Float pilot radio calls

[Les Habitants]

Anyone else getting a little bit fed up with the constant natter and uniformative calls coming from a lot of the summer float pilots on 126.7 or 122.8 or 123.3? I know there are a lot of float pilots on this board, and I don't mean to throw salt at all of you, but this particular problem seems to pertain MOSTLY to seasonal float pilots flying out of lodges in remote and uncontrolled airspace.

"DVH is final for the water" is not really an informative radio call. If I responded with "yeah, I'm right in front of you" wouldn't you be going "umm? What?! Tell me more!"

Also, I know it's good to see old friends again, but there's a time and place for evreything. When you're on 123.3 or 122.8 and you hear:
"EBI is 15 to the south landing Old Crotch Lake in 5 minutes"
"Dave! Is that you?!"
"Bill! Yes it is! How are ya?"
"Great! How's your winter been?"
"Oh Just dandy, the wife is back at home pregnant with another young'un now"
"Oh thats fantastic! Tell ya what, why don't we tie up the frequency for 15 minutes and talk about this!"

This tends to be a little frustrating! Especially when you were trying to make a "5 minutes till landing" call, and now it's really "2 minutes till landing" because the frequency was tied up the whole time.

Oh, and for those not on floats making 5 minute radio calls about who they are, where they are, what altitude they are descending through, that they plan to cancel IFR at a certain altitude, that they have information Delta, that they are coming in from ________, that they have some unidentified traffic on TCAS 20 miles away 5000 feet below them, that their balls are itchy and need scratching...please shorten it up just a tad!

/Rant

[TwigPig]

Quite frankly, I feel that the regular "5 minutes out" and "on final" calls aren't anywhere near enough. Calls made on 126.7 and 122.8 (and other ATF frequencies) are all too often missed for whatever reason-pilot doing paperwork, tuning/identing beacon, performing checklist/briefings, or maybe 2 pilots transmit at the same time and step on each other. Pilots in Northern MB and NWO do a LOT of flying in uncontrolled airspace, and are responsible for maintaining their own traffic separation. Making "extra" calls only help make sure you aren't going to unexpectedly rocket into another plane that happened to be in the same area. Good on this crew for doing so.

There is just no compromise for safety, and suggesting that people report their position less just so that you don't have to hear it does not sound like very good airman ship to me. It's one thing if two pilots are having a conversation over 26.7 or another frequency, but simply reporting their position is very smart.

Wow you certainly have changed your tune in the last few months. Maybe think twice about your rants guy. Just saying.....Oh and if guys are chatting away just ask politely to go down a nickle.

[Bushav8er]

Maybe its the Cellphone Generation...all so self-important that their phones have to constantly in their ear or checked for messages...just carrying it to the radio now...anyone else ever want to just key the mike and say "Shut the F***k up!" too?

[DaveP]

Hi Les,
The final for the water calls are simply a position call. I'm thinking you never flew floats because the reason is sometimes poop happens and your colleagues who listened to your radio call may have a better idea to your location if you became over due.

I fly floats out of Sioux Lookout in the summer and it is crazy busy somedays. It's always great to know where everyone is and going. A lot of tracks all intersect and it gives me an idea that the fellow that called final for the water will probably be taking off again in 20 min when I happen to be going by that lake.

As for the chit chat - Ya sometimes it gets carried away but at the end of the day did you really not get your radio call in? Was it really that bad? In the bigger picture and in my opinion the friendships built in these places goes unmatched in any airline I have ever worked at in my 22 years of flying.

Good advise twin...simply ask em to go yak on their company.

Cheers,
Dave.

[Les Habitants]

Wow you certainly have changed your tune in the last few months. Maybe think twice about your rants guy. Just saying.....Oh and if guys are chatting away just ask politely to go down a nickle.

How so? I've never been against making radio calls, but I find it a tad frustrating when the frequencies are abused.
And the take it up a nickel is a good point, however most float pilots only have 1 radio...that said, if they are chatting on it, they're not listening to traffic anyway...I haven't yet found myself asking people to stop, I've just tried to go along with it, but if it ever comes down to it, I'm not going to be uncourteous about it.

The final for the water calls are simply a position call. I'm thinking you never flew floats because the reason is sometimes poop happens and your colleagues who listened to your radio call may have a better idea to your location if you became over due.

I fly floats out of Sioux lookout in the summer and it is crazy busy somedays. It's always great to know where everyone is and going. A lot of tracks all intersect and it gives me an idea that that fellow that called final for the water will probably be taking off again in 20 min when I happen to be going by that lake.

This is fair. I'm not saying that I don't like float pilots making radio calls (in fact, I think people don't make enough radio calls nowadays), but it would be really nice to know exactly which lake a person is going into. The point I'm trying to make is I feel the details (where you are and where you're going) get left out. Some pilots don't even make radio calls at all! I've come smack into collision paths with helicopters and floats out of airports before who didn't bother to make radio calls, or look when they crossed the departure path of the runway for that matter.

As for the chit chat - Ya sometimes it gets carried away but at the end of the day did you really not get your radio call in? Was it really that bad? In the bigger picture and in my opinion the friendships built in these places goes unmatched in any airline I have ever worked at in my 22 years of flying.

22 years of flying on floats? I'll bet you have some good stories. Please don't think I'm trying to discourage these friendships by what I say. I am fairly young myself, and look forward to making many of these. I really feel that 122.8 or 126.7 may not be the best place to connect with friends though. I have had instances where I have been trying to resolve a traffic conflict, but was unable due to the fact there was chatter on the frequency (and I'll admit, it's not always float pilots who do this).

Cheers

[fish4life]

I'd also have to add that float pilots probably get pretty annoyed with IFR a/c calling time to GPS waypoints on an RNAV since they are all flying VFR and likely have no clue where these points are

[DaveP]

Fair enough Les,

I can appreciate what you are saying.
I haven't been flying floats for the full 22 years - I'm currently one of the chief pilots here at Westjet so I can empathize with your IFR calls as well.

Safe flying,
Dave.

[TeePeeCreeper]

Les Habitants

This is fair. I'm not saying that I don't like float pilots making radio calls (in fact, I think people don't make enough radio calls nowadays), but it would be really nice to know exactly which lake a person is going into. The point I'm trying to make is I feel the details (where you are and where you're going) get left out. Some pilots don't even make radio calls at all! I've come smack into collision paths with helicopters and floats out of airports before who didn't bother to make radio calls, or look when they crossed the departure path of the runway for that matter.

You do know that NORDO tracffic does in fact exist, and are not required (or might not even have a radio) to make any calls whatsoever.... Perhaps you should be keeping a better look-out for traffic rather than relying on other's making proper sounding position reports?

As for the ''final for the water''....
Some of the waterbases I've operated in and out of were located near or right next to a land airport which had the same name as the lake... ''ABC is final for the water'' eliminates any confusion.

By the way, its not just seasonal float pilots whom are making long winded calls... I've heard ''bad'' radio calls/''Hey bud, how ya been'' type calls from full time 12.5+ guys as well. No need to single anyone out mate

[ditar]

I'd also have to add that float pilots probably get pretty annoyed with IFR a/c calling time to GPS waypoints on an RNAV since they are all flying VFR and likely have no clue where these points are

I agree with this. When I make calls on an RNAV I include a VFR position as well, such as "ABC is at WAYPT, 10 mile right base for 08 Sumspot" or something of the sort, to give the VFR folks an idea of where I am.

[Kzanol]

Us float pilots get annoyed too though
"Perimeter whatever is 150 DME out of Island Lake at 1-5 thousand we will be Island lake in whatever amount of time"
... few minutes later
"Perimeter whatever is now 125 DME out of Island Lake at 1-5 thousand still enroute Island lake"
... few minutes later
"Perimeter whatever is now 100 DME out of Island Lake... oh and yes we are still enroute Island lake"
... etc...
That's why we don't listen to 26.7

[DHCdriver]

I don't say anything all day long, just when I'm beacon inbound.

[trey kule]

I stopped making all those unnecessary calls years ago when I kept mixing up the mike button with the autopilot disconnect and had to fly the damn thing by hand, and more recently, even if I could remember exactly where the Mic switch is, I would have to do some real gymnastics to get my old eyes the right distance to positively identify it.

As to all the chatter. Well, I havent heard much of that in a few years.. I blame it on the new fangled radios that you cant tune precisely like the old coffee grinders...I think the Doctor mentioned something about my ear ring being the problem, but I dont wear an ear ring and the guy talks way to quietly to make him out properly.

So need to worry about radio transmissions from me.. Just try to stay out of my way by guessing where I might me.

[BankAngle1987]

"DVH is final for the water"

I know exaaaactly what operator this is Sounds like a certain Beech driver I know...

[sky's the limit]

Ah yes, the annual radio procedure gripe thread.

Hmmm, lets see if I can contribute:

- The floaters (nation wide) calling position reports over locations < 5 people on earth know exist.

- The whole light twin/turboprop/747 Capt's in training crowd making calls at Mach 9 trying to sound super cool and airline-esque (Not that I hear airline pilots talking like that, but I digress). Does me a whole lot of good when I don't what the hell you just said, D- for the effort.

- The airline boys and girls who seem unable to check the wx prior to take off and tie up 26.7 for minutes getting updates for 12 different airports two minutes after take off on a CAVOK day. Love that one, particularly rampant in the Northern climates... you know who you are.

- And last but certainly not least, my brethren in helicopters who don't seem to know either: A) where the "on" button for said radios is, B) that making calls with the basic "who, what, where" is actually something others might appreciate from time to time, or C) where and when such calls are required.

So, imho, there isn't a group out there that isn't living in a glass house on this particular subject... Oh how I love "conflictions."

stl

[trey kule]

Helicopters have radios in them????

[2.5milefinal]

sky's the limit
+1

[oldncold]

it may sound frivilous but the alt is much worse! right now in nwo there is a lot of trffic into the ring of fire n I donts mean the nacho's n beer type ya eatlast night with the extra halapenos eh/lol similar to the ekatie in the nwt during the lead up to the mine . lots of floats traffic and fixed wheel 208's ,turbo otters ,pc 12 1900's etc and sked stuff the crossing alt all one can say if every one vfr applies the rules learned as a private pee lot regarding tracks n altitudes wx permitting that will help ad some measure of safety along whn commuynicating let each other know the alt setting being used as the float driver could have been in a remote expoloratory camp all morning etc better to chat and meet in timmy\s over coffee than bump into other at 4500ft over no name lake obit reads good pilot loved family fishing and was a quiet man // fly safe

[square]

To the OP, I will politely disagree. Not everyone flies out of the international and chats up the radio like they're hosting a CBC show. If a guy is flying in uncontrolled airspace all the time, he may not be totally used to what the exact phraseology should be, but I'm glad that these calls are being made in uncontrolled airspace. I fly a lot of IFR into the middle of nowhere and when we're cleared out of controlled airspace for an approach, the only thing we know is what we've heard from 26.7. We're descending into the clutter of all the float and helicopter traffic that's operating uncontrolled -- legal to be NORDO -- and if we don't have TCAS or you don't have a transponder, I'm banking on either good weather or the "BIG SKY CONCEPT."

If you're not sure where the transmitting traffic is then yeah, give him a call and make sure it's not a conflict. But from my perspective I do not at all mind these calls, I'm very happy they are being made because I rely on them to safely transport my passengers. If I know there's no conflict with him and I'm doing something else, I'll just flick off that comm for a minute (hopefully I remember to turn it back on) and it doesn't bother me at all.

OP, I also think that if you're trying to help air safety by suggesting different radiotelephony procedures that you'd be a lot more helpful by making suggestions on how to make a better position report, or by outlining what you liked about position reports you've heard. Cutting people down just discourages people from making calls, since they don't even have to VFR in a helicopter with 1/2 SM VIS. They can just go stealth if they want to. To be honest, this avcanada topic is a pretty lousy way to help out.

[Rowdy]

There are some select perimeter pilots this season who are ear searingly TERRIBLE on the radio. One who must be whispering into the mic and the other yelling at it. I know the metros are loud.. but so is the beaver and you dont hear me blaring into the mic.

STL- You are SPOT on.. a few helos around and they either say nothing or key the mic and dont know what to say. I know you guys are all a lil off kilter from being in the bush so long.. but its not astrophysics!

If anyone hears me on 'eight' around gods.. be sure to say hi or tell me to STFU

[Northern Flyer]

^PVC?^^^

[Lloyd Christmas]

To Oldncold, well, and everyone else!

Oldncold, you made a reference to everyone following the rules they learned as a private pilot regarding tracks and altitudes, and this should keep everyone "relatively safe". I used to think the same aswell, but what everyone must also consider is that there may be aerial/survey missions being conducted that are done at very precise altitudes, and in some cases, "wrong way altitudes". Everytime I fly an east bound photoline at 10000 ft or 8500 ft, in a non-radar environment, in uncontrolled airspace, I keeps my eyes EXTRA peeled for traffic, lights all on, radio calls made on 126.7, TCAS on, etc. I usually try and fly +/- 100 feet of these altitudes to give even just a little buffer, but that's not always possible. I'm generally unable to be more than 100 ft off our target photo altitude, so it can be difficult to conform to proper tracks and cruising altitudes, and yes, we are authorized to be at these odd altitudes:) Just a thought for everyone.

Fly safe,

Lloyd

[phillyfan]

The worst is when airline guys try and call old employers on the radio.

[Cat Driver]

It has been a very long time since I have flown in Canada and things have really changed, even in how people use radios.

Having just finished flying the Husky from coast to coast I was amazed at how many pilots end their location advisories with " Any conflicting please advise " or something to that effect.

When did that come into vogue in Canada?

[co-joe]

It's really not that difficult to make clear concise informative position reports.

First think about what you are going to say before you key the mike. If your GPS is on the map page and you need the FPL page so you can see your waypoints and eta now is a good time to fumble with all those dials. Now is also a great time to ad 3 minutes to my eta cause I won't be landing at cruise speed.

...AND...I am here, I am going there, and I will be there in xxx minutes. That's it.

[Lost Lake]

It has been a very long time since I have flown in Canada and things have really changed, even in how people use radios.

Having just finished flying the Husky from coast to coast I was amazed at how many pilots end their location advisories with " Any conflicting please advise " or something to that effect.

When did that come into vogue in Canada?

Hey CAT. You forgot to add "any conflicting traffic, please advise Charlie Fox Uniform Kilo on 122.8". WTF. don't worry bud, if I'm on that frequency and I think there's a conflict, You'll know about it.

I really like the frequency part. Is there another frequency I don't know about that you should talk on. I thought the frequency your on is the one to use??!!