I'm not that smart...so what's this? Re:Ornge

[I WAS Birddog]

If they are the only ones in the "Critical Care" niche...who's the competition where you would need to advertise?!?!

Also, who's paying for these ads? The tax payer?

http://s24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/i ... edia_share

[Beefitarian]

I would think it is to help create positive public opinion to gain support of voters.

[bandaid]

Must be near contract talks time. I see our good old B.C. boy Jimmy Pattison is erecting those beautiful scenery blocking signs in your neck of the woods too.

[sakism]

Also, who's paying for these ads? The tax payer?

Of course it is us. The good news is that these billboards have to be a lot cheaper than the TV ads by such businesses without competition such as the LCBO in Ontario, MPI in Manitoba, BC's public insurance, etc, etc, etc.......

[I WAS Birddog]

The Feds spent $650K years back to advertise the 'tooney'.
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...
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WHO'S THE COMPITION!?!!? Are the afraid I'm going to buy my next case of beer with Mexican Pesos?!?!?
I'm so sick of government waste. The only difference between us and the slaves of Egypt are the size of the stones we have to carry to build their pyramids!!!

10 more years kids....10 more years and I'm outta this putrid business and heading for Tibet. )

[SAR_YQQ]

Also, who's paying for these ads? The tax payer?

How does a not-for-profit, charitable organization equate to a government (hence tax payer funded) entity? I know I must be missing something here.

AFAIK, Ornge is a company that provides helicopter and FW services to the Ontario medical system - like any other entity within this massive organization, it is funded through OHIP by services rendered. Advertising would be covered out of the actual companies budget, and not something billable to OHIP.

[200hr Wonder]

Also, who's paying for these ads? The tax payer?

How does a not-for-profit, charitable organization equate to a government (hence tax payer funded) entity? I know I must be missing something here.

AFAIK, Ornge is a company that provides helicopter and FW services to the Ontario medical system - like any other entity within this massive organization, it is funded through OHIP by services rendered. Advertising would be covered out of the actual companies budget, and not something billable to OHIP.

Yes but OHIP is the the ONLY customer. There is no need to advertise, it is not like they are trying to get new customers or win some sort of publicity. Then again Ornge does need to find a away to burn through all the cash they take out of OHIP. There palaces I mean offices are something else. There brand new aircraft fleet is really nice as well.

[iflyforpie]

10 more years kids....10 more years and I'm outta this putrid business and heading for Tibet. )

I hope you like government sponsored advertising....

[I WAS Birddog]

10 more years kids....10 more years and I'm outta this putrid business and heading for Tibet. )

I hope you like government sponsored advertising....

wait...wut?!?

NOWAAAAY!!!

I can't buy a (government tax dollar) break!!!

[FL280]

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[FL280]

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[I WAS Birddog]

@ FL280

Thank you for taking the time to reply. This answers my original question.

Public perception is that government tax payer funds pays for everything so it's natural to assume we are paying for this critical care service one way or another. The logistics behind how it's provided is inconsequential for the low attention span crowd, including myself, even though I'm in the loop of aviation (somewhat)

It's easy to assume that a ground ambulance or fire department is provided by the tax payer. Period. Now imagine if I saw a billboard that had the following:

"Firehouse #3 through #10 providing critical firefighting services throughout some parts of Toronto"

So why is this needing to be advertised? It's a government service which is dedicated to a specific niche built for a specific sole client.

[Conquest Driver]

This ain't rocket science people, this was all done WITHOUT costing taxpayers anything.

As a rough calculation, the interest on that debenture is 15 million per year. Plus you have to allow for depreciation on all those shiny new aircraft and helicopters.

So, if the taxpayers don't pay the expenses on that debenture who does? The fairy godmother??

[FL280]

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[I WAS Birddog]

FL280....

Again, thank you for the reply. I think it's safe to state that ignoring the back ground noise we can come up with an interesting exchange of thoughts and ideas. I'm enjoying reading your replies. You must excuse my innate instinct to be immediately suspicious when corporate interests meet government officials.

I've briefly read over Ornge's website. I've read your reply. I understand everything you wrote. I understand the fund raising aspect. I understand raising awareness point. However, I've never seen FireHouse #6 in Toronto advertise on a billboard that they'd be the guys to call when it comes putting out fires in the Jane & Finch area because they are better than the other guys. There are no other guys. And it's government funded...

Ornge is the only one in Ontario providing "Critical Care". There is no one else doing critical care. Everyone else is basically patient transfer. (no offence to the other companies)

So....my rhetorical question is, why advertise when you have Ontario Government locked in in this specific niche? And...who is paying for the advertising?

[Beefitarian]

Two things I can think of.

1- The contact is coming up and due to the economy they are going to want positive public opinion to fight for a contract with higher or at least the same levels of revenue.

2- They have become aware of a competitor that is quietly gathering the required equipment to attempt to bid some or all of the contracts.

[I WAS Birddog]

Two things I can think of.

1- The contact is coming up and due to the economy they are going to want positive public opinion to fight for a contract with higher or at least the same levels of revenue.

2- They have become aware of a competitor that is quietly gathering the required equipment to attempt to bid some or all of the contracts.

.....ah.

Enough said. I wish you would have said this in the beginning before we went 15 posts deep

[Beefitarian]

Sowwy.

[2R]

Does any company in Switzerland use the PC-12 for medivacs,or any other company in Europe use the PC-12 for air ambulance.
Maybe by going Global they will exploit the market in Europe

[bandaid]

Must be near contract talks time. I see our good old B.C. boy Jimmy Pattison is erecting those beautiful scenery blocking signs in your neck of the woods too.

Kind of was mentioned way back Birdy.

[ahramin]

This ain't rocket science people, this was all done WITHOUT costing taxpayers anything.

As a rough calculation, the interest on that debenture is 15 million per year. Plus you have to allow for depreciation on all those shiny new aircraft and helicopters.

So, if the taxpayers don't pay the expenses on that debenture who does? The fairy godmother??

At least someone here can add. What we have is a for profit organization maskerading as a non profit health service. This is not a fire hall, ambulance service, or hospital. This is a business that makes piles of money for its principals. What does the CEO of ORNGE get paid and how many of those debentures does he own?

Why are they advertising? Simple: they want more money.

[sstaurus]

Seems ORNGE is not keen to open their books...

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/109 ... rvice?bn=1

[Deltawidget]

Not here to start a fight, just communicate some information.

(From the November 2010 Standard & Poor's rating report)

".....Ornge's 2009 and 2010 financial results were healthy in our view as they have been since inception. In fiscal 2010 (year ended March 31), the company recorded EBITDA of C$6.3 million on revenues of about C$155 million, a modest improvement on fiscal 2009's EBITDA of C$2.5 million on revenues of about C$150 million. Ornge posted a loss of C$19 million for the year largely due to a noncash loss on U.S.-dollar forward contracts the company entered to hedge the currency risk of its US$185 million purchase of new aircraft. As a nonprofit corporation whose expenses are fully funded by MOHLTC, we do not expect Ornge to generate the more substantial EBITDA and net income levels typical of for-profit private health service providers"

Obviously, this is a separate issue from the recently highlighted non disclosure of executive compensation, which I tend to be on the side that all organizations (for profit or not) should provide info on executive compensation.

[FL280]

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[bandaid]

I respectfully disagree. If I owned a corporation, my salary is the business of me and the board, not the public. What would be the benefit of publishing every executives salary? Maybe we should make everyones salary public, might level the playing field within the aviation industry, and every other industry for that matter.

Sorry, when you work for the public your wages are an open book. Mine are posted in the BC Government website. That is the way it is, that is the way it has to be.