Canadian Flyers inc or Island air flight school

[Juleit Sierra Sierra]

I am an international student and currently overseas, i am planning to get a commercial pilot licence from cananda. For that i have narrowed down to two schools in Ontario 1. Canadian flyers Inc. 2. Island air flight school. but am still confused which one is better, costs wise n traning wise. so need help from all u people here regarding which school i should go for. Any help will be appriciated

[OHMYLANTA]

well I believe canadian flyers can train out of the island airport, so either way its a great place to fly. YTZ is very scenic and easy to access via subway and porter's free shuttle if you live in Toronto. As far as which one to choose, never flown with either. But a close family friend and long time pilot trained with island air way back and says they are very good and recommends everyone looking for training there. hope this helps.

[FenderManDan]

I took a look at Canadian flyers first and then compared to the Island. The pricing as far as their services seems different but in the big picture it will cost more less the same (it's all pay me now or pay me later game). If you do not know anybody to recommend the instructor it will be a bit tougher for you.

I went for the intro flight with Canadian flyers and they have newer C-172R, however that is all they have. Island has more aircraft and more variety (age vise). I personally did not pick any of them since it would take ma a lot of commute time + ferry ride. YTZ can be very busy with the DASH8 traffic and lesson plan can be interrupted/changed every time.

I have heard number of times on the radio (http://www.liveatc.net/search/?icao=YTZ) pilot requesting touch and go and ATC would reply with the instruction for the full stop and back track/hold short, etc. Which is a bunch of time lost driving on the tarmac. Again depends of your schedule and oh... it takes longer to fly to the practice area.

All this can be mitigated by the good instructor, which I will not be able to help you with as far as recommendation is concerned. The experienced forum member might chime it and help you there.

Blue skies,

[Beefitarian]

Ontario, do you have extra money, free place to stay or something? I'm pretty interested to hear why Harv's got bumped.

[DanWEC]

I have a loyalty to Island Air, but you will pay a large premium for your license if you do it in Toronto, and get the same training as you would anywhere else in Canada.
If you're planning on returning to your country of origin after, it doesn't really matter where in Canada you do it.
You could save 10k by getting a CPL outside of TO.

[straightpilot]

Look at www.harvsair.com - they have lots of foreign students, and you're going to save $$$ compared to Toronto Island.

I am not associated with Harv's Air in any way - just a satisfied customer.

[GTAFI]

Avoid Canadian Flyers.

PM me if you would like more info.

[dcabrown]

Finished my PPL at Toronto Island recently.

I can't comment on Island Air or Canadian Flyers (although I know a very good instructor at Island Air), but the Toronto Island training environment is VERY expensive relative to other airports.

Someone mentioned you would save about $10,000 by doing your CPL elsewhere and thats no exaggeration in my opinion.

The main benefit to training at Toronto Island is you will be immediately immersed in a busy and diverse training environment and confident communicating with ATC.

And, well, the city views are pretty awesome.

[warbirdpilot7]

I took a look at Canadian flyers first and then compared to the Island. The pricing as far as their services seems different but in the big picture it will cost more less the same (it's all pay me now or pay me later game). If you do not know anybody to recommend the instructor it will be a bit tougher for you.

I went for the intro flight with Canadian flyers and they have newer C-172R, however that is all they have. Island has more aircraft and more variety (age vise). I personally did not pick any of them since it would take ma a lot of commute time + ferry ride. YTZ can be very busy with the DASH8 traffic and lesson plan can be interrupted/changed every time.

I have heard number of times on the radio (http://www.liveatc.net/search/?icao=YTZ) pilot requesting touch and go and ATC would reply with the instruction for the full stop and back track/hold short, etc. Which is a bunch of time lost driving on the tarmac. Again depends of your schedule and oh... it takes longer to fly to the practice area.

All this can be mitigated by the good instructor, which I will not be able to help you with as far as recommendation is concerned. The experienced forum member might chime it and help you there.

Blue skies,

Where is the practice area for YTZ? Northeast of Downsview?

[photofly]

Where is the practice area for YTZ?

West of Claremont

[Cat Driver]

We used to use the airspace off Scarborough over the lake when I instructed at the Island Airport.

[photofly]

How long ago was that?

http://www.flyislandair.net/Practicearea.html

[Cat Driver]

How long ago was that?

1957 to 1960.

[photofly]

[Beefitarian]

Can't breath~laughing.

I heard Orville was not as nice as Wilber. What did you think Cat?

[Juleit Sierra Sierra]

Finished my PPL at Toronto Island recently.

I can't comment on Island Air or Canadian Flyers (although I know a very good instructor at Island Air), but the Toronto Island training environment is VERY expensive relative to other airports.

Someone mentioned you would save about $10,000 by doing your CPL elsewhere and thats no exaggeration in my opinion.

The main benefit to training at Toronto Island is you will be immediately immersed in a busy and diverse training environment and confident communicating with ATC.

And, well, the city views are pretty awesome.

hey dcabrown!!! thanks for the info , well can u tell me how much did it cost for you to complete your ppl at the island air???? n how much is the average cost for the cpl at YTZ. Is it gonna cost less if i plan on doin my cpl from markham.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Where is the practice area for YTZ?

West of Claremont

Yikes

[MIQ]

However, which other Toronto school would you recommend price-wise? I live downtown Toronto. And trying to see if the commute to other flight schools will be worth it (given i'd save enough money instead)

Since Buttonville is closing soon there will only be Brampton left as far as I know. I also live Downtown Toronto and am currently training at the Island Airport. Really enjoy it a lot. Especially the fact that it only takes me 15 minutes to get there by bike. Wouldn't want to do the commute to any other airport. Saves me actually a lot of time and money. But I also don't have a car so I would rely on TTC. Plus I really enjoy practicing at a busy controlled airport like YTZ with all the Porter and Air Canada Dash 8 even though it's sometimes a little annoying when you're flying circuits.

Is there any school instructing out of Markham CNU8? That would probably be the closest one to the Downtown area.

[FL_CH]

Canadian Flyers have a base in Markham CNU8
http://canadianflyers.com/markham.asp

I like that airport - uncontrolled, short & narrow, a little bit of a challenge in crosswind. You are in Practice Area 5 minutes after take-off.

CYTZ is breathtaking to fly out of, especially at night, but I hate seeing Hobbs turn while I'm number 3 behind two Dash 8s with 2 more on approach.

[whipline]

My other half attempted to do her private lic with Canadian flyers out of Markham a few yrs ago. Why this school hasn't been closed down is a mystery to me. I wouldn't spend YOUR money flying there. If your bored have a quick look http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/s ... e-3849.htm

Pick a school far away from Toronto or any large city that has a practice area right beside the airport. And whatever you do, don't put any money "on account."

[Colonel Sanders]

Followed your link, found:

Corporation: Canadian Flyers International Inc.

Date: Count(s): Violation: Penalty: Location:
2009/04/28 1 CAR 703.02 $ 3 500 Welland, Ont.

The Company operated contrary to the provisions and operations specifications of its Air Operator Certificate.

I'm not sure it matters, but CAR 703 is charter, and has nothing to do with flight training.

Transport fined NavCan $110,000 and I still deal with Navcan (shrug). Did you stop dealing with NavCan after it was fined $110K?

PS I have never dealt with Canadian Flyers Int'l Inc. They may or may not be the greatest bunch of guys or the worst scallywags in Canada as far as I know.

[MIQ]

I'm sure there are many students with lots of different experiences out there but I'm training at Canadian Flyers and so far can only speak very positively about them. However that does not mean that it has to be better than Island Air. I took an intro flight with both schools and just was very happy with the specific instructor at Canadian Flyers and my personal overall impression. It seems like that you can take pretty much any flight school in the country and there will always be people with good and people with bad experiences.
But I also think that a Transport Canada fine in general does not necessarily say much about the quality about the flight training of a school or the reliability of an operation.
A student pilot who by accident overflies a noise sensitive area and gets fined $350 for it doesn't have to be a bad pilot for 'the rest of his life' either.

[whipline]

Hey Mig. I agree there are good and bad instructors out there. The thing is, the CFI should be monitoring it every day to fix/train the bad instructors or get rid of them. Im glad you found a good one. When my gf flew at CF it was a bunch of class 4 instructors in a trailer with no supervision. I didn't say little supervision there was no supervision. It should have been shut down. Her PTR had one entry in it after 30 hrs of training. The sign off page was a mess. Her instructor, and I use the term loosely milked her for 30 hrs to learn what would have taken me less then 10 to teach. It then took me hrs to unteach what he had taught her incorrectly or not at all. Then she moved on to a school that did things correctly and finished up.

Is there a CFI on location where you are? Are they reviewing your PTR at regular intervals? Are they doing supervisory flights with you? When was the last time your instructor had a review from their CFI? How's the pre and post flight briefings? How long did it take you to solo? What's the schools average hrs for a PPL? How many recommends does your instructor have and how's their record?

Colonel your correct the fine was for 704. Looks like they had three of them last year. From the limited amount I saw I'd say their entire business is run the same and not much has changed.

As to the original post, I'd pick another school there's lots of them wanting your business. Burlington, Brampton, Kitchener, Oshawa, etc. Good luck!

[Colonel Sanders]

There are crappy/milking instructors everywhere, that are very
inefficient with the student's money for various reasons. Not
many people care about it, honestly.

Remember, Transport couldn't care less if a school's students take
100 hrs to solo, and 200 hrs to PPL. As long as the students aren't
flunking flight tests, theoretically everything is wonderful.

[MIQ]

That's really unfortunate that your girlfriend had such a bad experience with CF. My personal situation is pretty much exactly the opposite and I can't believe that her PTR wasn't updated regularly. My instructor updates my PTR after each flight and keeps it very clean. No complaints here.
Let me try to answer your questions.

Is there a CFI on location where you are?

Yes there is one CFI at my location.

Are they reviewing your PTR at regular intervals?

I didn't really keep track of how often the CFI reviewed my PTR but the last time was two weeks ago (unfortunately haven't flown since then...)

Are they doing supervisory flights with you?

So far I had one flight with my instructor and the CFI in the back

How's the pre and post flight briefings?

Pre flight briefings are usually around 0.2 and 0.3 hrs, depending on what we are going to do and how much we need to talk about the upcoming lesson. Also depending on how many questions I ask and how long it takes to answer all of them. Post flight briefing is a review of the flight, speaking about what was done well and then what needs some improvement, again if there are any questions and of course update of the PTR. So at each post flight briefing my instructor updates my PTR with me together/in front of me and he always explains to me, what parts at the PTR he is updating.

How long did it take you to solo?

My instructor sent me solo when I was around 15 or 16hrs.

I unfortunately do not know what the average hrs for a PPL are at my school and I also don't know anything about my instructor's record.
I also like to add, that the flight school's booking system in my opinion works pretty good. I usually fly 3 times a week. If I wanted to, it wouldn't be a problem getting 4 or 5 flights a week in (if the weather permits to do so). The flights are usually between 1.0 and 1.5hrs (again depending on what exercises you're going to do / obviously more on a x-country). If you need to cancel a scheduled flight for whatever reason, you don't have to pay any 'cancellation fees' as long as you leave enough notice.
I can definitely understand if your opinion about Canadian Flyers isn't a very good one after the experience you had with your gf but my experience at the island airport is, so far, to 100% a good one. However I have absolutely no idea, how things in Markham are going, I only flew up there once but didn't get to talk to anybody.