Walk Away

[BingBong]

So will you walk away from this guy...AGAIN


Labour Minister Lisa Raitt named Michel Picher to arbitrate the dispute between the airline and the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, the union that represents 8,600 of the airline's machinists and baggage handlers.

A separate release from the Department of Labour also named Douglas Stanley as the arbitrator in the dispute between the airline and its 3,000-member pilots union, the Air Canada Pilots Association or ACPA.

"Picher will bring focus to this process and that his experience will be invaluable in settling the outstanding matters," Raitt said of the first appointment. "I urge the parties to extend him their full cooperation."

On Stanley's naming, Raitt said she "urges the parties to work together and extend their full cooperation to [him]."

In both cases, the ministry release noted that the candidate was suggested by both the airline and the corresponding union.

Both unions have been without a collective bargaining agreement since earlier this year, but the possibility of a job action by either union was made impossible when lawmakers moved to pass back-to-work legislation in March.

Both men are very well versed with labour relations issues and will be tasked with rendering a decision on the final offers presented by both parties.

Stanley has been practicing law since 1974 and was also a law professor at the University of New Brunswick. He also served both New Brunswick's Deputy Minister of Labour and CEO of WorkSafe New Brunswick.

Picher's career includes serving as the vice-chair of the Ontario Labour Relations Board and teaching law at the University of Ottawa.

[Norwegianwood]

It's what acpa does best...............................

[Raymond Hall]

So will you walk away from this guy...AGAIN
Labour Minister Lisa Raitt named Michel Picher to arbitrate the dispute between the airline and the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, the union that represents 8,600 of the airline's machinists and baggage handlers.and teaching law at the University of Ottawa.

So, then, is your post addressed to members of the IAMAW?

It would be helpful if those who wish to dredge up the history have at least a minor grasp of the historical facts, including the facts related to the announcements that they quote.

[crj_705]

Hey Bing Bong!

So glad you brought this up...Why should this round of 'binding arbitration' be any different to ACPA than the one they walked away from 15 years ago whether it's with Justice Stanley or Justice Picher.

Show me the money, show me the money...(insert Dr. Evil voice)

[yycflyguy]

So will you walk away from this guy...AGAIN
Labour Minister Lisa Raitt named Michel Picher to arbitrate the dispute between the airline and the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, the union that represents 8,600 of the airline's machinists and baggage handlers.and teaching law at the University of Ottawa.

So, then, is your post addressed to members of the IAMAW?

It would be helpful if those who wish to dredge up the history have at least a minor grasp of the historical facts, including the facts related to the announcements that they quote.

Ray, we agree on something! It must be armageddon!

FWIW, Stanley was on BOTH the AC and ACPA short list for arbitrators submitted to the government.

[Fanblade]

The historical issues aside I would say yes.

Both the IAM and ACPA have made it abundantly clear to everyone that they believe the present process illegal. They have both challenged the B2W legislation in court. They will likely both launch injunctions when they feel the timing is best attempting to stop implementation.

I think it is pretty clear. If given the opportunity to walk from whatever comes of this process both parties will.

Ultimately AC needs a deal they can move forward with. But shoving a deal down their employees throats will have counter productive results on multiple fronts. Issues ranging from increased labor strife to an unknown outcome in court. All leading to uncertainty moving forward. Investors hate uncertainty. Ultimately AC needs to reach an agreement with labor. Something that provides to the company what they need moving forward. Something that ends the uncertainty of continued litigation. Something the employees can endorse.

I suspect this process will produce just that. If it doesn't summer will be a melt down

[Rockie]

Ultimately AC needs to reach an agreement with labor.

Air Canada doesn't agree with you. They along with our government prefer the 1850's sledge hammer approach to labour relations.

STFU and get back to work peasants.

[WF9F]

Hey Norwegian Wood,
You should get your head out of that green jiggly thing you posted.This is for IAMAW not pilots at Air Canada.
Your pretty in tune with the industry ,NOT.
All you on here who are not with mainline just can't wait to get a swing at ACPA. Pretty pathetic , you worry about your problems and we will do the same.

[Fanblade]

Ultimately AC needs to reach an agreement with labor.

Air Canada doesn't agree with you. They along with our government prefer the 1850's sledge hammer approach to labour relations.

STFU and get back to work peasants.

Rockie,

No. CR wishes it were that easy. Sadly its not.

There will be no return for shareholders. No brand worth any value. No company if revenue dries up. If he moves too fast.

Unfortunately in a very sad way.......deep sigh.......he has to deal with the peasants. Or summer will be a meltdown.

Poor guy.............probably needs a bone-us

[Norwegianwood]

Hey Norwegian Wood,
You should get your head out of that green jiggly thing you posted.This is for IAMAW not pilots at Air Canada.
Your pretty in tune with the industry ,NOT.
All you on here who are not with mainline just can't wait to get a swing at ACPA. Pretty pathetic , you worry about your problems and we will do the same.

Hey WF9F. I was referring to this from the original post

"A separate release from the Department of Labour also named Douglas Stanley as the arbitrator in the dispute between the airline and its 3,000-member pilots union, the Air Canada Pilots Association or ACPA."

And you should mind your manners! As for being in tune, acpa sets the tune for walking away not me. Pretty sad tune too.
The one who should be yanking his head out is you as you are obviously a card carrying member of the high and mighty!!!!

NW

[Fanblade]

It's what acpa does best...............................

Considering how we got to this juncture? Government interference. Stripping of legal rights. Biased legislation.

Sounds like we have the right group for the job then.

Dam right both groups will walk from this draconian legislation if given the chance.

By the way. Wasn't around. But you may have a point here. Did CALPA governance in the mid 90's not do basically the same thing. Did the CALPA BOD, which AC pilots were a minority, ram a process down the AC pilots throat?

Cause when you pull that kind of BS? Expect people to react like you are attempting legalized theft.

Just like now with the present legislation. No more than legalized theft.

[WF9F]

Hey woody,
I am a card carrying member of the high and mighty and don't you forget it.
Not only would I stand and walk for AC pilots but for all pilots in Canada even the likes of you with your attitude towards ACPA.
Just what would you do if you were in our situation? I would love to know.

Also what are you refering to when you said thats what we do best?

[Norwegianwood]

Hey woody,
Also what are you refering to when you said thats what we do best?

Well whiskey foxtrot, in plain English it's "walk away" from it's obligations to it's members and the courts, do some research and you too will be mortified by the numbers. Just the line up at the FP60 door speaks volumes on representation and discrimination......... bfn

[WF9F]

Ahh , thats the wagon your on.

Enough said.

[Norwegianwood]

Ahh , thats the wagon your on.

Enough said.

Last word!

[duranium]

I could have posted this on any of the last threads durind the previous 6 months but here goes

You people, pilots in particular, are the upmost pathetic group of human beings that ever walked upon this part of North America. To think that you will even get 50% of what you hope for is a pipe dream, even 10% is wishfull thinking. What you and the rest of Ac employees negotiating for a contract are about to do is negotiate yourselves directly into unemployment. What really hurts is the fact that you will hurt big time many if not most retirees and all the other people that depend on AC for a living, many of whom are your relatives, be it direct parents or behond but YOU, do not give a S_I_, never did, never will.

I, for one, have ZERO, repeat ZERO sympathy for you that beleive that you are owed the world, even a small something. You are ONLY, repeat, ONLY owed what the market will bear and at this time and right now, that is not a lot, not even a hill of beans worth.

You are too imbued with yourselves to even grasp the reality of the times, and I wish that you actually get what is coming to you, and that is nothing but an unemployment line. If I could beat some sense into each of you, I would but the law of the land does not permit such an act.

You will most probably hurt many tens of thousands of people but you do not care because you are the ME, MYSELF and I generation, generation that cannot see behond the end of said nose and generation that cares only for oneself.

What I would like to add is that I hope you all burn in hell for what you are about to do and if this last phrase is not permissible, I will be edited for it, so be it, but this is a reader's honest opinion. I prefer being in a pigpen than around your presence

[CanadianEh]

I could have posted this on any of the last threads durind the previous 6 months but here goes

You people, pilots in particular, are the upmost pathetic group of human beings that ever walked upon this part of North America. To think that you will even get 50% of what you hope for is a pipe dream, even 10% is wishfull thinking. What you and the rest of Ac employees negotiating for a contract are about to do is negotiate yourselves directly into unemployment. What really hurts is the fact that you will hurt big time many if not most retirees and all the other people that depend on AC for a living, many of whom are your relatives, be it direct parents or behond but YOU, do not give a S_I_, never did, never will.

I, for one, have ZERO, repeat ZERO sympathy for you that beleive that you are owed the world, even a small something. You are ONLY, repeat, ONLY owed what the market will bear and at this time and right now, that is not a lot, not even a hill of beans worth.

You are too imbued with yourselves to even grasp the reality of the times, and I wish that you actually get what is coming to you, and that is nothing but an unemployment line. If I could beat some sense into each of you, I would but the law of the land does not permit such an act.

You will most probably hurt many tens of thousands of people but you do not care because you are the ME, MYSELF and I generation, generation that cannot see behond the end of said nose and generation that care only for oneself.
s
What I would like to add is that I hope you all burn in hell for what you are about to do and if this last phrase is not permissible, I will be edited for it, so be it, but this is a reader's honest opinion

You're either an idiot or ignorant, but probably both.

Go educate yourself before posting such atrocities.

If anyone should be blamed for the company not having enough money and retirees being at risk of losing some of their pension it's Robert Milton who enriched himself and his friends with their money. Don't you dare blame the hard working employees who actually generate the revenue you a-hole.

[CanadianEh]

Duplicate

[CanadianEh]

Triplicate

[Zip Tie]

I could have posted this on any of the last threads durind the previous 6 months but here goes

You people, pilots in particular, are the upmost pathetic group of human beings that ever walked upon this part of North America. To think that you will even get 50% of what you hope for is a pipe dream, even 10% is wishfull thinking. What you and the rest of Ac employees negotiating for a contract are about to do is negotiate yourselves directly into unemployment. What really hurts is the fact that you will hurt big time many if not most retirees and all the other people that depend on AC for a living, many of whom are your relatives, be it direct parents or behond but YOU, do not give a S_I_, never did, never will.

I, for one, have ZERO, repeat ZERO sympathy for you that beleive that you are owed the world, even a small something. You are ONLY, repeat, ONLY owed what the market will bear and at this time and right now, that is not a lot, not even a hill of beans worth.

You are too imbued with yourselves to even grasp the reality of the times, and I wish that you actually get what is coming to you, and that is nothing but an unemployment line. If I could beat some sense into each of you, I would but the law of the land does not permit such an act.

You will most probably hurt many tens of thousands of people but you do not care because you are the ME, MYSELF and I generation, generation that cannot see behond the end of said nose and generation that cares only for oneself.

What I would like to add is that I hope you all burn in hell for what you are about to do and if this last phrase is not permissible, I will be edited for it, so be it, but this is a reader's honest opinion. I prefer being in a pigpen than around your presence

[Stu Pidasso]

duranium:

It is unfortunate you have no clue, what you're talking about.

The Pilots at AC earn LESS (I will talk slow here for you,) than their counter parts at Westjet.

While everyone else at AC, namely the unskilled labour and the countless layers of middle management clowns, earn considerably more.

The opportunities for experienced Pilots, is growing daily. I don't see the same being said for Ticket Agents, Ramp Rats, Gate Support (management clowns) or F/A's.

We had recruiters standing outside the Toronto Crew Room daily, until the office monkeys chased them away.

So duranium, bring it on.

[rudder]

duranium:

The Pilots at AC earn LESS (I will talk slow here for you,) than their counter parts at Westjet.

Bull. Compensation is a combination of the total payroll cost to the company. That would include wages, employer pension expense, employer benefit expense, and payroll taxes. Add it all up and then make the comparison.

And I won't even comment on the effect of productivity on payroll but the applicable metric would be average hard time per pilot per month. Clearly WJ benefits from the single equipment type. But Wj does not incur any soft credits and efficiency is only lost to vacation ad training. Plus WJ pilots do significant amounts of cash cleared overtime.

Lastly, if AC pilots felt that they could trade their wares elsewhere for a better deal then they would. Not many leaving early.

[rudder]

duranium:

The Pilots at AC earn LESS (I will talk slow here for you,) than their counter parts at Westjet.

Bull. Compensation is a combination of the total payroll cost to the company. That would include wages, employer pension expense, employer benefit expense, and payroll taxes. Add it all up and then make the comparison.

And I won't even comment on the effect of productivity on payroll but the applicable metric would be average hard time per pilot per month. Clearly WJ benefits from the single equipment type. But Wj does not incur any soft credits and efficiency is only lost to vacation and training. Plus WJ pilots do significant amounts of cash cleared overtime.

Lastly, if AC pilots felt that they could trade their wares elsewhere for a better deal then they would. Not many leaving early.

[Stu Pidasso]

Rudder:

The AC Pension Plan is 4 Billion Dollars in the hole and the company is looking for a 30% reduction in benefits.

For the 320 / EMB Pilots, they would be miles ahead at WJ. The difference in income, more than compensates for belonging to a bankrupt pension plan.

The rush for the door is in full swing. We have had numerous short notice applications for early retirement. The ONLY thing keeping some of us here is being tied to the Pension Plan, as bad as it is.

Most Pilots I have talked to are looking to get out. It will all depend on what comes from this Arbitration.

Flight Ops is desperately short staffed and it is going to get a lot worse. They are hiring at max rate and Pilots are "no showing" their start date.

The word is out - $37,000 per year to join the Apex of Aviation in Canada?

....right!

Dear Westjet:

[Localizer]

The "ME, MYSELF and I" generation is/was the baby-boomers .. The same generation that doesn't wanna retire. The same generation that believes everyone else with a "sense of entitlement" should wait until they've had more then their share at the table.

Ahhh .. just wanted to clear that up .. now you may continue.