Flight Schools in Calgary and Vancouver

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justplanecrazy
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Flight Schools in Calgary and Vancouver

#1 Post by justplanecrazy » Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:55 am

Which flying clubs in Calgary and Vancouver have the most experienced average of instructors. I'm referring to the most level 1's and 2's vs. 3's and 4's.
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#2 Post by bitmonx » Wed May 04, 2005 4:18 pm

Not sure but in any case DO NOT GO WITH PRO IFR at Boundary Bay!!!!!!

I think they really suck.

Students get there, are given a couple of books and they are on their own. No real lesson plan whatsoever....

Very, very dissapointed!
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#3 Post by justplanecrazy » Mon May 09, 2005 3:03 pm

I started my Instructor rating with Pro... thought that in general they were a very knowledgeable and level headed company with some real experience in their ranks. There were a few instructors that seemed a little lacking but that can be expected anywhere. What exactly was your beef with them? Did you not have a scheduled ground school? Who was your instructor?
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#4 Post by Youngback » Mon May 09, 2005 3:53 pm

Bitmonx,
I don't know what your problem with Pro is but I have to disagree with you. I found Pro IFR to be the most complete school I've done any training with. I don't know how long their instructors have been there but the ones I met all seemed knowledgeable.

Pro has a very good and well deserved reputation worldwide in the aviation industry.
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#5 Post by Pugster » Mon May 09, 2005 7:36 pm

Bitmonx;

OK, we get your point, you don't like Pro for one reason or another; that being said, the thread was asking which school had the most experienced instructors, not "please Bitmonx can you share your dislike of Pro with everybody".

I would suggest that there is a better outlet for your discontent with the training you received - you'd probably be way better off voicing your concerns to the people at Pro rather than spouting off on the forum. And as I said the last time I responded to your unsolicited Pro-bashing, I think you're way off base and you'd do a lot better keeping your dislike of Pro to yourself. A LOT of people in this industry got started with Pro, and John has friends in every corner of the industry.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I'd keep your sentiments on this one to yourself - or at least restrict your opinion to an anonymous one.

Consider this friendly advice - and if you don't buy it, I'd post a comment like this in the general section and see the replies you get - I'm sure there's a lot of experienced drivers that have trained and continue to do IFR recurrency training with Pro.
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#6 Post by principalairflygirl » Wed Jun 29, 2005 3:50 pm

When looking at a flight school if you look hard enough you will find someone who did not get along with one in instructor or another. We send all are students to Pro IFR, and have not had one complaint about the school. So if you feel you got the short end of the stick, ask why. Maybe a different instructor would have given a different out come.
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#7 Post by Rowdy » Sun Jul 03, 2005 12:21 pm

I did my private/commercial with Montair. They have a couple of GREAT instructors and overly well cared for aircraft. Because of this the instructors are very busy and I found it hard to make bookings.

Am currently doing my Multi with Pro and found the knowledge of the intructors great, good atmosphere, and everyones very friendly.

I hear good things about pro from everyone Ive talked to.

Cheers!
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#8 Post by Almost_there » Sun Jul 03, 2005 4:08 pm

well pro-ifr does have its problems no doubt but as far as i can say the school's instructors are good at what they do. there are currently 4 class 1's , 2 class 2's i beleive on the VFR side. not so sure about the IFR, but personally i am enjoying my time here.
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#9 Post by EchoNovemberAlpha » Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:18 am

did my private/commercial with Montair. They have a couple of GREAT instructors and overly well cared for aircraft. Because of this the instructors are very busy and I found it hard to make bookings.

Am currently doing my Multi with Pro and found the knowledge of the intructors great, good atmosphere, and everyones very friendly.
Rowdy,Why did you not complete your Multi with Montair..? Was it only because...
the instructors are very busy and I found it hard to make bookings.
...or was there any other reason to it as well?

How did they let you get off...? was it really so easy...? I mean they'd certainly have gotten pissed off at 'losing' you to their next door rival :wink:
:)
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#10 Post by EchoNovemberAlpha » Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:31 am

Hey, I guess Montair has a SenecaII?
Is it in airworthy condition or what..?
Any ideas anyone.....

what's the best school to get hold of a Seneca for a MIFR?...in BC or even S.Ontario..

Also, someone told me you'll need (absolutely need..no questions asked!!) 25hrs to get to MIFR grips on a Seneca...is that true?? :roll:
...or is it just a marketing 'trick' ? :wink:
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#11 Post by Airtids » Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:20 pm

Juan Air in Victoria, Seneca II, full ice, train IMC!
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#12 Post by hz2p » Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:48 pm

You'd have to be nuts to use a (turbocharged) Seneca II for training. You're going to crack cylinders in that fragile TCM IO-360 on a daily basis!

P.S. A Seneca is a bloody twin Cherokee. If you've flown twins before, it should take one or two flights MAX to check you out on it. Turbochargers aren't THAT complicated! Even I can fly them.

A multi-VFR rating should take 2 or 3 days, if you bother to read the aircraft manual before you showed up.

Learning IFR on a twin is for rich people with money to burn. Spend the max 20 hours allowed on a good ground sim. I was cheap and got my single IFR long before I got my multi-VFR and then multi-IFR.
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#13 Post by Airtids » Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:07 pm

Hmmm.... Let's see: I did it for four years, and NEVER had a cylinder problem, either in training, or operational flying. Teaching about how to properly handle the throttles, especially with the overboost in that machine, is the key. Use the best machine you can find, do as much time in the sim as possible to get comfortable with the procedures, and use the time in the aircraft do get comfortable with the aircraft. More complexity, when taught properly, results in becoming a better pilot.
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#14 Post by EchoNovemberAlpha » Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:03 pm

What's the best way of going about your MIFR training?

Doin it after your your PPL, rather than after the CPL seems the natural and obvious choice...alright...got that.

But getting 20 hrs flight time and 20hrs sim time...is it recommended that you do the entire sim time and then go on the A/c? Guess that would be silly...so how do the instructors here generally recommend it for their students?
How about 5 hrs alternatively on the Sim and the A/c untill the entire 40 hrs is done...?
Or in case of 'down-time' (whatever be the reason- WX,A/c unavailability...etc), use the time for the Sim..and utilise the remaining time for A/c flight time?
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#15 Post by Rowdy » Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:19 pm

EchoNovemberAlpha wrote: Rowdy,Why did you not complete your Multi with Montair..?

As I said they were too "busy" for me and my tight schedule!


How did they let you get off...? was it really so easy...? I mean they'd certainly have gotten pissed off at 'losing' you to their next door rival :wink:
:)
It was amazingly easy.. walked right into pro moments after montair turned me down.. and Todd had me booked the very next day (could have gone the same day if I wanted) Took a total of 7hrs... Montair was expecting 10... and in the much more $$$$ Seneca :S

I was actually kind of disappointed with Montair for that fact. but life does go on!
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#16 Post by EchoNovemberAlpha » Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:51 am

hz2p wrote: A multi-VFR rating should take 2 or 3 days, if you bother to read the aircraft manual before you showed up.

Learning IFR on a twin is for rich people with money to burn. Spend the max 20 hours allowed on a good ground sim. I was cheap and got my single IFR long before I got my multi-VFR and then multi-IFR.
Had a couple of basic questions here...
It sure makes economic sense to complete part of of your IFR Flight time on a C172 with the added IFR package of instruments, and then complete the remaining hours IFR on the Multi. Say we do 10hrs a peice. But technically, is that still enough to give you a Group 1 Instrument rating?

Secondly, I assume, that automatically gives you an IFR rating on the C172, or you need to a check ride on the C172 as well if you want it included on your license?

Thirdly, Assuming you complete your Multi IFR in the manner described above (Partly on the C172), and having done this straight after a PPL (C152), What would the ratings look like on your CPL, once you've done the required hours (on the usual C152) and the CPAER..?
Anything like...
CPL (Types : C 152)
IFR (Types : C172, BE76)?

There are a lot of schools doin this out there...giving you a group 1 IFR by doing the training partly on a C172...thus the curiosity.It sure works out more eco..

Thanx
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#17 Post by Pugster » Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:28 am

Echo;

Great questions to be asking as a student. As far as I know, doing part of your training on a group 3 aircraft (single) won't hurt you licence-wise if you flight test on a group 1 aircraft (asym. thrust). It should just show up that you're good to go on the commercial (it's on the front of your licence) and on the back it'll state that you have the ability to pilot all single engine non-high performance blah blah...and the same for the multis. It'll then have "Group 1 instrument rating with currency provisions" - again no problems. The instrument groups are "downgradable" - that is, a group 1 is good for groups 2&3 as well. I don't remember if there's a requirement to do a certain number of hours in the group you'll be endorsed on - one of the other members of the forum could no doubt help me with that one...

I would personally recommend doing "intro" flying on the IFR in singles and in the sim; once you get the basics down and start understanding how the procedures are flown, you can progress directly into working on the emergencies and such. A hold is a hold, whether it is a twin or a single - likewise with all other IFR procedures - the only difference (really) is when the emergencies are thrown in. Well, actually "emergency" because the only real difference that you'll have to worry about is the single-engine approach. Once you start working in the twin, I'd alternate flights with sims - I've always found that an effective way to work on problems encountered during training without the expense of 25+ gallons per hour of cash flying out of the students wallet.

The most significant advice I could give you is to try to find a school that will charge you a set fee for unlimited use of the simulator. The students I had that were the most successful (and least stressed out) were the ones who came in and used the simulator on their own to "fly" the flight test time and time again and work on the procedures with high winds from every angle. On a calm, clear day the flight test is a breeze - but throw in winds from a direction you've never experienced before, some low ceilings, and the stress of a testing situation and that's when the fit is going to hit the shan.

Best of luck, keep your head in the game and you'll do well with Pro and JM

Pugster
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#18 Post by EchoNovemberAlpha » Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:20 am

Thanx Pugster.
True a Group 1 is ‘downgradable’ to a SE IFR too, but that in itself isn’t enough to authorize me to fly IFR on ANY SE is it? I would still need to obtain a rating for that type of A/c first right?
So if I do my MIFR with the flight test on a BE 76, after the PPL on a C152, I would have the authority to fly (under PPL rules) the C152 and the BE76 in both VFR and IFR….
However, to be able to fly a C172 in IFR, I’d have to do a flight test to PPL standards, on the C172; and presumably that would authorize me to VFR and IFR on the C172 in addition to the 152 and BE76.
Correct? Do let me know. :?

Also, once I have rating to fly VFR and IFR on all these A/c under the PPL rules, the next step would be to get the CPL. The doubt here is, if I do a flight test for the CPL on the C152, does that also automatically ‘transfer’ the other ratings (IFR on C172 and BE76) onto the CPL? Will I then be able to fly IFR under CPL rules on the 172 and the Duchess?

Anyone..?
thanx
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#19 Post by EchoNovemberAlpha » Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:16 am

...is there a TC/ CAR's link where I can get more info on the above..? :roll:

Thanx
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#20 Post by TC Guy » Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:48 pm

EchoNovemberAlpha wrote:...is there a TC/ CAR's link where I can get more info on the above..? :roll:

Thanx
Yes, but you will have to do some digging. I will try and make it as clear for you as I can.

When you get at PPL (or CPL/ATPL) it allows you to fly any of the following types of airplanes:

"ALL SINGLE PILOT NON-HIGH PERFORMANCE, SINGLE AND MULTI-ENGINE LAND AEROPLANES
GROUP 1 INSTRUMENT RATING VALID TO 2007/05/01"
etc.

That means that I can do the following:
a) fly any single or multi engine land aeroplane that fits the above discription VFR
b) fly any single or multi engine land aeroplane that fits the above discription IFR (because the instrument rating is Group 1)

For any aircraft that falls outside those parameters, I will need a type endorsement on my licence for each one.

Therefore:
You Group 1 Instrument Rating is valid also for groups 2 and 3 (group 2 is also valid for group 3 but not group 1).

PPL rules for IFR are identical to CPL rules, except: You can't fly for hire or reward AND you can only fly single pilot airplanes.

Does this answer your questions?

-Guy
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#21 Post by EchoNovemberAlpha » Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:24 am

TC Guy wrote: When you get at PPL (or CPL/ATPL) it allows you to fly any of the following types of airplanes:

"ALL SINGLE PILOT NON-HIGH PERFORMANCE, SINGLE AND MULTI-ENGINE LAND AEROPLANES
GROUP 1 INSTRUMENT RATING VALID TO 2007/05/01"
etc.

That means that I can do the following:
a) fly any single or multi engine land aeroplane that fits the above discription VFR
b) fly any single or multi engine land aeroplane that fits the above discription IFR (because the instrument rating is Group 1)


Therefore:
You Group 1 Instrument Rating is valid also for groups 2 and 3 (group 2 is also valid for group 3 but not group 1).


Does this answer your questions?

-Guy
Get the gist of it thanx TC guy.
Just to be a bit specific here, if I'm doing the flight test for PPL/CPL on a C152, and I want to fly a C172 I don't need to have a type endorsement on the 172...is that what it means (dunno if the 172 comes under complex A/c...say the Skyhawk?)?
PPL rules for IFR are identical to CPL rules, except: You can't fly for hire or reward AND you can only fly single pilot airplanes.
So, with a CPL, i can fly for hire & reward...ok...AND I can fly IFR on any multi engine airplane....?...that's within the 'envelope' of parameters..??
For any aircraft that falls outside those parameters, I will need a type endorsement on my licence for each one.
So, How do I find this out..? you at TC are my resource for this I guess?...or the flight school should be able to assist me here?
eg. MIFR test flight done-BE76. CPL obtained-C152. Can I fly for H&R (CPL) on the Seminole or say the Seneca..?

Well if you don't need a type rating to fly an A/c other than on which you qualified, it's as good as an 'open rating', one that allows you to fly all A/c under...say an AUW criteria...1500kgs.
Now that is KOOl if it's true :) ...but Hell I am sure you would atleast need a check or two before you fly such an A/c...maybe by the CFI of the flight school or some other instructor/examiner...atleast unofficially (i mean without an endorsement on your license)

Do let me know ...but thanx again.
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#22 Post by Pugster » Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:23 pm

ENA;

As far as my quick read went, you're correct on all points.

As long as the aircraft falls under the "non-high performance" category you'll be able to work on it with a PPL, CPL, Multi-IFR (group 1). This would qualify for a whack of airplanes - in fact most light twins and singles.

Now, what a flight school or business will want from you may differ, and usually is dictated by insurance policies or company policies regarding "check outs" and the like. If you're instructing there's also some differences when you start teaching on the twins (just for the multi ratings). It's really not complicated however.

Just know for sure that getting your PPL and CPL on a 152 and your ME-IFR on a BE-76 will allow you to work on all non-high performance land aircraft, at least from TC's view.

Cheers, and sorry for the late response - I've been either in the air or away from the computer for the last bit.
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#23 Post by TC Guy » Sun Jul 31, 2005 12:39 am

EAC... I would suggest that many of your questions have been answered. This is VERY complex issue, and you still have questions regarding licencing specifics.

I would ask you to contact a Licincing Inspector via telephone so that you can get all your questions answered, and not wonder about the source. That way, you can voice any issues you have, and be sure you get the support you need.

Here is the link for the numbers you will need.

Link: http://www.tc.gc.ca/air/offices.htm

Hope this helps!

-Guy
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#24 Post by EchoNovemberAlpha » Sun Jul 31, 2005 8:43 am

Yep sure it was great help.
Thank you, TC Guy and Pugster(check your PM).
It sure is complicated..especially since I was trying to compare it with the licensing requirements here in India.
I intend to complete my flying training and get my CPL+MIFR in Canada, and then convert them to an Indain license on my return...so, all the research. To get it right, I'll need to work at obtaining my Canadian CPL and MIFR sure...but I'll also need to ensure I'm doing my training as per DGCA requirements here!...and have the necessary documentation to prove it!!

All the same, thanx to all of ya :)
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