Hello everyone.
I've got another question, but this time regarding dme holds. Is it basically the same thing as holding at a vor station?
Here's a clearance: FZLJ is cleared to hold IB 200 between 10 and 15dme of the MSS VOR.
The whole pod thing, doesn't that only work if i'm heading directly for the station? How would i set myself up to hold between 10 and 15dme IB on 200? I've never done one of these as the aircraft i fly are not dme capable. Any input would be greatly valued!
DME hold entry
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Panama Jack
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Works either heading to or heading from VOR-- normally given when established on a radial or airway. Established on R-200, start your turn at 10 DME, don't take timing, then turn again the reciprocal heading at 15 DME. Holds made easy.
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-President Ronald Reagan
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Typhoon pilot
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centerstored
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Panama Jack
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Here is another little hint straight from the IFR-guerillas that you probably weren't taught in flying school (which is, of course, the reason AvCanada was invented 
). Don't forget that in the real world of flying, if you are given holds you can always ask the controller to give you DME leg lengths. Want to forget about timing and adjusted timing to correct for the winds? Next time he asks you to hold at the VOR, ask him to give you 10 mile leg lengths. That way you turn at the VOR, turn again at 10 DME-- and you can have more time to relax and have time to review your approach plate.
). Don't forget that in the real world of flying, if you are given holds you can always ask the controller to give you DME leg lengths. Want to forget about timing and adjusted timing to correct for the winds? Next time he asks you to hold at the VOR, ask him to give you 10 mile leg lengths. That way you turn at the VOR, turn again at 10 DME-- and you can have more time to relax and have time to review your approach plate.“If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. If it stops moving, subsidize it.”
-President Ronald Reagan
-President Ronald Reagan
if you are referring to the hold discussed here, they did give him distant leg lengths. 5 DME legs.
The initial posting was unclear about the hold clearance, referring to IB 200. That was vague.
Everyone made the assumption that the clearance was the 200 degree radial of the MSS VOR. That initial post would not be a correct clearance, and sounded more like a bearing.
Always remember EFC or depart time. Check fuel, wxx, alt wxx. Manage the cockpit. Hand over control if necessary, or delegate. Even if it is a single pilot operation and TC checker, tell him to get the weather for you, update ATIS, etc. Use the autopilot.
The initial posting was unclear about the hold clearance, referring to IB 200. That was vague.
Everyone made the assumption that the clearance was the 200 degree radial of the MSS VOR. That initial post would not be a correct clearance, and sounded more like a bearing.
Always remember EFC or depart time. Check fuel, wxx, alt wxx. Manage the cockpit. Hand over control if necessary, or delegate. Even if it is a single pilot operation and TC checker, tell him to get the weather for you, update ATIS, etc. Use the autopilot.
centerstored,
Why do you say that entry to a DME hold is always P or D?
If you want to eliminate any entry, it would more likely be Parellel.
-Direct is obvious.
-Teardrop is simple, 30deg left of your outbound heading, right turn to INTERCEPT the radial inbound to the fix.
-Parellel would require you to fly your outbound heading, then left turn direct to the fix. This would be difficult, as the fix is a DME location, however, it is possible by intercepting the radial, rather than flying direct to the fix.
Why would you decide to eliminate the teardrop?
Why do you say that entry to a DME hold is always P or D?
If you want to eliminate any entry, it would more likely be Parellel.
-Direct is obvious.
-Teardrop is simple, 30deg left of your outbound heading, right turn to INTERCEPT the radial inbound to the fix.
-Parellel would require you to fly your outbound heading, then left turn direct to the fix. This would be difficult, as the fix is a DME location, however, it is possible by intercepting the radial, rather than flying direct to the fix.
Why would you decide to eliminate the teardrop?
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bluesideup
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DME Holds
Panama Jack,
If you were to ask ATC to do as you suggested during a TC ride do you think the examiner would allow that or would they make you time it as per a standard hold procedure.
...just thinking out loud here but if you were to exercise PIC authority and the examiner asked you to use timing and you refused under PIC authority can the examiner fail you.
B S U
If you were to ask ATC to do as you suggested during a TC ride do you think the examiner would allow that or would they make you time it as per a standard hold procedure.
...just thinking out loud here but if you were to exercise PIC authority and the examiner asked you to use timing and you refused under PIC authority can the examiner fail you.
B S U
Just a little advise. Always get the upper winds if there are any at the field your ride is at. It will make your holds and approaches alot easier. You can anticipate what the wind will do on your first leg out and correct for it then instead of waiting till it blows you through your inbound, or so far out you're using a huge intercept to get back. Also reference your GPS if it is a NDB hold. Set up the OBS. It makes life alot easier.
Moe,
What does RNAV have to do with anything?
You have to get to the fix first. If you have rnav, great, if you don't you'll have to intercept the radial and track to the dme.
You can do any entry you wish. In the SPECIFIC hold he was talking about, (Hold SW, Radial200 Inbound between 10-15dme, with the aircraft established on r200 at 5dme) you could do either teardrop or parellel. It is right on the boundary, so it's you're preference.
It has absolutely nothing to do with RNAV.
Perhaps you were thinking about an outbound DME hold from that position, which would ofcourse be a direct entry. As in, fly to 15dme, right turn to 020, fly to 10 dme, right to 200.
What does RNAV have to do with anything?
You have to get to the fix first. If you have rnav, great, if you don't you'll have to intercept the radial and track to the dme.
You can do any entry you wish. In the SPECIFIC hold he was talking about, (Hold SW, Radial200 Inbound between 10-15dme, with the aircraft established on r200 at 5dme) you could do either teardrop or parellel. It is right on the boundary, so it's you're preference.
It has absolutely nothing to do with RNAV.
Perhaps you were thinking about an outbound DME hold from that position, which would ofcourse be a direct entry. As in, fly to 15dme, right turn to 020, fly to 10 dme, right to 200.
soon!Why would you have to go to the fix first?? If you're inbound/outbound say on the 250 degree radial, just turn and intercept the radial you want and take it from there. If you intercept it before the 10 mile point outbound, just keep on tracking the 200 out using the parallel entry. If you intercept it after the 10 mile (say at 16 or 14, etc) then track inbound and do a direct. I guess it depends how you're cleared, and where you are at the time.JigglyBus wrote:Moe,
What does RNAV have to do with anything?
You have to get to the fix first. If you have rnav, great, if you don't you'll have to intercept the radial and track to the dme.
You can do any entry you wish. In the SPECIFIC hold he was talking about, (Hold SW, Radial200 Inbound between 10-15dme, with the aircraft established on r200 at 5dme) you could do either teardrop or parellel. It is right on the boundary, so it's you're preference.
It has absolutely nothing to do with RNAV.
Perhaps you were thinking about an outbound DME hold from that position, which would ofcourse be a direct entry. As in, fly to 15dme, right turn to 020, fly to 10 dme, right to 200.
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This is directed mostly at "blue side up". Why a DME hold as opposed to a hold. It is usually done as an ALTERNATE means of establishing the "protected area". If you are cleared to hold at a specific radial and DME mileage with no outbound mileage given, then timing will establish the boundary of the hold, hence the maximum speed in a hold. But if ATC or local terrain demands or allows, ATC can establish a hold within a specific mileage. If, for example, the hold is for flow control, ATC can assign 10 mile legs as opposed to the one minute just to reduce the workload. I have had 20 mile legs while we wait for a CB to pass by the airport. The clearance was to TORON, Hold as Published, 20 mile legs. So I held between the 45 DME and 65 DME. It is very simple. Intercept the inbound radial, fly to the cleared DME(45 miles), turn right (or left) and fly to the second mileage(65 miles). Very simple. Just remember the KISS principle. Keep It Simple Stupid(Sir). This is used a lot in the mountains where geography is challenging and ATC wants you in a very specific airspace.
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