFA DELTA TANGO)
NOTE: The words “helicopter,” “glider” or “ultralight” are
an acceptable substitute for the type of aircraft when
these types of aircraft are used.

[stef]

Also I've been noticing a definite slacking off in use of the standard phrase "niner." Let's keep it professional out there guys!

[TG]

Sure!

But sometime, there is a very thin margin between keeping it "professional" and being just anal !





Says the guy who cannot keep two words straight on the radio...

[Elliot Moose]

When tower/ATC calls an A/C with instructions it always preceeds the message with A/C call sign::

eg. Air Canada 007 climb and maintain 16 thousand.

IS THE CORRECT READ BACK 1 or 2

# 1 Air Canada 007 , climbing to 1 6 thousand


# 2 Climbing to 1 6 thousand , Air Canada 007

Neither one. The proper answer is "climb and maintain 16 thousand" and include the call sign at the end. Too damn tired to look up the reference, but you will sound like a real hick outside of N. America otherwise. One should avoid (okay let's say NEVER) use the word "to" or "for" in readbacks like this. That's why ATC uses the above phraseology (or at least they should). Also never pull up to the hold line and announce on tower freq "Air Canada 007 ready for takeoff". I got straightened out one time on that one by an EASA inspector during a ride. The correct thing to say is "Arse-me airline 007 READY FOR DEPARTURE".

Not that anybody else seems to care on this side of the pond...

[gustind]

.

[airway]

WHAT IS PROPER RADIO CALL READ BACK PROCEEDURES????

When tower/ATC calls an A/C with instructions it always preceeds the message with A/C call sign::

eg. Air Canada 007 climb and maintain 16 thousand.

IS THE CORRECT READ BACK 1 or 2

# 1 Air Canada 007 , climbing to 1 6 thousand


# 2 Climbing to 1 6 thousand , Air Canada 007


Do you have a ref. in AIP Comm 5.0 to back up your call???? Transport says both are correct; but do you feel one is more correct???

None of these calls are "proper", although ATC lets alot of things slide. A Standard radio call is in this form:

1. Who you are calling
2. Who you are
3. The message

From CAR 602.31:

(i) subject to subsection (2), in the case of an IFR
flight, read back to the appropriate air traffic control
unit the text of any air traffic control clearance received

I take this to mean you read back exactly what was said to you, in the same order, and using the same words.

If ATC says "Air Canada zero zero seven, climb and maintain one six thousand" (they didn't say who they are, but whatever), you should say "Winnipeg Center, Air Canada zero zero seven, climb and maintain one six thousand".

I would probably omit Winnipeg Center since they did.

[airway]

Also never pull up to the hold line and announce on tower freq "Air Canada 007 ready for takeoff". I got straightened out one time on that one by an EASA inspector during a ride. The correct thing to say is "Arse-me airline 007 READY FOR DEPARTURE".

Not that anybody else seems to care on this side of the pond...

+1 +1 +1

Not according to the AIM:

4.2.8 Take-off Clearance
When ready for takeoff, the pilot shall request a take-off
clearance and should include the runway number. Upon receipt
of the take-off clearance, the pilot shall acknowledge and take
off without delay, or inform ATC if unable to do so.
Pilot: TOWER, JULIETT GOLF TANGO READY FOR TAKEOFF,
RUNWAY THREE SIX.
Tower: JULIETT GOLF TANGO, (any special information—
hazards, obstructions, turn after takeoff, wind
information if required, etc.), CLEARED FOR TAKEOFF
RUNWAY THREE SIX (or JULIETT GOLF TANGO, FROM
GOLF, CLEARED FOR TAKEOFF RUNWAY THREE SIX).

[iflyforpie]

Just remember that most of the AIM is advisory, not regulation.

There is no problem with calling up tower and saying 'ready to go' rather than ready for takeoff or departure. When the airwaves are humming it is probably preferable to use what takes the fewest number of syllables. They know you aren't talking about clocking off your shift or using the lavatory.

However takeoff, landing, and hold short clearances should be transmitted and read back verbatim.

[Xander]

You guys need to get a :

a) Knife.

b) Life.

c) Wife.

d) a and c.

[Heliian]

They should have a seperate forum for radio talk here

i agree with the cars ref.

who you're calling, your call sign and then comm. Shorten afterwards as dictated by local standards.

You are also only replying to the ATC, not giving a readback. If you gave the proper readback you would hear another acknowledgement from the tower letting you know if it's correct or not.

[Gannet167]

Are you seriously going to say "Winnipeg Centre, Air-whatever, climb and maintain _____" ?

I have never, ever heard anyone say the name of the ATC center when reading back any IFR clearance.

[TopperHarley]

"Rodge" or "Roy-er" *should* be the proper protocol here.

[photofly]

I dimly recall that the ICAO standard (or at least the UK standard) was to use the word "takeoff" only in "cleared for takeoff" - other references should be to departure. "Ready for departure" - "cleared for takeoff". Can anyone else confirm that?
"

[niss]

I've used ready to rock with tower, and I regularly use Fox instead of Foxtrot.

I'm sorry.

[Go Juice]

The other day there was a female controler with a rather sexy voice and I heard a very nice: GIGITY GIGITY on the air!!!!

Awesome!!!

[Heliian]

We might encouter some strong "head" winds, giggity.

[rotateandfly]

I think 90% of all calls are:

# 2 Climbing to 1 6 thousand , Air Canada 007

Whereas my company's SOP is call sign first:

# 1 Air Canada 007 , climbing to 1 6 thousand

Reason being the split second it takes the PNF to read back the call sign first gives the PF enough time to set the cleared altitude, the PNF is then able to readback from his own PFD the selected value. Kind of a cross check of a cross check.

In my opinion this is good practice in a glass, multi-crew environment. Everything else it really doesnt matter.

[Beefitarian]

MEN!!!!!!!! AIR CANADA 007 CLIMBING TO ONE SIX THOUSAND!!!! NOT GOING TO CLEAN NO TOILETS!!!!!!!!!! KICK ASSSS!!!!!

[airway]

Are you seriously going to say "Winnipeg Centre, Air-whatever, climb and maintain _____" ?

I have never, ever heard anyone say the name of the ATC center when reading back any IFR clearance.

Did you not read my post Gannet:

"I would probably omit Winnipeg Center since they did."

I guess it just comes down to how much standard phraseology you or ATC can ignore or change safely.

[ScudRunner]

Fife: thats all you need