Dear Greg

[rudder]

Dear Greg,

Congrats on your announcement of the addition of Q400's. What's that - you didn't say Q400's? There isn't anybody on the planet (other than perhaps some naive sales execs at Aerospatiale) that believes that it will be the ATR72. There may be some early Q400 delivery positions available if AC and Chorus are unable to reach an agreement on further fleet substitution which would result in the expiry of the 15 Q400 options currently held by Chorus (wouldn't that be ironic - potential AC Q400's ending up in WJ paint!)

Adding Q400's is not a game changer, it is simply a logical competitive response to the evolving nature and limitations of the domestic marketplace as well as the geographical and population realities in Canada. But while you are finalising your order with BBD, you could do something to ensure that WJ stays one step ahead of your competition. So, along with leather seating, running water, and 2 washrooms on each aircraft you would be considered tres avant garde if you were the first to install on-demand seat back entertainment in your next gen turboprops.

[prop2jet]

BBD has actually scaled back production of the Q400 this year due to low demand. It could likely be ramped up again with new orders.

[Deltawidget]

The bean counters will probably say its not worth it. Between people having iphone, ipods, ipads, laptops... probably enough entertainment to keep passengers busy for a few hours.

[Mig29]

I like your idea of 2 washrooms and potable water! No one seems to put emphasis on personal well being and hygiene....and nothing pisses me more then guys walking outside of the bathrooms (or even stalls!) and not washing their hands!! You know who you are!

Now if AC would put water on board and 6-8 J class seats and nice little snacks like Porter does on their Q400s for the rest of the folks in the back, then we have ourselves (a potential) 3 way healthy competition in our Canadian market. Nickling and dimming seems to be the trend these days, why not change that in 2012?

Something tells me that this may be another pricing war with emphasis on maximizing efficiency while returning minimum to the public or employees as well...

[rudder]

Dear Greg (Part II),

Forget about the suggestion for upgraded amenities on your Q400's.

I would rather you fly airplanes with cloth seats and no running water or tv's and pay your WJ Express pilots what they deserve. Times must really be tough that you would require slave labour in order to compete. You should be ashamed of yourself for the proposed wage and I sincerely hope that your pilots hold you accountable.

They have said 'NO' once before and I hope that they do so again, and with vigour.

WJ garners a lot of respect for how it treats its employees. Westjet Express staff should be treated just as WJ employees. Fair wages and fair benefits. If you cannot afford market rates then perhaps it is back to the drawing board. Labelling it as a separate company is a sleazy way of saying that they should be treated as second class citizens at WJ. Your offer reinforces that philosophy. That is not what I thought 'westjetters' were all about.

[Joint-venture]

Agreed. There's no doubt that WJA Ltd. will benefit greatly from the efficiencies of Q400's. The bottom 80% of WJ pilots (sorry newest 800 team members), not so much. I'm confident most WestJetters are on board which is going to make the pilot group rather unpopular if they choose not to embrace it. Now we'll see how strong the glue really is. I sincerely hope for the best, however my fear is that the pilot group sacrifice their personal careers, profession, and the integrity of the industry for the greater good of an already immensly successful company.

Dear Gregg, good luck with that one.

[Jastapilot]

Hey Rudder, if you want someone to read a letter you wrote them, you should at least do them the courtesy of spelling their name correctly. (might get read that way)

[rudder]

Gregggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg - there, are you happy

signed,

rudderrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Jastapilot]

Thanks! I'm sure that will cover a few future missing g's...

[CCR]

As an example, what were the starting wages at Air Nova when it was a start up? Industry leading? Average? Sub standard? What was the pension on day one? How were the travel benefits? Was there guaranteed flow through to AC in 86? 13 years after it started this is what I encountered when I joined QK in 99. I took a 17,000$ pay cut when I joined. Three years later I exceeded my CMA wage. I was offered a 5% match contribution plan that restricted me to mutual funds only. When I traveled on mainline, I was a second class citizen. I could get an interview at AC after two years BUT...I had to re-interview. My chances of getting through were not bad prior to the common employer ruling in 99 but nil after that. The company was mature and the pilots were represented by an established union by this time. Wow...13 years after start up hey...Either the original pilots started with very little or...nothing had changed at all in 13 years...I'll bet on the former.

So my question is to the guys and gals out there with 1000-3000 hours working your way through the industry. And remember the leaked numbers were a rough idea and not set in stone. WestJet Lite is offering you a wage at a minimum 80% of industry standard median. Hmmm, maybe a pay cut...but....you'll probably experience the same in the first two years at Jazz AND your on the ground floor...hello Upgrade!! The starting retirement package involves a 10% match. The average Canadian citizen barely contributes 1% gross earnings to their retirement let alone 10% and let alone a company match. A year later you sell that stock and are free to do what you please with it. NO back end fees or penalties to pay. No DB pension that you can't access to help pay for your first house. Travel on WJA mainline?...Absolutely with no strings attached. Your the first to check in for your the flight and your the first to get on...you're not going to get bumped by a mainline guy at the last minute. Profit share?...yup...calculated from the entire WJA profit and not just from the q400 operation...Hmmm, any other start up companies,jet or prop, offering the same? Nooope. How does the above compare against Jazz....pretty good I would say. The best part is intent. The biggest debate in our pilot group is how not to screw our future co-workers in the new venture. Can the same be said for the pilots at AC and Canadian 20 plus years ago? The present Leadership and BOD get it as well. They and we, the pilots, want to get this right and we want it to be profitable and the best way to accomplish that is to have an engaged pilot group. Does that mean we have to pay the same wages as a Jazz Captain? Nope, won't work just as it didn't work to pay an Air Nova Captain the same wage as an AC Dc-9 Captain flying the same routes.

It's ok to be a naysayer and say what we're doing is wrong. I'm OK with that because in 1996 a lot of people said the same thing about WestJet pilots and their compensation package. Hmm, many years later and here we are...life is pretty good!

[Jastapilot]

...life is pretty good!

correction! Life is still pretty good.

[neophyte]

What is Air Canada paying the Sky Regional guys? How does it compare to WJ Lite?

Why would Air Canada renew its seat purchase agreement with Jazz when they have this cheaper option available? Especially considering the bad blood regarding 757s and Thomas Cook, etc?

Are Canada's regionals going to look like those south of the boarder?

Should every new competitor into the regional market pay what Jazz plays????

Am I talking in my inside voice?

[guyindasky]

No official numbers on what the 80% is gonna be but sounds like $75k for the left and $45k for the right seat to start. Does that seem so unreasonable? Sunwest/North Cariboo pay right around that to start on the Dash 8, Porter pays what $72k, maybe a bit more? Did we ever figure out what the Dash would pay at Jazz if it wasn't blended with the other types?

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airl ... ation.html shows year 1 at $77 and $41 hourly. If pay is going to be based on min credit of 78.5 hrs a month, the numbers aren't too far apart. Then tack on some profit share and ESP

Looking for a different range of experience, 1500-3500 hrs to fill the seats. When I had 1500 hrs I was barely making over $30k/yr, $45k a real schedule and a solid career path would sound good to me, all for just 1 interview.

You can only pay a crew a certain percentage of what a plane is gonna make, what should that number be? I'm all for paying a guy a bunch of money, but it has to be realistic.

Its been said before though, its a vote on an idea/concept, nothing about working conditions/contracts. I'd like to see the benefits and ESP be the same as the rest though, I'm sure that'll be a hot topic when an agreement is forged.

I guess we'll see where things go from here tomorrow.

[guyindasky]

may that post should have been in the Q400 thread, ah well.

[whiteguy]

Sunwest/North Cariboo pay right around that to start on the Dash 8, Porter pays what $72k, maybe a bit more?

Cariboo starts at $39k for the Dash.

[guyindasky]

For the right seat i'm guessing, and that's more then AC is gonna pay you to start unless that's changed recently.

[Donald]

Its been said before though, its a vote on an idea/concept, nothing about working conditions/contracts.

Bingo.

The "vote" means absolutely squat and I for one would be shocked if it was a "no".