Ottawa Area Flying School

[Colonel Sanders]

there is very little turnover of instructors

That works both ways. An FTU with high instructor turnover
might not give you the best training, because the instructors
have less experience, and students really don't like having to
switch instructors a bunch of times. That might be the best
place to get hired as an instructor, but ...

Someplace with low instructor turnover is probably going to
have more experienced instructors. That's probably going to
make you happy as a student/customer.

[Scout44]

I guess I'm a little late from the original post. But I'll add a +1 for both RFC and Cornwall. My experience at RFC was always as a renter, with no training except for initial check rides on the 172 and 8KCAB. So I can't comment on the quality of the ab initio instruction, but I trust that it's good based on my impressions of the instructors that I met there. And Simon is a sharp and very reasonable CFI.

I completed my multi at Cornwall last summer, and had a good training experience there, so I'll likely return for the IFR when I decide to do that.

[tonyhunt]

I can only speak of RFC, ...

2 Caveats however- A) No Twin. and B) By virtue of their environment, there is very little turnover of instructors. If your intention is to work there, it could be a while.
I made my decision, but you'd have to decide what would be best for you and your path.

I did all my training, licenses and rides at RFC. As an aircraft owner, I did the PPL and IFR first, then the CPL and Instructor rating much later when Simon suggested I had experience that I could pass on. We did the instructor rating using my Husky, Simon had a blast in the front seat while I flew all the lessons from the back seat. I waited a year after doing the rating for an instructor spot to open up. It was worth it, the atmosphere was what I wanted as a mature PPL student and now as a part-time instructor.

I solved the twin problem by buying my own. I did the multi and initial multi-IFR rides in Cornwall, and I also vouch for them.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

How many hours does it take to get a multi engine rating these days?

[Colonel Sanders]

CAR 421.38(3) doesn't specify any minimums:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... htm#421_38

(3) Multi-engine Class Rating - Requirements
(a) Skill
An applicant for a multi‑engine class rating shall successfully complete a flight test as pilot-in-command of a multi-engine class aeroplane, in accordance with Schedule 7 “Flight Test for the Issuance of a Multi-Engine Class Rating – Aeroplane” of Standard 428 - Conduct of Flight Tests.

So, when your instructor thinks you're good to go,
and you can pass the test, you get a new sticker
for your licence booklet.

IMHO it really helps people to fly a retractable single
before they jump in a twin. That way they can learn
about constant speed prop, maybe fuel injection,
cowl flaps, retractable gear, etc a little less frantically.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

When I did mine it took five hours plus the one hour check ride.

Did three hours in a Cessna 310 F and two hours in an Apache.

[pelmet]

if you want to get it done: Cornwall.

Did a multi-IFR renewal last summer at Cornwall on the Redbird sim. If you want to get one done quickly, this worked out great. One training flight to learn all the buttons to push at the right time and then a ride which was just like the training session. More of a get it over and done with for experienced guys looking for a quick get it done on short notice. I really chose them because I had not done any training there before.

[Colonel Sanders]

it took five hours plus the one hour check ride

That sounds about right, .. If someone is familiar with
constant speed props, cowl flaps, retractable gear etc from
flying something like a Mooney or Bonanza or Comanche,
then grabbing two throttles intead of one should not pose
much of a challenge.

If someone is not familiar with any of the gizmos and gadgets,
well, now is when you're going to learn about them. They
really don't have anything to do with multi-engine flying, though.

Multi-engine training to me is pretty much learning what
happens (and what to do) when an engine fails. I wrote
this as ground school for multi-training a while back:

http://www.avweb.com/news/airman/184438-1.html

Did three hours in a Cessna 310 F and two hours in an Apache.

That's a little weird. You probably could have done it faster
if you had stuck to one type (eg Apache - god I hated pumping
up the gear when that left engine failed) but you probably
learned more by flying two types.

The 300/400 series Cessnas IMHO are "real" airplanes - they
aren't (4 cyl) trainers like the twin comanche, apache, seminole
or duchess.

In addition to the additional power of the bigger 6 cyl engines,
the 300/400 series Cessnas have a far less forgiving wing than
the Apache/Aztec which is a good lesson for a new multi-engine
pilot to learn. After he learns it, of course, install VG's

[Chuck Ellsworth]

That's a little weird. You probably could have done it faster
if you had stuck to one type (eg Apache - god I hated pumping
up the gear when that left engine failed) but you probably
learned more by flying two types.

It is really quite simple C.S. the 310 went unserviceable so they switched me to the Apache.

[rflake]

Hi Everyone,

I am 23, I have a college and university degree and now I want to become a pilot.

I am in a very similar position to OP trying to decide on a school in the Ottawa area to do my commercial training.

I have been in contact with Simon from RFC and he said that they are currently not authorized to do commercial training but should be again by early next year. I would prefer to do my training at an uncontrolled airport to avoid unnecessary waiting around so RFC is appealing. The lack of a twin is a bit of a bummer though.

I dont think ofc or oas have twins anymore.

Is this true? OAS claim to have a Seneca II on their website. OAS seems like a good school however they quoted me a total cost estimate of 65000 for the integrated ATPL which seems a little high?

I am from Ireland and making a decision from this distance is a bit difficult so I would appreciate any help you guys can give with choosing a school. Of course I will go visit the schools before making a final decision but I'd like to get as much info as possible before.

p.s. Cornwall is not an option for me as its too far from Ottawa where I will hopefully be moving to

Thanks,
Rob

[DanWEC]

For commercial training OAS is a good choice. The training is highly detailed and regimented. Consequently, The students do a bit more work than at other schools, including a full operational flight plan for every single flight. There is a good PA34 twin as well for group 1/multi, and a g1000 da40 for group 3 or other instrument time. The airport is busy and you are right on the field with all the airlines, which means lots of frequency congestion and vectoring in the controlled airspace around YOW. This of course is good for practice, but can be annoying and cause delays that take away from training sometimes. You'll also pay a bit more at the end of the day than at a smaller school it a smaller airport.
As for the ATPL program. It is a challenge. If you aren't cut out for it you will know quickly. It's a fast paced, full time airline oriented program with 760 hours of ground school. If it was around when I did my training I would have chosen it for sure. You may still end up with only 250 hours at the end like everyone else, and don't expect a job to be handed to you, but man will you ever know your stuff at graduation!

It's a shame about RFC temporarily losing CPL training privileges. It's just paperwork BS. They are a great club with top notch instructors and CFI. They have sent a few students to OAS for CPL.

[Colonel Sanders]

Too bad you can't go to Cornwall. That's their
thing - three Seminoles. Uncontrolled airport,
no wasted expensive time.

[ReserveTank]

full time airline oriented program

How many of their instructors have airline experience?
Which airline will hire you for paying for 760 hours of ground?

[xysn]

As others have mentioned unless you have a really good reason to move to Ottawa (permanently?) there are cheaper places in Canada / US for flight training.

There's cost of living, cost of flying out to the practice area, cost of taxiing, the NavCanada fees, lots to think about.

OAS has that Air Georgian partnership for interviewing but that might not be useful depending on where you want to fly professionally.

Also depending on your social network while you're here ... OAS doesn't have much in the way of club / social facilities.

[rflake]

Thanks for the replies so far.

As others have mentioned unless you have a really good reason to move to Ottawa (permanently?) there are cheaper places in Canada / US for flight training.

I wouldn't be moving permanently, just for training. I am looking at other Canadian cities also. Considerations for me include (aside from a good flight school of course) quality of living, weather, and living costs. Ottawa seems like a nice, mid-sized city with some decent flight schools (I have never been to Canada so am basing this entrely on what I read on the interwebs which is probably a terrible idea ). And yes, I will visit the schools in person before I do choose. I've looked into Vancouver area schools also, the main issue there for me is that I will be starting in Winter so a lot of rainy weather might be a setback during the initial VFR stuff.

The cost is definitley a factor, but I have money set aside specifically for my training so I would be willing to spend a little more money IF it means I will receive higher quality training.

OAS has that Air Georgian partnership for interviewing but that might not be useful depending on where you want to fly professionally.

I would like to get my first hour building job in Canada, be that bush flying, instructing or with a regional carrier. I'm flexible though so within reason I will go wherever there is work available.

[Big Pistons Forever]

If you don't have to do your training in Ottawa you should consider other areas of the country.

I have some experience with the Victoria Flying Club in Victoria BC. They refreshed their fleet with newer airplanes and have several senior instructors including one with recent corporate jet time to provide advice and mentorship. In addition Victoria has generally mild winters and more VFR days than anywhere else in BC.

Finally your post suggests that you are not living in Canada. If you are not a Canadian citizen/landed immigrant than getting the right to work in Canada as a low time CPL is almost impossible.

[Colonel Sanders]

you should consider other areas of the country

This time of year, you should seriously consider Florida.

Cheap, and you can fly pretty well every day all winter
long in your shirtsleeves.

Florida in January:




Number 4 (Gary Ward) is slightly behind, but that's
ok, he's a lot better pilot that I'll ever be. I don't
even mind that the once tried to kill me

[yowflyer23]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread. Just curious to see if anyone might be able to share their recent experiences at RFC and OFC. I'm looking to rent a 150/172 for pleasure and maybe to work as a part-time instructor at some point when I have enough cash saved up to do the rating. I'm leaning towards flying at RFC as it's close to home (could bike there in 15 mins) and I assume that flying out of YOW would mean longer taxi times, delays, etc.. Are there any benefits to renting at OFC that are worth considering? My only experience at OFC was to do an IPC two years ago and it was an overall pleasant experience. Never been to RFC.

[nutlord]

I had a poor experience at OFC, felt like the instructors had no interest in my growth as an aviator and were just there for the hours. Bear in mind that this was 3 years ago, so things may have changed. Lax attitude, minimal pre-flight briefings, no post-flight debrief. I wouldn't go back. I haven't flown with RFC, but I visited it and it seemed a bit better. RFC was too far of a commute for me so I ended up going doing my PPL at CARP and had a good experience with them. From what you've said, I'd go for RFC.

[yowflyer23]

I had a poor experience at OFC, felt like the instructors had no interest in my growth as an aviator and were just there for the hours. Bear in mind that this was 3 years ago, so things may have changed. Lax attitude, minimal pre-flight briefings, no post-flight debrief. I wouldn't go back. I haven't flown with RFC, but I visited it and it seemed a bit better. RFC was too far of a commute for me so I ended up going doing my PPL at CARP and had a good experience with them. From what you've said, I'd go for RFC.

Thanks nutlord. Seems to check out with a lot of the opinions that I've read so far.