Pilot - ATC Working Relationship

[avfun]

Sorry in advance for the rambling nature of this post. I'm hoping it'll get conversation started regardless.

I have a question for pilots -- what is your opinion of air traffic controllers?

There seems to be a lot of bitterness and anger amongst the posts on this board, and I'm wondering if you feel that represents the pilot community as a whole. If your opinion is low, why is it that way? What things do we do as a group, either generally or specifically, that cause frustration for you?

I'm aware that a large number of my controller colleagues behave like they've forgotten (or never accepted) that we're in the service industry. Just like any industry, we've got all sorts of personalities -- lazy types who are just there for the cheque; old, crusty guys who will never change because this is the way it was 20 years ago, are among them. I have no doubt this is a major source of frustration, unfortunately there's very little influence I can have on a coworker's attitude (at least in the short term.)

We do have lots of people who do take great pride in their work and want to improve things. We get upset when we make a mistake, and at least as frustrated as you when I see a colleague half-assing it and providing bare minimum service. We want to make it better.

What things can a single controller do to help? What do you wish we could do as a group?

In Winnipeg, in the years I've been here, it seems like the relationship with local pilots has degraded significantly. Do the locals agree? Does the region you work in, either as pilot or controller, have good interaction? What sort of things have gone on to create that situation?

I don't think there are any quick fixes, but I do want to start taking steps to making it better. Suggestions and comments are appreciated. I'll answer as best I can any questions about local Winnipeg issues.

[fish4life]

I'd like to think the relationship between controllers and pilots in YWG is a great one, it's always been good for me. (IFR commercial side, VFR guys may have different ideas)

[BEFAN5]

I talk to you guys in wpg every day and like to think we have a good working relationship. I dont think I would be able to single anyone out for being grumpy, lazy or whatever. I know all your voices and know when you are just having a bad day, or getting frustered with the ifr trainers requesting holds and reading back clearances in cryptic English!

You keep us safe. Why dont we turn the table on this as well. Lets hear from not only.pilots, lets also list some rumblings from the atc guys on how pilots can make this relationship better as well.

[avfun]

It's been suggested to me by a colleague that my previous post likely came off more harshly than I intended. My writing is generally ham-fisted, so I have no doubt this is the case. I will attempt to clarify.

The majority of controllers I've met work hard, and care about doing a good job. I mention the lazy and crusty ones only because those types of behaviours, when I see them, drive me up the wall. Because of that, I assumed it would also be something that pilots were frustrated by. Perhaps it's something that doesn't get noticed, or people don't actually care about. If that's the case, I'll just get over it and try to be less-sensitive to it.

Bottom line is that I mentioned it only as an example, not in an attempt to call anyone out. I'm looking to create dialogue, not drama.

[Jerricho]

It would be better if more of you drivers turned up ON TIME to the Annual St. Patrick's Day thingie down the Forks........

[BEFAN5]

Easier said then done. Remember we run on Indian time.

I am about to take off... No grumpy controllers please!

[sky's the limit]

http://youtu.be/TzFtunP1ytc

[Maynard]

The answer is simple....stop thinking it's the end of the world and laugh a little. There's nothing that says safety = no fun...

[Old Dog Flying]

Maynard: Easier said than done, it all depends on the Manager and I can think of a few that thought that Fun does not Equal Safety...One even told me to tell the pilot community to quit being friendly over the air...Thankfully I fired the company

[lilfssister]

Like any anonymous website...or letters to the editor/customer service phonecall or email...people who are happy with the service tend NOT to give input. Those who are unhappy, especially in a knee jerk reaction, tend to vent

[ZBBYLW]

I fly in and out of YWG. The terminal and center guys for the most part are great! There are one or two guys that don't offer as much in terms of service of the others, but for the most part they all do a good job.

I know many people like to single out one terminal controller in particular (mainly because it's easy with his accent) as being particularly good, I would say there are a hand full that offer the same level of service as him. Things like going the extra mile to discuss with the tower to see if they can un-restrict us on a visual approach instead of just the automatics "final at the faf and XXXX until final" make our days go by better!

Overall I am really happy to get what I get out of YWG terminal because I know they are short staffed. Before my current job I did work as an instructor and while things were a little bit harder a few of the controllers got me in their airspace even if their shift manager thought it would be too busy for them.

Anyhow - here is to the next St. Paddy's day! Or Practice St. Paddy's day.

One another note, what do you guys as controllers hate when we do, or what drives you guys nuts?

[Xander]

I fly for Jazz on the dash and I must say I have a very good opinion about controllers in eastern Canada. The vast majority of them are very good.

What I don't like is when they're nervous on the radio, it doesn't happen very often but it does happen.

Oh and when it's VFR, then it gets ugly with the light traffic. Especially in Quebec city. If a cessna doesn't comply with the tower or makes a mistake, he's sure to get yelled at by the controller.

Keep up the good work guys.

[bverwegen]

I'd have to say that the controllers in Sault Ste. Marie are very accommodating to both the VFR college traffic and the guys from Jazz, Bearskin, Porter, etc. Sometimes it can get rather hectic and people from the college will make mistakes, and the tower isn't afraid to call you out on it, but I've never had a problem with any of the staff there.

[kevenv]

What I don't like is when they're nervous on the radio, it doesn't happen very often but it does happen.

It's either a trainee or a supervisor lol.

[Koopa]

It would be better if more of you drivers turned up ON TIME to the Annual St. Patrick's Day thingie down the Forks........

Hey, I might actually make the September one this time around!

[SueZoo]

What things can a single controller do to help?

It's been my experience that the more time one spends "in the other guys shoes", the better the relationship.

I spent a LOT of time with pilots and controllers in their work environment and it really helped all of us.

Here's an example, and I may be showing my age: we used to get unofficial weather from Manitoba Gov't sites, and a few years in a row we had "Filmon Fridays" when this weather wasn't available. We, FSS, could get snippy with pilots who requested the unoffical weather on a Friday. Then I got a chance to spend a week at the pilot house at YIV/Garden Hill. The highlight for me was while catching a dead head flight back south, the Chief Pilot asked me to call in for the weather, file the flight plan and then remember to offload some freight in Red Sucker Lake. So I called YTH FSS to get my wx brief and file the plan and I asked for the unofficial weather! I was SO embarrassed.

What I learned though was that the pilots were so busy thinking about so many things that the fact that it was a Friday was not uppermost in their thinking.

From that day forward I never got snippy about that again.

On the flip side, my pilot friend spent a day with me on the briefing position in the YWG FIC and she remarked "no wonder you guys sound half asleep reading the TAFs" as she heard me read the same one 20 calls in a row.

Perspective I guess sums it up.

This is also the biggest reason why I loved my time up north. When you're in the small communities we all hung around together off the job and got to know each other as people not just a nameless voice in a headset.