French On The Radio

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:04 pm

I had the opportunity to fly into Quebec City in the last couple of days. Lots of French spoken during our arrival. Matter of fact, we were the only ones not speaking French. Now, while I fully realize there was absolutely no risk to us or others, it just seemed a bit strange. Kind of like flying into a small town in China, everybody speaking Chinese, and being completely unaware of our traffic. Now, I certainly don't apologize for not speaking French (my high school French experience really sucked!) because if I were to strap on a headset and learn a second language, it'd be Spanish. I don't go to Quebec. I vacation in the Spanish speaking countries of Mexico and Cuba. Which brings me to realize I could fly in these countries without a word of Spanish. English is the international language of aviation. Except in Quebec. Weird. Just felt like a fish out of water. Is all.

Chuck Ellsworth · Post by **Chuck Ellsworth** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:29 pm

The forum was getting boring.

RenegadeAV8R · Post by **RenegadeAV8R** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:45 pm

Canadian Aviation Regulations (CARs), Part VI, Subpart 2:

Language Used in Aeronautical Radiocommunications

602.133 English and French are the languages of aeronautical radiocommunication in Canada.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... tm#602_132

English is really the international language of aviation; but within a country, "international" does not apply

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:49 pm

RenegadeAV8R wrote:
English is really the international language of aviation; but within a country, "international" does not apply

What you really mean is, within "this" country, "international" does not apply. Believe me, it applies in every other country that I can think of.

BTW, my post was not meant to be taken as a complaint. Just a comment. Nothing more. Nothing less.

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:23 pm

I flew IFR in Mexico and heard both Spanish and English without a heavy accent. I flew one trip into Russia and the enroute controllers spoke an accented English to us and an Air Canada overflight but the local controllers only spoke Russian. I also flew into Quebec and all IFR controllers spoke both languages, and it did not seem to be a problem. One thing that caught me by surprise is when I was doing some flight training out of Mirabel. Both the pilots I was training and the controllers spoke both languages fluently. There was never ever any confusion or doubt. Mind you, these were pros at work. What irks me to no end are people in business in this country, meeting and serving the general public, who do not learn the language.
If you are IFR and the controllers speak to you only in French, you can always squauk 7600 and keep on trucking. It is IMHO being very rude.

fanspeed · Post by **fanspeed** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:27 pm

Doc wrote:
RenegadeAV8R wrote:
English is really the international language of aviation; but within a country, "international" does not apply
What you really mean is, within "this" country, "international" does not apply. Believe me, it applies in every other country that I can think of.

BTW, my post was not meant to be taken as a complaint. Just a comment. Nothing more. Nothing less.

I am in a foreign country right now, and the majority of communications are not in English. I have found this to be the case in most all foreign speaking countries I have ever flown through. Controllers are almost always able to speak english(except for some remote areas, like russia/japan/you get the point) but one can always adapt and work with it. If you are willing to. Just a comment.

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:30 pm

I also remember reading in a Popular Science magazine where the FAA built a tower controllers training simulator in Oklahoma City. they had to teach the controlling computer to recognize and respond to English commands(1970's computer). They discovered that a (VFR) tower controller only need to know 25,000 English words.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:50 pm

Don't get me wrong here folks, I'm not complaining. I'm just not exposed to it, so it was a littler strange. I support the use of French in Quebec, and everyone we spoke to was professional and courteous. Actually, a very enjoyable experience.

ahramin · Post by **ahramin** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:28 pm

You'd get the same feeling flying in Mexico, since you don't know French or Spanish.

Eric Janson · Post by **Eric Janson** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:32 pm

The ICAO approved languages for ATC are

English
French
Spanish
Russian
Chinese
Arabic

However in all cases English language ATC must be available.

My experiences around the world are that as long as you use standard terminology you are understood.

Some of the accents can be very hard to understand (Greek/Italian/Indian/Thai/Maldivian).

ahramin · Post by **ahramin** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:36 pm

I don't see how any Canadian could have trouble understanding an Indian accent.

aerodude · Post by **aerodude** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:54 pm

I think it's great there's different languages used in Canada and that it remains multi cultural. As stated above, controllers and FIC's are totally professional in handling bi-lingual traffic.

Eric Janson · Post by **Eric Janson** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:20 pm

ahramin wrote:I don't see how any Canadian could have trouble understanding an Indian accent.

Try flying into Mumbai/Delhi/Goa/Hyderabad/Bangalore/Cochin/Calicut/Trivandrum/Chennai/Coimbatore/Trichy on a regular basis

Or talking to Mumbai Radio on HF

W0XOF · Post by **W0XOF** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:42 pm

aerodude wrote:I think it's great there's different languages used in Canada and that it remains multi cultural. As stated above, controllers and FIC's are totally professional in handling bi-lingual traffic.

Only ATS in Ottawa Tower/Terminal and the Province of Quebec operate officially in both languages.

KK7 · Post by **KK7** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:37 am

People who think that because of this concept of "international language of aviation is English", that only English is spoken with ATC outside of Canada and the US, has never flown outside of N. America. That's okay, but let me tell you that what is perceived as this international language of aviation is not what you think.

It means that anywhere in the world where there is ATC, the CONTROLLER must be able to operate in English. But that doesn't mean a local language can't be used either. Quebec is by no means unique. In europe I've flown in France, Spain, and elsewhere across Asia and over a large area of Africa, and I can assure you that people communicate with ATC in every language you can think of. I've heard French, Spanish, Arabic, Portuguese, Russian and some I don't recognize. I never had a problem talking to ATC in English though, because as everyone says, English is the international language.

Imagine if you're in France and you have a private licence and just fly from Nice to Toulouse and around, never leaving the country. Does that mean to learn to fly you must learn to speak English? You're in your own country, which is French, and you must learn a foreign language to operate an airplane within your country's borders?

However, when flying outside of your country's borders, unless you know the local language of all the countries you'll be flying over or into, English is the safe language to be assured that you'll be able to communicate with ATC.

There is definitely an argument to be said about decreased situational awareness with mixed language on the radio, and there are plenty of examples where disaster has been been averted by one flight crew catching the mistake of a controller or another flight crew over the radio. But the reality is that the whole planet speaks different languages, and it's just not practical to force everyone to speak English.

If you think Quebec is unique, think again. The US and Canada are unique in that English is almost the only language spoken over the radio with the exception of a few areas.

Beefitarian · Post by **Beefitarian** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:28 am

It's my understanding that two of the problems with flying from Alaska to Russia in small planes are arranging for 100 octane fuel and English speaking controllers.

Northern Flyer · Post by **Northern Flyer** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:32 am

I spent a week last year flying fire suppression out of Quebec city. What an awesome experience. I have to say though I was a bit nervous flying into Quebec city at first because I could not understand position reports. Even on route once we passed Val Dor 90% of the communications were in french. The controllers however were able to switch back and forth between French and English flawlessly.

I have to admit I felt a little ignorant not understanding more than 20 words in French.

Genetk44 · Post by **Genetk44** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:08 am

I was doing my flight school out of Dorval/CYUL and the controllers were switching back and forth between English and French very easily and fluently. I guess having lived my whole life( i'm an English speaker btw) in Quebec hearing both languages didn't seem strange to me. I remember back in the 90's flinging jump-seat on a BM 737 from LHR to Paris hearing French and English constantly once we were in French airspace. Seems pretty normal.

sheephunter · Post by **sheephunter** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:30 am

Flew all summer in Quebec and also felt ignorant in not knowing the language but with a little effort you can get to understand position reports and ATC would switch back and forth pretty much without effort. However, there was not all that much talking going on compared to when I got down around Val Dor where there was constant french chatter on 26.7 and then it took a lot more concentration, especially when not knowing where all these places were that they were reporting. But come on guys, don't be telling us "they are not unique", you'll start hurting feelings (TIC). On the other hand, I found the very professional and what I would think the safest guys were reporting both English and French... wish I had that ability. Sure gives an advantage in every facet of life knowing more than one langauge. Now, what about Troy on Swamp People, they have to put closed caption so that you can understand him and he is on nation television speaking some form of English.... I think. Chuuuute-m, chuuuuuuuute-eeeeem. Heading to New Orleans for Mardi Gras and can't wait.

av8ts · Post by **av8ts** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:39 am

http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/SH33 ... RI_AGC_HF)

kevenv · Post by **kevenv** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:45 am

I can't believe we have to go through this discussion every 6 months or so.

Genetk44 · Post by **Genetk44** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:00 am

lolol....the one I like was the other day listening to an Air France A-380 coming into land at CYUL...now its "AF497 super-lourde......" ...thats AF 497 super-heavy for our non-french speaking members.

Jonathan · Post by **Jonathan** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:19 am

kevenv wrote:I can't believe we have to go through this discussion every 6 months or so.

I can't believe this discussion has not yet turned into bitching about the French language and has remained civilised. Wow!

sheephunter · Post by **sheephunter** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:40 am

well, it's raining out and not much else to do and I can't beleive Doc brought it up just as a side note to his Quebec adventure, I too can't believe it has remained civil. Good going guys. (no into the jug yet?) Guess the meat haulers in NWO will be going crazy with all the warm weather, blow flies and rotting meat and haven't had a chance to get in on this. Keep safe, not much left for this season.

TG · Post by TG » Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:01 pm

I am lucky enough to be bilingual.
And there is some French speaking places (not in Quebec) where I would feel much safer doing all my Coms in French with the ATC.
Much safer then trying to decipher what's being told to me by speedy Gonzales with an awful local accent topped with a poor English.

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