any FTU's in ontario that have ice certified aircraft in their fleet for ifr training?

Not sure but Perimeter in Winnipeg sure is. I did some training there in the fall of 2011

how did you like perimeter?

Ottawa Aviation Services has a deiced Seneca 2 which will be FIKI, assuming

1) all the deice gear works

2) they have TC approval to operate in cloud

3) training in forecast known icing is permitted by OAS.

Big Pistons Forever wrote: 2) they have TC approval to operate in cloud

I've been out of flight training for a few years so I apologize if this is obvious, but an FTU requires TC approval to operate in cloud?!

KK7 wrote:

Big Pistons Forever wrote: 2) they have TC approval to operate in cloud

I've been out of flight training for a few years so I apologize if this is obvious, but an FTU requires TC approval to operate in cloud?!

Yes. Just like any other commercial operation. Examine your OC carefully.

Are you speaking of being authorized for IFR operations? Or is there something I am missing specifically regarding clouds, as in flying IFR but not in cloud?

0

BPF or SSU

If you have a CAR's reference or can elaborate more, I am curious too.

KK7 wrote:Are you speaking of being authorized for IFR operations? Or is there something I am missing specifically regarding clouds, as in flying IFR but not in cloud?

You're on the right track. In reality its a long chain of stuff that starts with 406.03 which in short states you must comply with the conditions as laid out on your FTUOC. One of these conditions (under the general conditions of all FTUOCs) is laid out in 406.13(f):

(f) the flight training unit shall, when required to establish and maintain a training manual in accordance with section 406.62, conduct training in accordance with that training manual;

Guess who approves of that manual? Guess what's in it?

This it should be noted really gives TC wide and sweeping powers to control FTUs. This lump of paperwork along with the MCM is a current issue with FTUs across the country.

If you delve deeper into the rabit hole you eventually will get to the requirements that must be specified for the training manual under 426.61, the pertinent bits being (i), (j) and, (k).

Thanks for that. I haven't been involved in an FTU since 2006. I took a meander through the CARs regarding FTUs and there seem to be a few changes.

It's amazing what TC thinks the CARs empowers them to do.

Shiny Side Up wrote:You're on the right track. In reality its a long chain of stuff that starts with 406.03 which in short states you must comply with the conditions as laid out on your FTUOC. One of these conditions (under the general conditions of all FTUOCs) is laid out in 406.13(f):

(f) the flight training unit shall, when required to establish and maintain a training manual in accordance with section 406.62, conduct training in accordance with that training manual;

Guess who approves of that manual? Guess what's in it?

This it should be noted really gives TC wide and sweeping powers to control FTUs. This lump of paperwork along with the MCM is a current issue with FTUs across the country.

If you delve deeper into the rabit hole you eventually will get to the requirements that must be specified for the training manual under 426.61, the pertinent bits being (i), (j) and, (k).

Those regs/standards apply only to schools that operate an integrated commercial program or have a sub-base. I don't think that's a very long list in general, and I can say with certainty that it isn't in SW Ontario. An FTOM is not a basic requirement of an FTUOC holder. My company uses a document that contains the same information as a flight training ops manual, but since that's not a required part of our operation (no satellite, no active integrated program) it has a different name and requires no TC approval.