NOTAM for CYYC starting June 4, 2012 must have reservation #

[Woxof38]

120724 CYYC CALGARY INTL
CYYC WEF 12 JUN 04 0001 AMEND PUB: PRO: PEAK HOURS: ADD: ALL ARR
MUST OBTAIN A RESERVATION NUMBER FM CALGARY AIRPORT AUTHORITY PRIOR
TO FILING A FLT PLAN. RESERVATION NUMBER MUST BE NOTED IN COMMENTS
SECTION OF FLT PLAN. ADDITIONAL INFO AVBL AT WWW.YYC.COM

More info can be found here too http://rapt.yyc.com/

[Shiny Side Up]

You get the idea sometimes that they've forgotten that their business is making it so airplanes will come to their airport rather than drive them away.

[looproll]

as if flow and crossing times weren't enough...

[Elliot Moose]

Wow! Thanks a heap for posting that one! It saved my company (and ME) a whole world of hurt tomorrow. Turns out we were in the system, but didn't have a process in place to deal with the reservation numbers.

EM

[704type]

Why don' they start with option #1 ... get a US controller in that knows how to handle traffic, then the rest of them could all take the day off.

[slowstream]

I hate flying into YYC, I would fly into YYZ any day over YYC.

[parrot_head]

Why don' they start with option #1 ... get a US controller in that knows how to handle traffic, then the rest of them could all take the day off.

I love how some pilots have zero understanding as to how things work at airports that they frequent (assuming you have flown into Calgary). The reality is, Calgary is a painful airport to operate. Crossing runways trying to be operated like parallels and a steady demand for these runways for taxing, departing, and arriving aircraft.

[True North]

as if flow and crossing times weren't enough...

Um, I think the whole idea behind a reservation system is to reduce/eliminate flow and RTAs.

[arctic navigator]

Why don' they start with option #1 ... get a US controller in that knows how to handle traffic, then the rest of them could all take the day off.

I love how some pilots have zero understanding as to how things work at airports that they frequent (assuming you have flown into Calgary). The reality is, Calgary is a painful airport to operate. Crossing runways trying to be operated like parallels and a steady demand for these runways for taxing, departing, and arriving aircraft.

How about these 4 little words… Land and Hold Short… I know it wont help using 16 and 10 but there is absolutely no reason why 95% of the airport can not land 34 and hold short 28… That or stack them 3 miles in trail on the ILS 28 and split the landings up onto 28 and 25 and deal with the taxi consequences...

[amraam]

It doesn't help when one of Canada's major airlines won't accept 'Land and Hold Short' because it is in their SOPs that they are not authorized to...

amraam

[BTyyj]

Calgary's winds are constantly changing, and it seems like helicopters are going in and out of the south east and west corners once or twice every hour. I'd imagine with all this traffic, as well as their usual setup of using 16/34 and 10/28, it's extremely hard sequencing in aircraft, especially during the busy times.

[Boundary Layer]

It doesn't help when one of Canada's major airlines won't accept 'Land and Hold Short' because it is in their SOPs that they are not authorized to...

amraam

On top of that, alot of manufactures (Embraer being one) does not have the proper certification for land/hold short operations (Canada only?). ATC is not authorized to allow them to use LAHSO, even if the SOP's would allow them.

[HeadingAltitudeSpeed]

How about these 4 little words… Land and Hold Short… I know it wont help using 16 and 10 but there is absolutely no reason why 95% of the airport can not land 34 and hold short 28… That or stack them 3 miles in trail on the ILS 28 and split the landings up onto 28 and 25 and deal with the taxi consequences...

Short answer? Because Transport Canada does not permit LAHSO operations on about half of the aircraft landing YYC. But of course why let that pesky little legal requirement get in the way?

As for stacking them closer, next time you are waiting to depart, time how long the arrivals take from crossing the threshold until completely exited the runway. Then add the time it take from take-off clearance until an aircraft is airborne. These runway occupancy times should give you the answer you are looking for. Remember that the arrival on final is barreling down on the runway at about 3 miles a minute.

[smelvin]

Question....does the "Peak Hours" part of this notam mean that there are peak hours published somewhere, which specifies when the new reservation system applies, or is it a 24 hr thing...??

Is this new system an ATC creation, or like YYZ, is it an Airport Authority thing?

Cheers

[C-FABH]

"Blame the controllers at NavCanada. The FAA controllers can move airplanes faster"
"Blame the operator. They refuse to land and hold short, which would make it easier for traffic"
"Blame the manufacturers. They haven't certified the aircraft to perform LAHSO"
"Blame Transport Canada. They are the ones who aren't permitting LAHSO"
"Blame the airport. The layout makes it difficult to move traffic quickly"

Some excellent finger pointing. Good thing you guys aren't trying to screw in a lightbulb.

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Thanks for this thread....finally something useful on AvCanada!

John

[oates76]

I believe the reservation website has times bookable from 1500 to 2100 so that must be considered peak.

Question....does the "Peak Hours" part of this notam mean that there are peak hours published somewhere, which specifies when the new reservation system applies, or is it a 24 hr thing...??

Is this new system an ATC creation, or like YYZ, is it an Airport Authority thing?

Cheers

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Arinc Direct shows reservations required 22z to 03z daily

[Gbax]

Why don' they start with option #1 ... get a US controller in that knows how to handle traffic, then the rest of them could all take the day off.

I love how some pilots have zero understanding as to how things work at airports that they frequent (assuming you have flown into Calgary). The reality is, Calgary is a painful airport to operate. Crossing runways trying to be operated like parallels and a steady demand for these runways for taxing, departing, and arriving aircraft.

What..... Like maybe laguardia, they move more traffic, more efficiently.

[DeuceEng]

KLGA and YYC are completely different intersecting runway airports. Firstly, the point where the runways intersect allows aircraft to cross the intersection quicker on one end, and on the other end the operation is slower. The second big factor is that YYC is a couple of thousand feet higher and so the aircraft performance is not the same.

Furthermore, LGA has intense flow control most of the time. The numbers are higher simply because the demand is there all day, instead of certain hours at YYC. Beyond that, the operation will run as close to minimums as CARs will allow.

[Aeronaut7]

YYZ - 417,757 movements per year, 5 runways (triple and parallel)
YUL - 217,484 movements per year, 06-24 parallels and 10-28
YVR - 296,476 movements per year, 08 - 26 parallels and 12-30
YYC - 252,985 movements per year, no parallels, intersecting at mid point.

How many airports move 250,000 aircraft per year without parallels?

Runway Occupancy Time(ROT) is critical, airline operators need to apply HIRO practices.

[BTyyj]

London Gatwick is the world busiest single runway airport, and it reported 242,498 movements in the 2011/2012 year. Based on that, the number of aircraft movement at YYC is really quite impressive.

[looproll]

as if flow and crossing times weren't enough...

Um, I think the whole idea behind a reservation system is to reduce/eliminate flow and RTAs.

Nope. . Testa! The reservation system is completely independent of flow as it is a YYC airport authority thing and flow is NavCanada. Do you really think this will change flow much?

Now the question is, if you have a certain arrival time with the reservation system, how is that going to work with changing flow times which go by departure time and are issued by NavCanada TMU?

[looproll]

I think it has 'gong show' written all over it

hope they can iron it out

[True North]

as if flow and crossing times weren't enough...

Um, I think the whole idea behind a reservation system is to reduce/eliminate flow and RTAs.

Nope. . Testa! The reservation system is completely independent of flow as it is a YYC airport authority thing and flow is NavCanada. Do you really think this will change flow much?

Now the question is, if you have a certain arrival time with the reservation system, how is that going to work with changing flow times which go by departure time and are issued by NavCanada TMU?

Nope. The reason there is flow is because of too many people showing up at the same time. Now, if you don't have a reservation, go away. Everyone with a reservation should find much less delay.