For those considering a better oppertunity.......

http://www.qatarairways.com/global/en/p ... anada.html

Dates in Toronto, and Montreal in mid September.

Anyone on here work for Qatar? Opinions?

Captains
Tax free salary of approximately US$ 11,300 (assuming 70 block hours).

First Officers
Tax free salary of approximately US$ 8,100 (assuming 70 block hours)

Holy crap

If you are seriously about applying, go to PPRUNE and you have a good read. Granted you can't believe everything posted but there is far more to flying there than the money.

There are many Canadian pilots here in Doha.
None of us are trying to leave.

Pprune is........well, Pprune is Pprune lets leave it at that.

Obbie,

How often do you get back to Canada?

Any one go to the road show care to post or PM? OR better yet any one currently working there care to pm?

It is an opportunity and worth looking into, but keep in mind Qatar is not the best choice for the ME. I''m sure Obbie''s #1 choice was Emirates, but you do what you have to do. Qatar is a very rich country but lifestyle and morale is not the best and it's certainly a sacrifice. One of the largest turnover rates of major companies in the ME. Pprune is just another rumor site, true, but where there is smoke....see fire.

Good luck

I've been invited to an interview next month. Any tips or advice?

square wrote:Captains
Tax free salary of approximately US$ 11,300 (assuming 70 block hours).

First Officers
Tax free salary of approximately US$ 8,100 (assuming 70 block hours)

Holy crap

This is a very common mistake in the Expat world. The important number is what is left at the end of the month after you've paid all your bills. You need to look at the total package - not just the salary.

I don't work in the Middle East but I've spent enough time there to know that it's a last resort. I'll work in India or China before I work in the Middle East.

As for Qatar:-

My least favorite layover - the mentality of the Qatari's has to be experienced to be believed.

You need a visa to leave the country.

You have no rights. If it's you vs. any Qatari - you lose every time.

Your contract is just a piece of paper - only a contract written in Arabic has any value (you won't be signing one).

You can be terminated at any time for any reason.


Make sure you do your research and know what you are getting yourself into.

OK...time for some reality,

All pilots here hold a muli-exit visa. We can come and go as we wish.

You have the same legal rights as everybody else does here under Qatari law.
If you are up against a local and it is nothing more than your word against his,
then yes you will probably not win that one. But if you have a case with
evidence supporting you, you will win.

This is a full time opened ended position. It's not a contract, it's a set of T&C's.
When the world changes the T&C's change. Just like any other job. I flew
under a union for years, when the world changed. the contract changed.

Yes you can be terminated at anytime. You can be terminated at anytime
for NOT doing your job. Just like any other job.

Yes it is true, you need to know how much will be in your hand at the
end of the month after paying the bills. For me personally it is about
$5,500 CDN a month into the retirement piggy bank, but everyone is
different. That said, there is a big shinny HUMMER in the parking spot
to my left, and another big shinny HUMMER in the parking spot to my
right, so I think the other pilots are doing pretty good as well.

Yes, gas is 34 cents CDN a litre here.
But the locals drive like MAD MAX.
You do have to see it to believe it.

Obbie,

Any more details on what the lifestyle is like? (live there, live here and commute, etc etc etc)

Obbie wrote:You have the same legal rights as everybody else does here under Qatari law.
If you are up against a local and it is nothing more than your word against his,
then yes you will probably not win that one. But if you have a case with
evidence supporting you, you will win.

@Obbie - How long have you been in Qatar?

Here's a case from Saudi Arabia - pretty clear cut. So far the Saudi's have not prosecuted anyone over this. It's no different in any of the other Middle East countries.

http://arabnews.com/saudiarabia/article116019.ece

It's extremely important to understand you are not in the West - it's a very different culture. Once again make sure you know what you are getting yourself into.

@Snagmaster E

The Middle East is all about control - the last thing they want is you living in a country where you can take them to court or form a union. That is why commuting and/or basings will never happen.

I think choosing Saudi Arabia as an example may be a bad approach when compared to Qatar. Also you said you'd live in India over Qatar, for me that doesn't add up, but to each their own. I am guessing you have had some kind of experience over there that has formed this opinion. Everyone that I know would somewhat mirror Obbie's opinion; its definitely a different culture, but it is doable if you don't mind making some adjustments. I have encountered the same thing in my travels. It's definitely not for me over there, but I could see why and how some people make it work.

So what are they looking for in terms of time and experience to get on?
Is it a career airline?

I am no fan of Qatar, but I would likely choose Qatar over India as a place to live. I do enjoy my Indian night stops (staying in a top-notch hotel makes it all so much more palatable) but after 24 hours I am happy to get out of there again.

Got one friend who is at Qatar after having done a stint in India. He explains that India stands for I'd Never Do It Again.

For those who missed the first chance, they are returning again, Montreal Sept 21 and 22
at the airport Marriott.

The market is a little more flooded this time, current on type is now a requirement.


http://careers.qatarairways.com/qatarai ... geID=12045

Obbie, from what I see on this thread your over there in Qatar. Im curious what you have to say about life,pay,flying,outlook coming from someone who is from these parts (Canada) and flying over there. Pm if you prefer.

I have to second (or third) the opinion that I would never in a million years work in India. As it is I live in an Indian-dominated place, with an Indian-dominated company, and it is enough to do your head in, on a good day. And colleagues/friends who have worked on contract for Jet (737 & 777)...don't exactly have a lot good to say, to put it in civil terms. Corrupt, inefficient, disorganized, and oh yeah, corrupt. Just like the country. I would prefer to work in Saudi over India, any day. Better pay, there's actually a real cameraderie amongst expats, and most Saudi jobs get you out of country half the time anyway - more than I currently spend at home now. And China is really the last frontier for true growth, even as their economy "slows" to "only" 7% growth YOY. But then it's all relative: Guangzhou, Beijing, SIngapore, Hong Kong are all a lot closer to home for me than Dubai. For the Europeans, it's only a 5-7 hour flight to get a taste of home from Dubai.

But India? Notachanceneverinhell.

As far as the comments about the important figure being what you can put in your pocket, that's true. But that has a lot to do with taxes, or the lack thereof. If the package includes housing, there is absolutely no reason not to save almost all of the paycheque, unless you have expensive taste in toys. (Or a wife. Or wives.) The ME majors, for all their faults, do pay what their contracts state. You'll earn it, for sure, flying 92 hours/month with zero regard for timezones, and have zero control over your roster. Yes, there is far more to it than the money, but the money is at least real. So is the bs. Much of the risks Eric mentions exist on every expat contract, i.e. being subject to the bizarre laws of your adopted country, not having contracts honoured, unfair termination, and so on. No risk, no reward.

I can't speak specifically for Qatar, but with EK, it isn't hard on a captain's salary for a single guy to save a low five figures a month. They pay similarly to Qatar, and when you take the utilities allowance (a payment in lieu of taking company accommodation), and choose to rent a place less than the allowance, it frees up basically entirely the whole paycheque, which goes in the complexintentions "can't wait to never fly airplanes again" fund. I don't even know what you'd have to gross in Canada to save 10k/month after expenses. A fair bit, I'd guess. But that's after multiple years, wiping out all debts, and acquiring the crap we all think we need. I'm not sure I'd do it again unless I could have the rapid upgrade again, the FO salary isn't bad but it wouldn't be enough to tempt me now knowing what I do. With growth slowing from the exponential rates it was 5-10 years ago, the upgrade path is slower. And that's crucial if you intend to parlay the experience into a DEC job somewhere.

Best of luck to anyone considering the move. It'll be an adventure, I can tell you that much.

complexintentions wrote:
I don't even know what you'd have to gross in Canada to save 10k/month after expenses. A fair bit, I'd guess.

I can tell you now, complexintentions, I did this calculation a few months ago and I figured the equivalent Gross Salary in Canada would be just a sliver under $200,000 CAD. I shared that with an astute friend and he disagreed; he figured the amount was higher than that.

Unlike you, though, I don't want to never fly an aircraft again. My ideal type is an aircraft without an electrical system, so I don't have to fly at night. When I want, where I want.

Panama Jack wrote:

complexintentions wrote:
I don't even know what you'd have to gross in Canada to save 10k/month after expenses. A fair bit, I'd guess.

I can tell you now, complexintentions, I did this calculation a few months ago and I figured the equivalent Gross Salary in Canada would be just a sliver under $200,000 CAD. I shared that with an astute friend and he disagreed; he figured the amount was higher than that.

Unlike you, though, I don't want to never fly an aircraft again. My ideal type is an aircraft without an electrical system, so I don't have to fly at night. When I want, where I want.

Well according to the tax calculator, if you're married, with no kids, living in BC and don't claim any deductions other than the basic deduction and don't claim any RRSP contributions, you'd need to make $178,000 to take home $120,000. If you contribute 10% of your salary to RRSPs you only need to make $166,000 to take home $120,000. Both are pretty poor salaries for wide body captains. Not bad for the A320. EIther way, as you can see it's the company that's benefitting from the no tax environment not you. If Qatar had 40% tax they'd have to pay $200,000 to be competitive. You'd still get the same $120,000 though.

They work you really hard in the ME too. Time in the bunk doesn't count towards your weekly/monthly/yearly hour limits so that 90 hour month could really be 120 hours if you're only doing long haul flying. As for the short haul A320s. I've seen a couple of their rosters. Scary! I was fatigued just reading it. Here's one that somebody posted on PPRUNE a while ago:

Day 1. day off at out station in Europe.
Day 2. wake-up-call 2150 to fly back to Doha.
Day 3. Land DOH 0535, report again 2245 for Gulf turn-around (3h on gnd).
Day 4. Land DOH 0645, report again 0000 for Gulf turn-around (3h on gnd).
Day 5. Land DOH 0555, report again 1945 for Gulf turn-around ARR DOH 0000.
Day 6. report 1800 regional turn-around
Day 7. Land DOH 0015, report again 1345 for three-sectors (Gulf + layover),
Day 8. land at outstation 0120 (layover), wake-up-call 1500, land DOH 2230
Day 9. off
Day 10. off
Day 11. report 0650, four-sectors around the Gulf, land DOH 1700.
Day 12. report 2245 for Gulf turn-around (3h on gnd)
Day 13. land DOH 0645, report again 2345, two sectors for layover.
Day 14. land at outstation 0830 (layover)
Day 15. wake-up-call 0855, two sectors, land DOH 1910
Day 16. off
Day 17. report 2345, regional turn-around
Day 18. land DOH 0545, report again 1925, one sector for layover
Day 19. land at outstation 0055 (layover), wake-up-call 2300
Day 20. operate back to DOH followed by a Gulf turn-around, land DOH 1050
Day 21. off
Day 22. off
Day 23. ground school (ex. crm, security, dangerous goods)
Day 24. report 1045 Gulf turn-around plus regional turn-around, land DOH 2230.
Day 25. off
Day 26. off
Day 27. report 0700 one sector to Europe for 22h layover.
Day 28. wake-up-call 1030 fly to DOH plus Gulf turn-around, land DOH 2320.
Day 29. report 1230 one sector to Europe for 24h layover.
Day 30. wake-up-call 2200 to fly to Doha
Day 31. land DOH 0530.

All that being said, if I was in Canada and not at AC or WJ I would probably give them a go. There are much better overseas jobs out there though (more pay and less work). If you don't have the command experience QR is a good place to get it relatively quickly and move on. However if you're a 737 captain who isn't at WJ you could almost triple your take home pay elsewhere overseas.

Joe Blow Schmo wrote:

Panama Jack wrote:

complexintentions wrote:
I don't even know what you'd have to gross in Canada to save 10k/month after expenses. A fair bit, I'd guess.

I can tell you now, complexintentions, I did this calculation a few months ago and I figured the equivalent Gross Salary in Canada would be just a sliver under $200,000 CAD. I shared that with an astute friend and he disagreed; he figured the amount was higher than that.

Unlike you, though, I don't want to never fly an aircraft again. My ideal type is an aircraft without an electrical system, so I don't have to fly at night. When I want, where I want.

Well according to the tax calculator, if you're married, with no kids, living in BC and don't claim any deductions other than the basic deduction and don't claim any RRSP contributions, you'd need to make $178,000 to take home $120,000. If you contribute 10% of your salary to RRSPs you only need to make $166,000 to take home $120,000. Both are pretty poor salaries for wide body captains. Not bad for the A320. EIther way, as you can see it's the company that's benefitting from the no tax environment not you. If Qatar had 40% tax they'd have to pay $200,000 to be competitive. You'd still get the same $120,000 though.

Note that he said he SAVED $10,000 per month AFTER expenses, so you would need to net much more than $120,000 to compare. I calculated that in order to put away $10,000 per month, after a fairly frugal $3000 per month for accommodation, food, transportation, etc., you would need to gross $243,000.

OAW is correct. The 10k is savings. The net monthly takehome at current exchange rates is about $16,300 CAD. With rent at $2200/month (apartment, not villa, so single guy example), all other expenses are way less than $3,000 - bear in mind gas is about 45 cents/litre. So 10k into savings is not a stretch at all, if anything it's low. Joe Blow's calculations are based on incorrect assumptions and I'm not sure how he arrived at the conclusion that it's "the company that's benefitting from the no tax environment not you"? The term "salary" is irrelevant without considering the factors that affect how much of it you actually get to keep.

Yep, you earn it all right, and not just at work.

I have a few colleagues at Etihad and Qatar and I know their salaries are competitive too. They have to be.

complexintentions wrote:OAW is correct. The 10k is savings. The net monthly takehome at current exchange rates is about $16,300 CAD. With rent at $2200/month (apartment, not villa, so single guy example), all other expenses are way less than $3,000 - bear in mind gas is about 45 cents/litre. So 10k into savings is not a stretch at all, if anything it's low. Joe Blow's calculations are based on incorrect assumptions and I'm not sure how he arrived at the conclusion that it's "the company that's benefitting from the no tax environment not you"? The term "salary" is irrelevant without considering the factors that affect how much of it you actually get to keep.

Yep, you earn it all right, and not just at work.

I have a few colleagues at Etihad and Qatar and I know their salaries are competitive too. They have to be.

Yah, including everything you get about $16,300 Canadian a month. However I don't think you'll find anything you want to live in for $2200/month. A quick scan through apartment listings in Doha shows that I would probably be spending most or all of the allowance (~CD$3600/month) if I were single and having to top up with my own money if I had a family. If you want to buy your place you'll probably be spending even more. One thing I've realized living overseas (not in Doha) is that you never fully appreciate how much money you'll spend until you're actually there. It's always more than you thought.

I would suggest that if you live a normal lifestyle, don't take too many holidays or go out on the town too often but also have some fun and don't live like a hermit then Obbie's $5500/month savings would be about right. Probably less if you had a family. These are the captain salaries we're talking about too. Chances are if you meet the requirements for that position you probably either have a family or have financial obligations to a former family. The FO salaries are about $5k/month less. Doesn't leave much room for savings. Still better than most Canadian jobs though, at least financially.

Obbie wrote:
Yes, gas is 34 cents CDN a litre here.

And that is why the middle east airlines can be so competitive

I am a FO, in company provided accommodation, so no rent or utilities to pay.
My take home for a month with no vacation in it is usually $9,400 CDN. + or - $300
Depending on how productive my block, hours in the high 80's
10 days off in Doha with 2 or 3 days off at out stations.

I have hit $10,400 on two separate occasions but that is not the norm and was
due to short staff levels.

That's comprised of base pay + flight pay + over night per diems + transportation allowance
No bunk time is not credited towards logbook limits, but you are still payed your flight pay during it.

If you are not saving at least $5000 CDN a month here as a FO or $9000 CDN a month as Capt.
then either you have a serious coke habit, or you need to talk to a financial advisor, because
something is not right in your life.

Please tell me where I can go and make 3 times what I do here Mr Joe Blow Schmo
I would love to know that.