Here's an interesting method of building hours.

[Blakey]

Probably the first person to think of doing this.

http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-community-fr ... Z303742033

Should be no problems at all with the plan!

[iflyforpie]

I'm pretty sure this has been tried many times before. Some even have very professional looking websites.

You can tell he isn't professional because there aren't too many combinations of four people that will fit in a 172.

[phantom]

Hmmm...he didn't seem to quote his 702 Air Ops Certificate number and the ops spec for single engine night carrying of passengers.

[TG]

I'm quoting the add:

the total cost of the flight will get divided by 4 people.

No revenue just expenses shared so unless I'm wrong, it's a private flight.

[CpnCrunch]

I'm quoting the add:

the total cost of the flight will get divided by 4 people.

No revenue just expenses shared so unless I'm wrong, it's a private flight.

Maybe, maybe not (depending on TC's mood). Here are the rules:

http://archive.copanational.org/non-mem ... sement.htm

The important bit is:

"the holder carries passengers only incidentally to the purposes of the flight"

I'm pretty sure TC would successfully argue in court that putting an advert on kijiji isn't "incidental to the purposes of the flight".

I'm also pretty sure that this is the kind of thing that TC would be keen to stop.

[SuperchargedRS]

I say good for him and I hope it works, we need more people who are capable of thinking outside the box.

Funny how some cultures say things the same way, the a "pilot style" comment was very Indian.

[C-FABH]

I say good for him and I hope it works, we need more people who are capable of thinking outside the box.

Low-time pilots in the Greater Toronto Area have been placing online "ads" like this for quite a long time. They usually stop when Avcanada intervenes and conducts a public lynching with their home address, phone numbers, etc - however - there's no shortage of those willing to create more ads. I really don't think ignorance of the CARS is a valid defence. As stated by CpnCrunch, placing an advert on Kijiji would hardly be considered "incidental to the purposes of the flight"

[Pratt X 3]

Here's another one: http://chatham-kent.kijiji.ca/c-service ... Z300936674

[cdnpilot77]

I'm pretty sure this has been tried many times before. Some even have very professional looking websites.

You can tell he isn't professional because there aren't too many combinations of four people that will fit in a 172.

You mean this isn't professional?

i already got more than like 30 emails, my original ad was posted 3 weeks back and i reposted it like almost every day.

[azimuthaviation]

Here's another one: http://chatham-kent.kijiji.ca/c-service ... Z300936674

LOL, it seems he consulted his "legal department" when posting this ad

You only pay for the hourly rental of the airplane .I am not a Pilot for Hire.

[photofly]

I love to fly and will make your first or thousandth experience a memorible one.

There are just too many ways to interpret that...

[BeechjetYKZ]

Let the info posting begin. He rocks the 2 bars pretty well for a PPL.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php? ... 1314766905

[Big Pistons Forever]

Gotta love social media......it makes it really easy to update the "Do Not Hire EVER" list

[Doc]

He can only charge "shared" expenses if he is already making the trip. If the trip is being flown simply because he has folks to share costs, he's illegal. That's it in a nutshell.
eg., "i'm flying to YOW tomorrow, anybody want to go and share costs....?" Legal
"Anybody want to go for an airplane ride and share costs...?" Illegal
Then again, everybody does it. You'd be far better off sharing the costs with 2 or 3 other pilots and doing a major trip, after buying block time. The Bahamas in February?
Cheers

[Dagwood]

You would think the FTU should notice "Sunny" always has lots of random passengers. If I was there, I wouldn't be too happy with a PPL taking away business. As a holder of a CPL, I really frown on unqualified pilots advertising commercial services. Sure, he isn't getting paid in monetary dollars, but you could argue his "reward" is the coveted flight hours.

Oh, and lack of punctuation, spelling, and capital letters (except in the emoticon) doesn't really instill confidence either.

[Doc]

Oh, and lack of punctuation, spelling, and capital letters (except in the emoticon) doesn't really instill confidence either.

You want to talk spelling, punctuation etc., most of you FF's shouldn't even have a licence!

[KK7]

Applicable CARs 401.28(2)

The holder of a private pilot licence may receive reimbursement for costs incurred in respect of a flight if the holder

(a) is the owner or operator of the aircraft;

(b) conducts the flight for purposes other than hire or reward;

(c) carries passengers only incidentally to the purposes of the flight; and

(d) receives a reimbursement that

(i) is provided only by the passengers referred to in paragraph (c), and

(ii) is for the purpose of sharing costs for fuel, oil and fees charged against the aircraft in respect of the flight, as applicable.

I would say that it could be argued that carrying passengers is incidental to the purposes of the flight, if he is looking at building time. He needs to build time, whether he is carrying the passengers or not. But I wonder if renting an aircraft is considered as being the "operator" with respect to the CARs definition:

"operator" - in respect of an aircraft, means the person that has possession of the aircraft as owner, lessee or otherwise;

"otherwise"?

[Dagwood]

(b) conducts the flight for purposes other than hire or reward

This guy would have to prove that he received no reward to pull this off legally.
Internet definition:
re·ward /riˈwôrd/Noun: A thing given in recognition of service, effort, or achievement.

I think it is fair to say his passengers might say: "I won't go to the local FTU, instead I will give you the flight time if you provide a sightseeing service."
Sounds like a reward to me.

(c) carries passengers only incidentally to the purposes of the flight

It's not incidental if the passengers can choose when they want to fly. This guy would have to book the plane ahead of time and fly regardless if he gets other passengers if they are to be incidental to the flight. It would almost be like a scheduled air service, but run by a PPL in a rented airplane.

By the way, the add does not exist anymore. I guess he now has enough flight time

[cdnpilot77]

It could be easily resolved....have an undercover TC rep take him up on the offer of an exhilerating flight, pay his share and offer a small cash tip afterwards for a "job well done".... think hes not gonna take it?

[Johnny#5]

Its a 'chisel charter'....lots of that crap going on....

[Dash-Ate]

He is very bad man!! And what about the insurance company what do they think of a low time PPL ferrying paid passengers....

[traveller123]

And if the pilot pays 1$ on the bill, obviously he shares the costs with the others passengers.

Is it more legal?

[FL_CH]

Just trying to argue in favour of the pilot here:

"Bob, wanna fly to Vegas with me in my Cirrus?"

So if Bob offers to pay for fuel, is that illegal?

It could be argued that the purpose of the flight could be:
a) Visiting Vegas yourself, as a pilot.
b) Practising Cross-Country
c) Fulfilling recency requirements
d) ...

Bob was incidental to the purpose of the flight because the purpose of the flight was never to get Bob to Vegas.

Bob might be instrumental in making the flight possible (i.e. affordable), but he is not essential to the purpose of the flight...

Regardless, a blatant posting on Kijiji is a bit too much, I agree.

[CpnCrunch]

I think you need to look at the reasoning behind the rules. I think TC want to prevent anyone running what is essentially a commercial operation without having the necessary training/skills/oversight to do so safely. Basically if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, TC is gonna try and nail you for it

[kamikaze]

" Just trying to argue in favour of the pilot here:

"Bob, wanna fly to Vegas with me in my Cirrus?"

So if Bob offers to pay for fuel, is that illegal?"

If he pays for ALL the fuel and other direct costs, yes it is illegal. If he pays only HIS SHARE of the fuel and other direct costs, then no.

everyone must be paying their share, including the pilot. If the pilot pays nothing (rental, fuel, etc ...), then he's getting a form of reward as "free time".