Signed Off a PPL Yesterday

[Colonel Sanders]

Sat down at a big table, carefuly filled out all the
forms, endorsed his student pilot permit with his
PPL privileges. Not my student, but gave him 3
pieces of advice, for his first flights as a PPL:

1) always take off with full tanks. The only time
you have too much fuel is when you are on fire,
or hit the trees at the departure end of the runway.
Lean the mixture. Fuel gives you time, and time
gives you options.

2) Don't fly in challenging wx. Check the TAFs for
forecast low cloud/vis, or strong winds. Radar for
Cb's.

3) Get and learn how to use a GPS. You would be
foolish to not avail yourself of such an incredibly
accurate and economical navigational technology.
Too bad nothing about such an important tool is
taught during PPL training, but that's the way it is.

[YYZSaabGuy]

Good advice. And if like many of us he doesn't get the chance to hone his proficiency by flying as often as he'd like, he might consider a few compensatory suggestions:
1. Review critical speeds and emergency procedures frequently so they remain committed to short-term and long-term memory;
2. Maintain stick and rudder skills to flight test standards by practicing. Cross-countries are fun but hours at cruise, while good for navigation and decision-making, doesn't maintain the ability to properly fly steep turns, slow flight, stalls, performance takeoffs and landings, diversions, forced approaches, and all the other air work that was a part of the PPL training;
3. Brief all departures and arrivals out loud whether or not PAX are on board. Overkill? Maybe, but I think that thinking through in advance how an engine failure or conflicting traffic will be managed will help build muscle memory that will hopefully kick in if and when it's needed;
4. If you rent from a club, use their currency checkrides to get an impartial assessment as to the level of your flying skills. Try and use a different check pilot each time to get exposed to a variety of techniques and thinking. Make a point of learning something new every time; and
5. Try to get out and fly as often as possible to new airports, both controlled and uncontrolled, in different types of weather (while staying both legal and safe) and with benefit of careful advance flight planning.

[Colonel Sanders]

One thing I find disappointing about PPL training is the
excessive emphasis on short/soft/rough/obstacle
takeoffs and landings. The training for these are often
commenced when the student is barely proficient at
normal takeoffs and landings.

And they are always simulated from a long, paved
runway. The irony is that the student, after all this
silly practice, is forbidden from actually doing anything
real on an actual grass surface.

What a complete waste of training.

What I want to see a PPL do, for a landing:

1) normal. Establish aircraft on runway centerline
and glidepath and precisely control airspeed with
touchdown within first 500 feet of runway without
abusing the nosewheel

2) crosswind. Keep the wing down during the flare
and put it on the runway centerline, avoiding excessive
airspeed.

It's bizarre how many checkouts I do on recent PPL's
that have spent all their time doing stupid simulated
short/soft/rough/obstacle takeoffs and landings, but
have not mastered the two basics (normal and crosswind)
above.

[Pavese]

One thing I find disappointing about PPL training is the
excessive emphasis on short/soft/rough/obstacle
takeoffs and landings.

SNIP!

And they are always simulated from a long, paved
runway. The irony is that the student, after all this
silly practice, is forbidden from actually doing anything
real on an actual grass surface.

SNIP!

To those new pilots sitting in front of the monitor, heed Mr Sanders words here and discover the truth of what he says.

Not many hours after my PPL I took an instructor and got trained/checked out on a real grass runway which was not part of the PPL requirements. I can tell you that you do not appreciate the written word in any way compared to doing it for real, especially the take-off. It happens in slow motion compared to a paved strip and you actually get to experience the various steps, nose up, gain speed (not accelerate...) lift-off in ground effect, pitch down to accelerate to climb speed and climb-out. Very distinctive steps compared to a paved strip take-off.

Been back a few times to enjoy & gain more experience. Use that license to learn which is exactly what that freshly minted PPL is.

D

[cj555]

Great thread. I have recently started my PPL (currently have 1.9 hrs in my log book).

I have a few questions that perhaps I could ask in this thread?

1) Any tips on how to improve cockpit communcation between the instructor/student?
Because I'm new, I find the radio chatter can be overwhelming, and cause communication in the cockpit to be more difficult.
Sometimes it is hard to follow what my instructor is saying because the chatter on the radio. For example when he is explaining a maneuver (and there is radio chatter in the background), I don't catch every word he says. Usually I can follow what he is saying because I always do the required reading before hand. It seems that there is so much radio traffic, it isn't always feasible to only talk only during silent periods etc. I am looking for tips to handle this communication barrier, or perhaps with time/experience I will become more accustomed to the radio chatter, and it will be less of a barrier?

2) Any other words of advice for someone just starting off on the road to my PPL would be much appreciated.

3) I realize that I am getting ahead of myself with this question, but I am looking at the hours after I complete my PPL:
What is the best way to learn/practice/master cross wind landings? I want to be able to take people up flying, and not be worried that the wind might come up, and catch me off guard etc. I feel that it is very important to be able to safely handle cross wind landings (of course with the limits of the aircraft).

[Colonel Sanders]

What is the best way to learn/practice/master cross wind landings? ... worried that the wind might come up

That is an excellent question. Let's look at a scenario. You are flying to an airport with an east/west runway, but a cold front blows through and there is a howling crosswind. What to do?

Well, first of all, you should have spotted the frontal passage and the associated wind from the local TAF's and GFA. You really shouldn't have been surprised in this way.

But you're there. Most people would struggle with the howling crosswind and maybe wreck the airplane. You know what I would do? Divert to another airport that has a north/south runway.

Remember my advice to the new PPL: lots of fuel. Lots of options. You should never, ever paint yourself into a corner where you don't have an "out", because, for example, you only have 20 minutes fuel left. That's terrible planning, and a great pilot is a not just a great stick, he's a great planner.

Funny story to tell you. Last summer, we NOTAM'd our airport closed for a model aircraft convention. It's quite something - model helicopters hovering inverted, tiny jets zipping around the place. I quite enjoyed it.

My job as airport operator was to monitor the UNICOM for the usual weenies that never check the NOTAMs and want to breeze on in. I had a couple aircraft call up, and I told them the airport was closed, and did they check their NOTAMs? Funny how those aircraft never responded.

But there was one weenie that called up, and announced that he was inbound. I told him the airport was closed. He said he needed gas. I told him that Brockville, 20 miles south had gas. He said that he didn't have enough gas to get to Brockville. Holy sh1t. Well, I called up the guy running the model aircraft show, and he blew the emergency horn, everything shut down, and this weenie taxiied in, all smiles and absolutely no shame for his poor planning, the regs he broke, and the annoyance he caused everyone. Turned out he was a senior COPA director and he sat down with the president of COPA for an imprompu meeting of the COPA poo-bahs. Looked to me like an impromptu meeting of weenies, but ...

A little planning goes a loong way. Always stay 'way ahead of the aircraft.

within the (crosswind) limits of the aircraft

Back to crosswinds. It will be a very long time (if ever) that the crosswind limits of the aircraft are a factor. For 99% of the private pilots in Canada, their skills are the limiting factor. And you expand them slowly - take on more and more challenging winds as time goes by.

Most people don't do that - they live with their artificially-imposed limits, and never expand their personal envelope, which I find sad.

Personally, I couldn't care what the wind is doing, in any airplane. Main thing is to do your lap belt up tight, because when it gets bumpy, you're going to move around inside the aircraft and smash your head on the doorframe. That's my biggest problem with windy days. But it takes years of effort to earn that, and most people can't be bothered to put out the effort. Similarly, I can't play guitar worth sh1t because I can't be bothered to practice. Meme chose.

[dave_091]

Crosswind landings, You will learn to love them with practice.

I remember shortly after I received my PPL I went flying on a nice sunny day in the prairies. The wind when I took off was 12 gusting 17 from the south on a 07-25 runway. I could have choosen either runway to use because the wind was almost perfectly perpindicular to the runway. I remember taking off, I wasn't fully prepared for the wind and I was blown a bit to the north side of the runway ( not enough experience yet to anticipate all the wind gusts). Anyways, I went fying to the practice area and did what all new low time PPL's do when no one wants to fly with them, practice slow flight, stalls, steep turns, etc. The only stuff a low time PPL knows what to do.
Then came time to land the plane. I had to pass through controlled airspace to get back to where my regional airport was and when I reported leaving controlled airspace the gave me the current winds 18 gusting 26 ( I remember it was a woman controller and she emphasized 26!!!). I knew it was going to be the most challenging landing that I had yet to experience. I knew the winds were going to get stronger as the day progressed so it didnt come as a surprise to me.
So there I am, lined up with the threshold being blown all over the place. The first attempt I was within 15 feet of the runway but I was all over the map, nothing seemed right..... overshoot. Second attempt, more of the same, I made it a bit lower but I still couldn't bring her onto the runway... overshoot. Third one, it wasn't an Ideal approach but it felt pretty good considering my skills a the time. Landing on 07 my right whell touched first and bounced. I didn't anticipate for a gust and I was blown to the left side of the runway but I managed to bring her back down and landed the plane without incident. At the time it took every ounce of effort and every bit of what little experience I had to rely upon to bring the plane down safely. It was a challenge.
For the new pilot with 1.9 hours time reading this, if something doesn't seem right, overshoot. They will drill it into your head thruout your training and take the advice to heart. You can always do a overshoot and attempt anything again and again. Don't force something that doesn't feel right.
Strong crosswind landings in light aircraft = sporty and fun with the proper experience.

[Colonel Sanders]

18 gusting 26

A student pilot, facing an 18G26 direct crosswind,
needs to find a different runway, IMHO. Most PPL's
aren't up for that.

You just don't need to get on the ground that badly,
that you need to risk wrecking the aircraft. Divert to
a different airport that has a runway more into wind
(eg wind 30 degrees or less off the runway heading).

People think that great stick & rudder flying is what
defines a great pilot - Bob Hoover is the quintessential
archetype - but frankly the very best pilots are often the
ones that make the right - often the toughest and
most unpopular - decisions.

Anyways, here's the very best stick & rudder flying:

[dave_091]

Ive sen that video a half dozen times and it still never ceases to amaze me. Pouring a cup of ice tea back handed so that he can get a better shot with a camera... Amazing.

[Genetk44]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!! That's fantastic!!!!

[Colonel Sanders]

Strong crosswind landings in light aircraft = sporty and fun with the proper experience

PS "Strong crosswind landings in light aircraft" is not an lvalue.

Corrected syntax:

Strong crosswind landings in light aircraft == sporty and fun with the proper experience

[Shiny Side Up]

One thing I find disappointing about PPL training is the
excessive emphasis on short/soft/rough/obstacle
takeoffs and landings. The training for these are often
commenced when the student is barely proficient at
normal takeoffs and landings.

Many instructors unfortunately miss the point of the Soft and Short excersises, and that is to improve the student's ability with normal and crosswind landings. The other bad part of this is the flight test also unfortunately misses this point as well focusing too much on the details of the procedure rather than the two main things that the two excersises are supposed to get across: How to land softer and how to make them more accurate.

... but
have not mastered the two basics (normal and crosswind)
above.

Lets face it though, no one is going to "master" those for a long time after their PPL. If becoming of that level was a requirement for the PPL then the PPL would take a lot longer. That being said though, I've found that I tend to get students closer to that ideal before I send them solo (which means longer time to solo) but then which helps speed up the rest of their training so they end up being shorter until completion.

[cj555]

Crosswind landings, You will learn to love them with practice.

I reported leaving controlled airspace the gave me the current winds 18 gusting 26
I knew the winds were going to get stronger as the day progressed so it didnt come as a surprise to me.

So there I am, lined up with the threshold being blown all over the place. The first attempt I was within 15 feet of the runway but I was all over the map, nothing seemed right..... overshoot. Second attempt, more of the same, I made it a bit lower but I still couldn't bring her onto the runway... overshoot. Third one, it wasn't an Ideal approach but it felt pretty good considering my skills a the time. Landing on 07 my right whell touched first and bounced. I didn't anticipate for a gust and I was blown to the left side of the runway but I managed to bring her back down and landed the plane without incident. At the time it took every ounce of effort and every bit of what little experience I had to rely upon to bring the plane down safely. It was a challenge.
For the new pilot with 1.9 hours time reading this, if something doesn't seem right, overshoot. They will drill it into your head thruout your training and take the advice to heart. You can always do a overshoot and attempt anything again and again. Don't force something that doesn't feel right.
Strong crosswind landings in light aircraft = sporty and fun with the proper experience.

That is exactly the type of scenario I am worried about!

That makes sense that overshooting is the best course of action if the approach doesn't feel right. Even if you have to overshoot 3 or 4 times until you get it right, that is better then wrecking the aircraft. I guess it is very important to keep a clear head, don't panic and stay focused so you can make the rational decisions even in times of high stress.

If the winds are too strong, diverting might be a good idea. But you need to make sure you have the fuel in order to give yourself these options. Always flying with full tanks could save your life.

I hear that handling these difficult crosswind landings comes with experience. But my question is, how do I safetly gain experience to improve my crosswind landing skills? I don't want to hazardously fly into high cross wind landings, with inadequate experience, as a method of learning. Do most pilots gain their experience with cross wind landings from the few times when they are forced to land in them? Or should I find days with high cross winds, and go up with an instructor to practice?

[Colonel Sanders]

should I find days with high cross winds, and go up with an instructor to practice?

Exactly! Mind you, get a good instructor, that has you landing only on the upwind main, and driving down the runway with the other tires in the air, with the aileron full over, and some power on.

[Colonel Sanders]

Picked up my July 2012 AOPA magazine.

On page 22:

After 55 years as a pilot, 47 years as an active CFI and pilot examiner, I see pilots who constantly chase the airspeed on final, can't take off of land in a crosswind, can't hold a heading using visual references and can't keep the wings level without an attitude indicator. The average private or commercial pilot applicant seems to think the rudder pedals are there to rest their feet on, except when taxiing.

Try really hard to NOT be one of those applicants. And I'm sorry you waste so much time and money on useless simulated short/soft/rough/obstacle takeoffs and landings - that you won't ever use, before you even master the basics - for the sake of checkmarks in your PTR.

[cj555]

should I find days with high cross winds, and go up with an instructor to practice?

Exactly! Mind you, get a good instructor, that has you landing only on the upwind main, and driving down the runway with the other tires in the air, with the aileron full over, and some power on.

That sounds like a great drill. So you're basically doing a touch and go with only the upwind main on the runway. My goal is to really try to master this. I want to enjoy flying, including cross wind landings. I just hope I can find a good instructor who will really teach me this. Thanks for the tips.

[xysn]

One thing I find disappointing about PPL training is the
excessive emphasis on short/soft/rough/obstacle
takeoffs and landings. The training for these are often
commenced when the student is barely proficient at
normal takeoffs and landings.

As a 40 hour PPL student I am glad that the veterans also have this opinion.

[Colonel Sanders]

All that time, money and effort spent on short/soft/rough/obstacle
takeoffs & landings might be worthwhile if:

1) the students were already competent at normal and xwind
takeoffs and landings, and

2) the students could actually operated on grass when their
very expensive training was completed.

However, most of the time #1 isn't the case, and #2 is never
the case. PPL's require specialized training to safely operate
from grass after getting their licence. It would be funny if it
weren't so horribly inefficient and wasteful.

[YYZSaabGuy]

Sorry, but I think some of the comments here on performance takeoffs and landings are wide of the mark.

During my PPL training, I was required to display proficiency in "normal' takeoffs and landings before moving on to short field and soft field techniques. I am pretty sure the same holds true for most PPL students. To say that performance techniques are taught when students are "barely proficient" in normal takeoffs/landings is probably accurate, but then again that applies to pretty much every maneuver and air exercise in the PPL syllabus: by definition, a student is still "studying" and therefore newly/barely proficient. So what? As Shiny pointed out, the purpose of learning performance takeoffs and landings is two-fold: to learn the techniques themselves for use when required, but also to improve proficiency with normal procedures.

So...I don't agree that time spent learning, and maintaining proficiency, on simulated short/soft/rough/obstacle takeoffs and landings is a waste of either time or money. I think it enhances basic aircraft handling proficiency - those stick and rudder skills we keep hearing about on here , and makes for a more competent pilot generally.

[Colonel Sanders]

simulated short/soft/rough/obstacle takeoffs and landings

Why not do the real thing? At least where I am, grass strips are plentiful
and safe. Heck, at my airport there are two, in addition to the paved runway!

[YYZSaabGuy]

Why not do the real thing? At least where I am, grass strips are plentiful
and safe. Heck, at my airport there are two, in addition to the paved runway!

Great idea, but many FTUs unfortunately restrict their rental aircraft to paved runways. Simulated, while not as good as actual, is still better than not at all, no?

[Beefitarian]

I have only landed on grass once and at the time didn't see the big deal but you have to ask..

Why do FTUs have a "Pavement only" restriction? Must be kind of different.

[slam525i]

I have only landed on grass once and at the time didn't see the big deal but you have to ask..

Why do FTUs have a "Pavement only" restriction? Must be kind of different.

My guess is that grass runways can have big hidden holes, more risk of wildlife incursion, more likely to have obstacles, the instructor nor student will have done it for real, and because FTUs are extremely risk adverse. Besides, how many of the "I'm waiting to fly big iron" types care about soft field experience?

Personally, I'm glad my instructors took me to real grass strips, often with nice tall trees on both sides and each end. Given the choice of a crappy, narrow pavement or a grass strip, I'll take the grass. In a tail dragger, it'd be a no brainer, almost regardless of cross-wind. (Never landed a tail dragger on pavement, but then I only have like 3 hours. I want more!)

[Beefitarian]

I'd be much more concerned with taking off from grass with my current lack of getting behind the yoke.

I can probably get a somewhat reasonable flare with a little power added to keep it light for touch down. Likely I would be easily able to get the yoke back to reduce the weight on the take off roll. I think there are more subtle things that could be missed that are important on take off.

I just had expectations of it being way different. It ended up being different but not in a stark contrast way. That is probably something that causes problems for those of us not doing it enough to get a good feel for it. We do a couple then get sloppy treating it like pavement until we get in trouble.

Also the strip I used was well maintained and nice and long with no obstacles.

[Grantmac]

Provided you aren't dealing with a short field, grass (especially wet) has to be the most forgiving surface possible.
The only real gotcha is that you can get into a place where you can't get out of. A heavily loaded aircraft on small tires can take a long time to build speed on a soft field.
But keep in mind that grass doesn't automatically mean the field is soft, neither does dirt or sand.

I don't think I'd want to teach anyone TW on anything but a grass surface, the learning curve is steep enough.

-Grant