Upgrade from a 727 SO..

[ho-driver]

Hello folks,

Just a quick question for those in the know... Let's say you get on with CJ or KFC and fly sideways for a couple of years or more then upgrade to FO on the 727 (upgrade time is not an issue for me)... Where do you go from there assuming you don't quite have the PIC requirements for an ATPL when you get hired? Do they have any PIC 'under supervision' programs to help guys move into the left seat ?

I totally understand that, for some of you, this is not on of the most favorable career move and that People have different opinions on the subject. However, considering my family and social circumstances a move like this is very favorable to me. Airlines are not the end goal for me rather it is lifestyle and being close to family and friends and spending the rest of my career with one of the above operators is something I wouldn't mind at all.

Thank you.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Hello folks,

Just a quick question for those in the know... Let's say you get on with CJ or KFC and fly sideways for a couple of years or more then upgrade to FO on the 727 (upgrade time is not an issue for me)... Where do you go from there assuming you don't quite have the PIC requirements for an ATPL when you get hired? Do they have any PIC 'under supervision' programs to help guys move into the left seat ?

I totally understand that, for some of you, this is not on of the most favorable career move and that People have different opinions on the subject. However, considering my family and social circumstances a move like this is very favorable to me. Airlines are not the end goal for me rather it is lifestyle and being close to family and friends and spending the rest of my career with one of the above operators is something I wouldn't mind at all.

Thank you.

SO time doesn't count toward a higher license so in your scenario you would have to start with around 2500 hours of eligible FO time to be in the ball park for the ATPL and then the company would have to have an approved PICUS program which I do think exists at either KFC or Cargojet. The other issue is the clock is ticking on the Trisaurus. Morningstar has already moved from the 727 to the 757 so no more SO's there, and the existing 727 operators will have to get into more fuel efficient equipment (all 2 crew airplanes) sooner rather than later, which would likely leave a guy who did not have an ATPL in a not good place......

[X-Savior]

Agreed. 10 Years Ago I would say this would still be a great move but JUST starting out on a 2-7 now as SO is VERY risky. You may put yourself a few years behind as from what I understand there is not many places left that SO times even means anything (Possibly if you go for Cathay Pacific SO). It is up to you but it is like investing in BETA when VHS was already dominant on the market (or HD-DVD and Bluray).

It is your career but I would tread carefully on these Dinosaur's.

[esp803]

I have a friend who recently accepted a position as an S/O with the aforementioned company. I'll share the (very limited) wisdom I tried to pass on to them with the Internet.....

10 Years Ago I would say this would still be a great move

I would agree, the mighty 27 is bound to be retired relatively soon, and if it happens to be before you get your F/O upgrade, you are SOL my friend.

Personally I became a pilot because I love flying... sitting facing sideways in an airline every night is pretty much my idea of the seventh level of hell... I've heard of "rapid" advancement from SO to FO... but these may be just urban legends. When I started my CPL I knew I wanted to fly for an airline... after flying both IFR and bush flying I can say without a doubt I will never be flying an airliner. Try other avenues... Taking a position as an SO is like taking a ramp position, it may help you out... if however you get laid off the time is essentially wasted in your career. Not to say that you won't meet great friends... just career wise.

With that being said, if the schedule was good (M-F 9-5) and the pay was good (65k+) I would jump on it (lifestyle not metal). I highly doubt that is the case...

E

[ho-driver]

Thank you guys for the helpful responses. The idea of retiring the 727s came to mind too, however I really can't see them retiring all of their 727s in the next 2 to 3 years but if I do get an interview I will for sure ask that question. I think 10 years is more like it though.

I do have some operational multi/ifr time (northern operations, unprepared runways) under my belt already and could probably get on a turbo-prop as an FO if I look hard enough but would really like to move close to home (Southern Ontario) if possible.

Thank you

[Magnetron]

I have recently been interviewed for a SO position, which I (not too) unfortunately did not get. For CJ at least, I am most certain most of the SO guys are low timers like moi and are from Seneca. Not sure the reasoning for these but that seems to be the case right now. Some of my colleagues who interviewed also got offered the job and some others also got offered consideration for next hiring pool.

I never got the chance to ask about retiring the 727s during the interview though. I was too busy getting asked life questions

But same as you, lifestyle was also my reasoning in the first place for applying there.

[skypirate88]

I have been on the 27 since late last year and can honestly say that this is not like taking a ramp position as one poster mentioned. I have never seen a ramp ad offering the salary I make with the schedule I see. I was in a similar position to the OP. I wanted to stay in southern Ontario and couldn't afford the pay cut to take an FO position even outside of Ontario.

One thing to consider is that most of our flying occurs at night. Depending on the person that can be pretty tough. That said, we get plenty of time off to enjoy the sun.

Unfortunately I can't offer much help regarding your PICUS question because it wasn't a concern for me as I left my previous position with sufficient PIC time. I can say that we have several new FOs that have been upgraded with relatively low time (1000 hours TT) so it definitely happens.

I can't say much for CJ but with the size of fleet Flightcraft has I am sure you won't be seeing the 27 disappear before you get upgraded. The fleet renewal process will not happen over night.

Do what you feel is best for you and your family. I am happy I took the 27 SO position and can't see myself leaving my company. The way I see it today, this is my career company. PM me if you want more information.

Cheers

[ikilledkenny]

I have several friends who went the SO route, all with various companies, and feel that an SO position CAN be an excellent career move for a low timer, provided it’s with a good company. Rapid advancement can and does happen if you’re in the right place at the right time. For others, it can take years.
Just be sure to do your homework as to which company(s) to avoid and I’m sure you’ll be happy. I had a close friend invest many years with one of the aforementioned companies, (felt it was their ‘career company’) only to get ROYALLY screwed through no fault of their own, and end up on the street with a bunch of useless SO time. 727 operators are NOT created equal.