Career Question

[JungianJugular]

Hello Aviators,

I am looking for honest insight and advice regarding a possible career change. Like many of you, I've been passionate about aviation growing up as a kid and still am to this day.

Every time I drive by Pearson I get a sick depressing feeling in my chest that I didn't chase my dream.

With my feelings now out of the way (I'm an ENFP on Myers Brigg, just found out lastnight), I'd like to ask the career aviators who are flying for the big leagues or those who are flying as their main career:

1. What is your most honest/blunt advice to a 29 year old wanting to do this professionally? Is it worth it, or would I just be better off doing it as an "expensive" hobby with a PPL?

Thanks,

- JungianJugular

[North Shore]

Why not 1/2 chase the dream, and work towards becoming an instructor? That way, you leverage some of your teaching skills (you must have some, to have made it for 5 years in teaching..) and keep the nice, secure job, with a pension, summers off, 2 weeks at Christmas and Easter, wages and benefits...

It's a huge crapshoot at any age, and a large financial commitment to get your licences - and there's no guarantee of getting a secure job afterwards, let alone a well-paying/treated one.

Aviation is a service industry - you are working when everyone else wants to travel, and are off when they don't..

[human garbage]

I would say it depends largely on how badly you want to fly. It is the key to tolerating the crap that goes with being a career pilot (at least in the beginning). I've seen too many people come and go because they thought it would be a 'cool' job. Nope that won't cut it. Flying has to be the be all, end all for it to work in my experience.

Next consideration is wife and kids. If you have them, I would say no to the career change. It may be possible if your wife makes a mint of course, but other than that it will be pretty hard for you to make ends meet. Aviation will be just as hard (if not harder) on them as it is on you... Kids will not understand. You don't want them to cry every time you put on your uniform because they know Daddy will be leaving.

I made the change at the same age you are. I won't lie its been a hard road. Learned that I hated dealing with pax along the way, which has severely limited my career path. Only in the past few years have I been able to surpass what I was making as a carpenter. The hours still suck, but at least I can afford to live. My first full year in aviation I lost 30 pounds due to poverty (friends called me a 'white Biafran' and almost didn't get my Cat I renewed). Make the rent/bills or eat was the choice. I've almost bought the farm more times than I'm comfortable with due to crappy equipment. The stress of both has given me a ton of grey hair and shaved years off my life no doubt. You have to ask yourself: Is it worth it to you to go through that? You likely will have to.

I do love flying so I have made it through. It was close at times though. The choice is up to you... Be honest with with yourself.

I think North Shore has a good idea. Be a pro pilot (instructor) and keep a decent job at the same time. Best of both worlds!

[fish4life]

if you can try find a flight school that teaches cadets for the summer as they will always need a hugh influx of instructors but normally lay them off for the winter, which would work perfect with being a teacher

[JungianJugular]

Why not 1/2 chase the dream, and work towards becoming an instructor? That way, you leverage some of your teaching skills (you must have some, to have made it for 5 years in teaching..) and keep the nice, secure job, with a pension, summers off, 2 weeks at Christmas and Easter, wages and benefits...

It's a huge crapshoot at any age, and a large financial commitment to get your licences - and there's no guarantee of getting a secure job afterwards, let alone a well-paying/treated one.

Aviation is a service industry - you are working when everyone else wants to travel, and are off when they don't..

For $50,000+ thousand that I'll have to lay down to become an instructor I might as well go all the way!

[JungianJugular]

Next consideration is wife and kids. If you have them, I would say no to the career change. It may be possible if your wife makes a mint of course, but other than that it will be pretty hard for you to make ends meet. Aviation will be just as hard (if not harder) on them as it is on you... Kids will not understand. You don't want them to cry every time you put on your uniform because they know Daddy will be leaving.

I made the change at the same age you are. I won't lie its been a hard road. Learned that I hated dealing with pax along the way, which has severely limited my career path. Only in the past few years have I been able to surpass what I was making as a carpenter. The hours still suck, but at least I can afford to live. My first full year in aviation I lost 30 pounds due to poverty (friends called me a 'white Biafran' and almost didn't get my Cat I renewed). Make the rent/bills or eat was the choice. I've almost bought the farm more times than I'm comfortable with due to crappy equipment. The stress of both has given me a ton of grey hair and shaved years off my life no doubt. You have to ask yourself: Is it worth it to you to go through that? You likely will have to.

Did you have a wife and kids when going through training?

[flyinthebug]

I was 27 when I decided to listen to that little voice inside me. I, like you had a good job but one that didnt fufill me in any way. I guess you could say I hated my job. Again, like you I had a deep rooted desire to defy gravity. I spent much of my youth watching planes take off and land, and rode my bicycle several miles just to watch the show.

My path took some commitment and I endured some very rough financial times during flight school and then for a couple yrs after I graduated. By 33 I was well established in my career and starting to make decent $$$.

My advice is simple...If you feel depressed driving past the airport, you need to seriously consider taking the plunge. It is better to regret the things you did, then to regret the things you never tried. You will never know if you were cut out for this industry until you make the commitment to try. There is plenty of opportunity in this industry right now, and it is expected to continue for a few years (retirements etc).

Im sure with a few years of teaching under your belt, your union may well assist you in getting a 1 yr leave of absense. That way if things arent working out for you, or you find commercial aviation to be a bit overwhelming, then you have the safety net of your teaching job still in place. In my instance, I didnt have that safety net and my boss said if I quit I quit and there was no turning back. That is one bridge in life im looking back on and VERY pleased that I choose to burn it.

I started my Commercial career at exactly your age and wouldnt trade one single minute of my career for anything else. I have defied gravity for almost 5000 hours and 18 years...and I cant imagine how shitty my life would have been had I NOT decided to quit my job and take up flying as a career. You dont need to be a rocket scientist to get through it, and it is not an easy course by any stretch...but something tells me if your still feeling the draw to this industry with such intensity, your gut is trying to tell you something and my advice is follow it and take a chance! You`ll always regret not trying if you dont. Nothing ventured nothing gained kinda thing. Best of luck with your future endeavours and I hope you take the opportunity to follow your dreams.

Thats my 2 cents. Fly safe all!!

[Xander]

Do you have it in your guts, this overwhelming feeling that the place for you in this world is up there, among the clouds?

Do you have this feeling that you CANNOT do anything else for a living, that this is your biggest passion?

If you answered yes to those questions, I think you got your answer.

From there, the first step for you would be to call a flight schol and book a fam flight, just to see if you like it. Ask the instructor to let you fly a little.

After this first flight, you'll probably know for sure if this is for you.

Good luck!

[The Mole]

Reality check....

Working as professional pilot sounds better than it really is

How many times as teacher have you worked 14 hours a day for 42 days straight
Could you imaging working every canadian summer with no time off
How about most weekends and holidays
How many times as a teacher have went to work at 2am
Lived in shit hole communities like fort mcmurray, northern alberta for that matter
How many students have tried to kill you. Passengers have tried to kill me.
Do you like hotel rooms. you better
Better yet, how about a tent or shitty mice filled camp
How many times as a teacher have gotten frost bite. Winter covers go on, winter cover come off, all day long.



Unless you really really and i mean really want to become pilot. You should not do it. It will rip you from comfort zone of home / friends. And your life.

But I've never worked for airline or flown an airplane.


Good luck

[Krimson]

Reality check....

Working as professional pilot sounds better than it really is

How many times as teacher have you worked 14 hours a day for 42 days straight
Could you imaging working every canadian summer with no time off
How about most weekends and holidays
How many times as a teacher have went to work at 2am
Lived in shit hole communities like fort mcmurray, northern alberta for that matter
How many students have tried to kill you. Passengers have tried to kill me.
Do you like hotel rooms. you better
Better yet, how about a tent or shitty mice filled camp
How many times as a teacher have gotten frost bite. Winter covers go on, winter cover come off, all day long.



Unless you really really and i mean really want to become pilot. You should not do it. It will rip you from comfort zone of home / friends. And your life.

But I've never worked for airline or flown an airplane.


Good luck

Reality check...

This is not even close to true. Sure you can seek out some job that makes you miserable, or you can find something that you can enjoy. Don't forget you have a choice where you go.

I find it very unlikely to find an operator pushing 14 hours 42 days straight. Sure you can get some weird hours, but I find it very frequent that I am off and find a friend to share a drink while everyone else is working. It is a different schedule, but that is all. The longer you stick with it, the better it will get. You don't have to live in a shithole either. What some people seem to not comprehend is you have a choice in where you want to spend a few years of your life! A tent/mice filled camp...never once. Hotels...yes, lots...and I mean lots. But that was my choice and I don't see it as a bad thing. I am in one right now actually, have been here for about 2 weeks alone, met some friends who live close by, had the girlfriend come meet me, and today watched a movie and ordered in a pizza. Will be here for a few more weeks and then on to the next one. I get to travel, see some cool places, sometimes alone, sometimes with someone. My next job will be different, but I will decide how I would like to spend the next few years when I am ready for a change.

And don't forget that it is not really work, I don't see it as work, not for one day. I look forward to each flight. That is something in itself worth pursing if you have the same urge. As flyinthebug properly puts it, it is better to regret the things you did, then to regret the things you never tried.

[Cat Driver]

It is interesting how our enthusiasm for flying changes over our lifetime.

The one thing I really regret was I did not retire five or ten years sooner than I did.

Looking back there was only two flying contracts I had in those years that sort of made up for those years of being away from home to often.

[co-joe]

You'd think that instructing meant "going all the way". But you could do a bare bones commercial and instructor's rating without the Multi IFR saving what??? 10 grand? Teach flying for 2 summers or do the leave of absence thing as mentioned, at a busy school and then if you want to go the rest of the way do the multi and IFR. (and do it cheaper because you work there)

Heck any flight school would be lucky to have an actual teacher with an education degree who knows how to teach, as a flight instructor. Most instructors are there because life won't let them go up north or there were no other jobs available. Very few go into it because they loved teaching.

The colleges would love a guy like you. Instructor's license and an education degree and old enough to be a mature experienced teacher. My god man you have great college faculty teacher written all over you. There are some decent wages at colleges, with benefits, and a great lifestyle.

You could also be a sub to back up your shit salary in the lean years. Now that I have a trade I can't believe people go into aviation without a parachute so to speak. I would never ever put all my eggs in one basket again, least of all one that costs 40 grand to get into (not including opportunity costs).

Go for that discovery flight but remember, in aviation, not unlike most drug habits, the first one is free...

[JungianJugular]

Hey guys,

Thanks for contributing and providing feedback.

I went up for not one, but TWO discovery flights at separate flight schools on the same day. After leaving the first I was embarrassed to go back and ask for another intro flight, so I ended up driving to another airport. After the first one I felt so thrilled and wanted to get up again. Boys, I didn't lose my virginity as a teenager. I officially lost my virginity today.

Two words can describe flying:

Holy Shit!

I loved it. Besides being able to takeoff, do turns, climbs, descents and a landing, I have to say everything felt natural.

You guys seriously have amazing jobs being able to do this. Despite all the industry woes that are brought up, you guys are truly blessed in this short life we have to call this hobby a JOB.

I hope my career path aligns with yours.

Best wishes, safe landings and losing your virginity every time you feel the thrill.

[dazednconfused]

Reality check....

Working as professional pilot sounds better than it really is

How many times as teacher have you worked 14 hours a day for 42 days straight
Could you imaging working every canadian summer with no time off
How about most weekends and holidays
How many times as a teacher have went to work at 2am
Lived in shit hole communities like fort mcmurray, northern alberta for that matter
How many students have tried to kill you. Passengers have tried to kill me.
Do you like hotel rooms. you better
Better yet, how about a tent or shitty mice filled camp
How many times as a teacher have gotten frost bite. Winter covers go on, winter cover come off, all day long.

While this can happen, i dont think it is the norm. My two instructors from my PPL days: One went to CMA right seat, another went to a King Air. CMA led straight to WJ, and the other guy went to flying ATR42's, then 737s. Another buddy worked for a charter operator in the prairies after starting right seat on a navajo out east. Spent a few years there and got on with AirTransat, FO 757, and is a captain today in the middle east on a widebody. Yes, i only know three people who are career pilots, but their path didn't seem all that bad at all. They were very professsional, well dressed, mature, clean cut, and always on the ball. I think this helped them get to where they are today.

[Gannet167]

I think being a school teacher has a fairly standardized path. You get the degree and teacher's certificate, or whatever it's called these days, start as a substitute teacher, then hopefully get on full time at a district and work your way into the subject and grade level you like. Then, you spend 35 years doing that, and retire. It's very standardized and the path is remarkably similar in every province and at different levels. Unless you decide to get a masters degree, maybe become a principal etc, that's how it goes. Economic down turns generally don't affect teachers, nor do mergers, bankruptcy, unserviceabilities, etc.

Flying is quite different. You could have all the pitfalls that The Mole has cited and then some. You could also finish training and walk into a pretty good position at a good company, making half decent money. You could also join the Air Force. The variables in the economy, regulatory environment, how your individual company is doing, which city and/or country you want to or are able to live in, your personal situation etc. etc. all can mean you either have great opportunity, or you're pretty much screwed. There's a lot of ways to be a pilot - and your mileage may vary.

Given your instructional background, you could also get involved in some aspect of training. I've met a lot of guys that make a great living as consultants, giving seminars, training for ground school exams like CPL and ATPL, or some other form of teaching - as well as being a flight instructor.

On a side note, I personally think that being a teacher is one of the most noble and important professions there is. You're entrusted with the most valuable things in society and get to shape and coach them into hopefully good people. The future is in your hands. It's fairly unappreciated and isn't terribly "sexy" but it's a good job.

[mcrit]

JJ,
I was in exactly your position, except that I was 28 when I made the change. I was a teacher in the Peel District School Board in 1998 when I started training for my CPL and instructor rating. I worked part time as an instructor and did up the MIFR. I kept the teaching job. It worked fairly well, I had summers and weekends to teach flying and the teaching job paid the bills. That way of doing things is sustainable if you don't want to take a huge hit on lifestyle and pay. In retrospect I'd have to say that the flying is pretty fun to.
So, the gist of it is that, yes, a career in aviation is quite within you grasp. PM me if you want to know more.

[ajet32]

1987 31 years old Agriculture graduate from Guelph with a BSc(Agr). Decided that I needed to fly and not sell Ag-chemicals or fertilizer. It was a tough road, I now am a Captain on narrow body jet make a very decent living. I have done the Chief Pilot / management routine and back to line flying. Much better.
If you truly have the desire then go for it, in the long run it will be well worth it and there will be no regrets.

[Duncan Idaho]

I would say it depends largely on how badly you want to fly. It is the key to tolerating the crap that goes with being a career pilot (at least in the beginning). I've seen too many people come and go because they thought it would be a 'cool' job. Nope that won't cut it. Flying has to be the be all, end all for it to work in my experience.

Next consideration is wife and kids. If you have them, I would say no to the career change. It may be possible if your wife makes a mint of course, but other than that it will be pretty hard for you to make ends meet. Aviation will be just as hard (if not harder) on them as it is on you... Kids will not understand. You don't want them to cry every time you put on your uniform because they know Daddy will be leaving.

I made the change at the same age you are. I won't lie its been a hard road. Learned that I hated dealing with pax along the way, which has severely limited my career path. Only in the past few years have I been able to surpass what I was making as a carpenter. The hours still suck, but at least I can afford to live. My first full year in aviation I lost 30 pounds due to poverty (friends called me a 'white Biafran' and almost didn't get my Cat I renewed). Make the rent/bills or eat was the choice. I've almost bought the farm more times than I'm comfortable with due to crappy equipment. The stress of both has given me a ton of grey hair and shaved years off my life no doubt. You have to ask yourself: Is it worth it to you to go through that? You likely will have to.

I do love flying so I have made it through. It was close at times though. The choice is up to you... Be honest with with yourself.

I think North Shore has a good idea. Be a pro pilot (instructor) and keep a decent job at the same time. Best of both worlds!

That sounds like an awfully rough go of it. I haven't heard of anyone else literally starving because of their flying jobs. Or cheating death on a regular basis. I would say ignore this person. I did flight school, took me 5 months to get a ramp job, I did have to move, it was $15 an hour. Then starting flying after another half a year for $33k a year, went up to 38 then 48 then 54 before I left three years after I had moved up. After that I've been pretty employable with comfortable wages. I did good work but I also had good luck.

I don't have advice for you. Make your own decision on the info. If you don't mind moving around to random places and loading bags and stuff it's not that bad or that hard to get started in this business. People are nice and passengers are understanding. I suppose my one piece of advice is to don't try to do it an "easy way." You will absolutely have to move several times. Get it over with and don't be picky. There will be a time for being picky later. When you have something valuable to offer a commercial operation. But when you're starting out they will not see much more of you than having a strong back to offer. But that's something.

[trey kule]

You are a professional teacher..The industry needs you, and needs you to utilize your skills.
Here are my thoughts...take the summer and get your PPL...teach for the winter, and keep current and get your CPL, and, if at all possible, your instructors rating.
Look for an instructor position with one of the cadet training centers next summer...You will get lots of experience, and if it is not near home, you will only be away from home and family for about 6-8 weeks.
Then make the decision as to what you plan to do.....With 500 or 600 hours and at least a class 3, being a mature(r) pilot, You can make a living wage.

Being a teacher has some great benefits..in terms of time off. And lots of flying schools are really busy only on weekends, so part time instructing will keep you current and , if you desire, help with paying for float or multi IF training.
When you get the endorsements you want for the career path you choose, and have a decent number of hours, you will have a great many more opportunities available to you.

Good luck..BTW....your motivation for flying is a great asset ..Something you will understand later when you see those who started flying without any love for aviaiton, but wanted to be an airline pilot.

[YVR Dude]

I was 27 when I decided to listen to that little voice inside me. I, like you had a good job but one that didnt fufill me in any way. I guess you could say I hated my job. Again, like you I had a deep rooted desire to defy gravity. I spent much of my youth watching planes take off and land, and rode my bicycle several miles just to watch the show.

My path took some commitment and I endured some very rough financial times during flight school and then for a couple yrs after I graduated. By 33 I was well established in my career and starting to make decent $$$.

My advice is simple...If you feel depressed driving past the airport, you need to seriously consider taking the plunge. It is better to regret the things you did, then to regret the things you never tried. You will never know if you were cut out for this industry until you make the commitment to try. There is plenty of opportunity in this industry right now, and it is expected to continue for a few years (retirements etc).

Im sure with a few years of teaching under your belt, your union may well assist you in getting a 1 yr leave of absense. That way if things arent working out for you, or you find commercial aviation to be a bit overwhelming, then you have the safety net of your teaching job still in place. In my instance, I didnt have that safety net and my boss said if I quit I quit and there was no turning back. That is one bridge in life im looking back on and VERY pleased that I choose to burn it.

I started my Commercial career at exactly your age and wouldnt trade one single minute of my career for anything else. I have defied gravity for almost 5000 hours and 18 years...and I cant imagine how shitty my life would have been had I NOT decided to quit my job and take up flying as a career. You dont need to be a rocket scientist to get through it, and it is not an easy course by any stretch...but something tells me if your still feeling the draw to this industry with such intensity, your gut is trying to tell you something and my advice is follow it and take a chance! You`ll always regret not trying if you dont. Nothing ventured nothing gained kinda thing. Best of luck with your future endeavours and I hope you take the opportunity to follow your dreams.

Thats my 2 cents. Fly safe all!!

+1

[DareDevil]

I started commercially flying at 27 yrs old myself after working the ramp for 2 yrs up north.... Im still flying, making decent money, enjoying my life and I have a wife who's sticks by me with everyday....I'm 32yrs now , I don't fly for an airline, nor do i want to because Its all about doing what you love.........not how big your airplane is, how fast it goes, or what you think impresses everyone else. all these jobs have ups and downs and ya gotta find one that works for you.

.........my father once told me we live 1 life! Its not about how fast we get to the finish line, its about the ride. All the best to you!

[Duncan Idaho]

... enjoying my life and I have a wife who's sticks by me with everyday....I'm 32yrs now , I don't fly for an airline, nor do i want to because Its all about doing what you love.........not how big your airplane is, how fast it goes, or what you think impresses everyone else. all these jobs have ups and downs and ya gotta find one that works for you.

This guy gets it! +Like

[Lost Lake]

Think about this. 4-6 years of education, 5 years of teaching. You hate teaching, lots of time off, great wages , retirement program and benefits. It took you 10 years to figure this out. That's 1/4 of your career life. Now you think that fllying is blue skies, nice people and being captain of a C150 light is the life! Truth is some of the stories above are true. Include lousy wages for the next 5 or more years, lousy work conditions in and out of the cockpit, days or months away from home, terrifying conditions at times, and blue sky boring at others.

Unless you luck into the left seat in a major, or invest what little extra money you will make wisely, you will reach the end watching friends with cottages retiring at 55, while you keep working to pay down your bills, hoping to be debt free at retirement.

Life time pilots can be whores and addicts, sacrificing everything for that next flight. As you age, the glory gets replaced by the monotiny you feel now, the bitterness in not making the bigs,or losing your family in the pursuit.

I have a very interesting life resume. Been to some very interesting places, done a lot of interesting things. My retired friends, with the new vehicles, florida vacation homes and fancy boats all wish they lived my life. Me, with no money, debt and everything bought used, envy theirs.

The point is, every decision you do is based on todays feelings. They may well change as you get older. Personally, I enjoy teaching and wished I had become a school teacher. Kind of ironic.

Remember, be careful what you wish for. Everything always look greener on the other side.

[peice]

Do whatever you think is right and what will make you happy. Take the advice of the pilots above me and make your own conclusion on what you want to do. I'm in the opposite position. I went through four years of aviation college and was lucky enough to get a job flying right seat for a commuter. It's almost been a year since I've started and I want to get out due to the working conditions, lack of social life, and low pay. These are things that I need in order to be happy but they may not be for you. I will say this though... the flying is amazing. The people that I've met and the experiences that I've had in this short period of time will always be remembered! I've always wanted to fly for as long as I could remember and of course I will have my regrets but in the end I am happy that I've tried it. I will always fly, just not as a main source of income. Take care and goodluck!

[JungianJugular]

Thanks for sharing your insight(s) everyone.

Does anyone have advice on what they would have done differently in their journey to the cockpit? Any lessons learned that you would willing to pass onto a beginner such as myself?

Cheers,

- J