Why I Got Out of Aviation

[Ludacris]

Why I Got Out of Aviation

A better title would be “Why I decided not to find another job after my company got shutdown” but that’s too long. I’ve been meaning to write this for a while and I’ve finally got some free time after getting my life back together. So yeah, I’m an ex-Skyward employee, and why am I writing this? I was one of those new pilots who didn’t know what I was getting into while I was doing my training. Don’t get me wrong – I didn’t think I was going to finish flight school and fly for Air Canada, but I honestly thought a regional airline in the city would hire me and the only flying up north was floats and I didn’t want to fly floats. I wanted to fly for an airline. I had never heard of working the ramp or ‘lurking’ for that matter. If I read this while I was doing my training would I have changed my mind? Probably not, but at least I would have been better informed. So for all the flamers who are going to say good riddance because there’s now one more job out there for them, just take this as one guy’s story – it’s just as important or not as important as yours is.

I was determined as ever to make this career work. It was hard enough convincing friends and family that I wasn’t crazy giving up four engineering job offers after graduating from university. Flying is what I always wanted to do. My mom still has a video from when I was really young where I said wanted to be a pilot when I grew up. I once had an office job where I could watch planes taking off from the Calgary airport all day out the window. I dreamed that someday that would be me. I would drive down to the airport on breaks and park as near to the runway as I could just to be closer. My girlfriend thought I was crazy. But we all have stories like that…

So anyways, I was right in the middle of my commercial license when Sept 11th happened. I was depressed and spent a couple months deciding if I should go back to engineering. But I finally made a decision and told myself I was in it for the long haul no matter how difficult things were going to be in the future. I quickly finished up my licenses and the job search began. I was surprised when after a few months looking for a job in the Vancouver area I still didn’t have one. Then a friend told me about Skyward and how they had a good reputation. I decided that day that I was moving to Thompson. In one day I packed my truck and said goodbye to the friends, family, and girlfriend. Yes, I sacrificed everything for Skyward. Three days later I arrived and got settled in.

I didn’t get hired at Skyward right away and I quickly learned about ‘lurking.’ Get any job and hang out in town until you get on. Alright, so I got a job at Canadian Tire the next day. The next phone call back to the family didn’t go well. They were so angry at me – “What? You have an engineering degree and just spent $30,000 on your pilot training and now you’re working at Canadian Tire?!?” One of my uncles was so angry at me there was no way I could convince him I was doing the right thing. We still don’t talk to this day. He’s probably saying “Told you so.’ This was back in the day when the 1900’s were still rumor and believe it or not I was competing with over 20 other lurkers who also wanted a job at Skyward. I got lucky and was hired on at Skyward in less than a month. The girlfriend and I tried the long distance thing for a while but it became too much. I wouldn’t have a new girlfriend until I left Thompson 2 years later.

Now don’t get me wrong as I wasn’t new to the north, the weather, and the northern mentality since I had worked in Fort McMurray for a while. But I was new to working for a small company up north which was run with the northern mentality. I don’t want to turn this into another bash Skyward thread so all I’m going to say about that is most of us have been there and have similar stories, just in different locations. I spent over a year working the ramp waiting to fly and I consider myself lucky. Some guys spent almost two years on the ramp.

Once I started flying I was amazed at how fast it became a job and not the lifelong dream I thought it would be. I flew air ambulance and within the first month I was saying $%&* whenever the pager went off. Somehow we could be refreshing and on duty at the same time. For example, if we got paged at 7am we would be dutied at 9pm. But if we returned from that trip at 10am and didn’t get called again until 7:30pm we were good for another 14 hours. So just in that example we could be awake from 7am until 9:30am the next morning, and that day started with a full night’s sleep. Imagine if the first page came at 3am. To this day I am at a complete loss as to why Transport approved this during previous audits. Oh yeah, and we could do this 14 days straight too. Everyday in the airplane I found myself tired, hungry, and wanting a shower. I had never thought about what it would be like spending 14 hours next to someone who I wouldn’t have chosen to be friends with. At the away base, living and working with the same crew for two weeks straight is another story. Switching back and forth between days and nights continuously was the hardest part and that can’t be good for your health. Oh yeah, and all this for a $500 check every two weeks. My loan payments were $500 a month.

So this was my schedule for the next two years. Talk about being burnt out. But it wasn’t all bad though. Most of the people I worked with were really great. I started enjoying the away base more because it got me out of Thompson. I flew charters occasionally during the summer and that was a nice break from the medevac schedule. Everything was on track. I was next in line for a promotion. I started riding along on the new plane to get familiar with it. It was not fun. Pull off the wing covers, get the herman-nelson, remove the snow and de-ice the plane (and I don’t mean with a de-icing truck, I mean with brooms and ice scrapers), change the seats, take off the engine tents, put back the herman-nelson, run up the plane, put the engine tents back on, get the herman-nelson again, check with charters – oh, now there’s less people and more cargo – change the seats again, load the cargo – oh, all the cargo doesn’t fit, customer wants a different plane, unload the cargo, put on the wing covers, go home, get called back and go through it all again. And I would be doing this all by myself, not 2 crew like medevacs. It was tough to get into the mindset that I only had to endure this for about a year before getting promoted again, then I would be happy right? I’m not scared of hard work, but this was too much for so little reward. I’m sure there’s guys out there who say they’ll work their ass off loading cargo in -40 just for an hour of air time. Good for you, but if you still feel the same way after couple years of flying full-time let me know.

I was actually supposed to start the training for my promotion the week we got shutdown. Alright…It’s just for a few weeks so I’m heading to the beach. Email me when we’re back up and running. As everyone knows that email never came. I soon realized things were not going well and was probably one of the first to quit with the intention of taking a year off to see how the company rebuilt. I still don’t know why we got shutdown even after numerous enquires to management. I haven’t regretted that decision to quit for a second. I am now teaching overseas. Any doubt in my mind about my decision was erased a few days before I left Canada while I was sitting in TGIF on Robson Street. I opened the newspaper and read – Jetsgo is Bankrupt. I had just lost my appetite. I knew a bunch of ex-Skyward guys there and couldn’t stop thinking about them. For some that was their 3rd company in as many years. I could never imagine packing up and moving like that with a family. I know one guy who never started flying after he finished his training. What about their $30,000? NavAir, a company I originally tried to get on with years ago, recently had a crash and killed two pilots. Enough said about that.

Now that I’m out of aviation it’s amazing how I’m able to look back at my time spent flying more objectively. I loved the flying, it was everything else I didn’t like. And the flying was such a small part of the job. Now I have a regular mon-fri schedule, home every night, never work holidays, get 6 weeks vacation to start, and it’s always hot. Now I make more money starting than I did after three years at Skyward. I don’t like the direction the aviation industry is headed worldwide with low-cost carriers becoming the norm . Poor pay, even worse schedules, being easily replaceable, etc. Even in the States pilots are spending a large percentage of their career in the regionals nowadays for low pay while trying to make it to the majors. And only now have I realized that if I did make it to a major airline I still wouldn’t be happy because of the even greater amount of time spent away from home. I used to think that wouldn’t matter, but as I’ve gotten older I guess my priorities have changed. I have a friend who flies out of Hong Kong. He left for New York on Monday and didn’t get home until Thursday. Again, I can’t imagine doing that with a family. Telling my future children on a regular basis ‘Goodbye, I’ll see you in 4 days.’ As I sit here writing this I can look out the window at the planes in the distance. I don’t envy those pilots at all leaving at midnight for the other side of the world. One day I ran into a pilot in Vancouver who wasn’t too happy that he got called in to fly to England. I guess the not wanting to go to work never goes away no matter what you’re flying. Look at the advances in automation in the past 20 years. I heard some airlines now mandate the use of autothrottle the entire flight. Will there be any hand flying left in the next 20 years? How much larger can Westjet get and how long is the wait to command going to be once the growth stops? Combine all this with the strict medical requirements, constant re-testing, no job security, and low pay it’s just too much sacrifice for what has become only a job. Any idea where I think this career is headed? Some people come on here on a regular basis and brag about how much money they make and how good they have it flying a Metro in Manitoba. I’ve flown to those same places, in the same -40 weather, and for the same customers. Let me tell you, it’s no picnic.

So, that’s what I think now. It’s way different than five years ago. I used to think if I loved my job everything else would fall into place. Like I said, I do love flying but not as a job. I've learned other things in life are more important. Do I regret my time spent flying? No way. If I never tried it I would be wondering my whole life what would it be like. So maybe Skyward getting shutdown was a good thing for me because I realized aviation isn’t for me after only 3 years and not 20 when it’s too late. Lot’s of my friends from Skyward have found new jobs and I wish everyone the best. I’m sure you know who I am so let’s keep in touch.

Oh yeah, one last thing. I recently tried to withdraw my company pension and was told that it’s been frozen . If anyone knows how it’s possible for this to happen to the employee contributions of a pension plan please pm me. Does this mean my pension money can now go to pay Skyward’s debts? Has anyone been successful in getting any money they’re still owed? I heard the owners are trying to set up a new airline. How is this possible when everyone is still owed so much money?

[evalle]

I will print your post!!!! it is a good indication on how the industry, in Canada wants mules and not professional pilots.
I always followed two path, one my job who pays well above average salary, and allow me to pay a mortgage and my wife's shoe , the other is flying.
I dream every day about a fly-job i watch often documentary where pilots were considered like doctors or lawyer, and i realize that is no more.
Low-cost i think is good, but i don't think it means cheap pilots, cheap rampies, cheap engeneers. This will impact on safety, i am sure... don't worry get a good job and remember, we live for flying we don't fly to live (specially with 500$ every 2 weeks).

[Mig29]

"we live for flying we don't fly to live"

very well said Evalle!!! We all seem to forget this at times...

and for you there above buddy, good luck on whatever you decide in life! It's sad what happened, but look on the bright side..."there is always a reason for it, sometimes we just don't see around the corner" If you know from where I'm coming from.

YOU only know what's the best for yourself.

[short bus]

Some people need to do a lot more research before they commit themselves to this line of work. Judging by the comments in your post, you did next to none.

"I thought a regional airline in the city would hire me."

Did you even check to see what any of these prospective companies requirements were?

"I had never heard of working the ramp or lurking for that matter"

None of your instructors or anybody you met along the way in training filled you in on entry level jobs?

"I was surprised when after a few months looking for a job in the Vancouver area I still didn't have one."

You can hit all the companies in YVR in a day or two. Once again, did you do no research? Nobody told you there are no jobs for low timers in YVR?
and it took you how many months to figure this out?

"Then a friend told me about Skyward and how they had a good rep, I decided that day to move to Thompson."

So on the strength of your friends opinion you moved halfway across the country? How do you know that Skyward had such a good rep?, because your friend told you? Once again, maybe some research before you move to a place saturated with folks trying to get their first job. It's a shame you missed about a hundred companies along the way where things might have worked out better.

I don't mean to sound harsh, and I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but when I got started in this I made damn sure I knew what I was getting into and the prospects that were out there. I'm sorry things didn't work out for you but I'm just getting tired of hearing "the world owes me something" from people who don't spend the time to learn about what they're getting into and complain about it when it doesn't turn out how they thought it would. Hopefully you at least learned some valuable lessons from it, and good luck in your new career, hope it works out better than the last.

[Dockjock]

Oh dismount from your high horse there buddy. Even the most whiny pilot out there has a friggin 10 fold better work ethic than your average office worker. Most wouldn't last a week, this guy gave it 3 years. Too bad it didn't work out, and good luck in the future man.

[Yoyoma]

Ludacris, I felt bad reading your post but I can relate. I also know that you're on a path to recovery, trust me, give it 2-3 years, you'll be thinking of the size of House and car to purchase...

My 2 cents to you!! Work 2-3 more years, get an MBA, go back in your engineering field as management. Whatever it is, with this combination of experience and education, you're looking at a minimum of $80K.

You Guys live to fly?? Snap out of it, it's not the golden days anymore where you got showered in glory every time you grease a bird! Nowadays, you get showered in crap cause you didn't degrease the bird well enough!

An short bus, when I trained, 1 month on the ramp was for the unlucky guys who couldn't get a gig. The leftover companies asked for 6 months. Now Yellowknife's mightiest asks for 3 years... It's a constantly evolving industry, even if you do your homework!

Good Luck...

[cyyz]

The leftover companies asked for 6 months. Now Yellowknife's mightiest asks for 3 years... It's a constantly evolving industry, even if you do your homework...

Kill all the pilots, go to jail for a year, god bless canada and it's non-subsequent killing rule... And You'll be the first on jet..

Make the rules, if you want change(everyone).

[bandaid]

A letter like this one should be printed out and put on every bulletin board in every flight school in Canada, won't happen because those same flight schools are still blowing smoke up everyones kilt about the future of aviation in this country. I was reading an article in the paper about a month ago that was hailing Commercial Pilot as one of the hottest career choices out there, boy I would like to know where these guys get their information.
In so far a job security goes, I have been a paramedic in a Provincially run service for 25 years this month. I don't remember a time during all these years where we weren't being threatened with privatization. A job that I make enough money to keep myself and my family in food and cloths could at any time be ripped out from under me to be replaced by 3,000 people who would do what I do for $8 an hour. Here in lies the problem. I as a paramedic am not irreplacable, and with the number of pilots being produced every year in Canada, neither are you.
I'm not a big fan of Unions but I have to say that an Association that could somehow limit the number of pilots being trained based on factual predictions of future need would be a hugh benefit to all. Stories like the one Ludicris has given represents in a very small way an example of a rising problem in aviation.
The rantings of a father of a child who choose aviation as a career.

[greenwich]

'Ludacris',

Great points and well written. Hang on to your post and give it to every kid that tells you he wants to become a pilot! After reading it, if he STILL wants to become a pilot then good for him!

I was in a similar boat when I started researching flying as a career. I didn't know any pilots, so I visited aviation-schools and actually set-up meetings with AC and Jazz guys to learn about careers as a pilot.

The catch was that it was pre-9/11 and pre-LCC, so the overwhelming response was "yes, become a pilot"..."it's the greatest career!". Man, has that changed!!!

But hey, I'm still here! I still love it and I am still climbing up the old-ladder...rung by rung! I still make 50% to 80% less than most of my non-pilot friends, and I still live with a cell phone in my back pocket! And ultimately I still enjoy driving to my plane at 0400h! So I'm still hanging on!!

G

[Yoyoma]

Kill all the pilots, go to jail for a year, god bless canada and it's non-subsequent killing rule... And You'll be the first on jet..

Make the rules...

No need for that, I moved on...

[teacher]

Can I ever relate to your post. 7 years into my aviation career and I'm on my 4th layoff/termination/end of contract. The "Pogey" people know me very well. I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet although many of my pilot friends have decided that there's a lot more to life than this, it's amazing to see the transformation of attitudes. In highschool we were all good to go and ready to rip it up, now we just roll our eyes and listen to our non pilot friends say "you're unemployed again!?"

[Phlyer]

Great post - thanks for your story. I got it from an insider that Skyward was shut down because TC would go to different people in the company looking for answers and all would point to one individual who would micromanage everything - his way.
Just what I heard; take it with a grain of salt.
I too am on my fourth layoff and really wonder what the hell I'm doing here. The difference is that I have a wife and kid. I'm lucky that my wife is very supportive of my career and has endured three big moves for it. We are in YYC now and here is where we will stay - I just bought a house! It's all relative - I could have made another huge move after my last job and jumped up the next rung, but I'm at a point where quality of life and my family's stability is more important then the next job. To those that are single and can jump in the car and drive across the country good for you - that ain't me no more.
I still love flying - and I endured 04 stupid mornings at my last job too, with the associated BS from management. I now believe every job has a certain amount of that.
Good luck on your new gig - I hope it works out for you. It would be nice if you could be the one saying 'told you so' to your uncle; maybe down the line. Look at Yoyoma - he still spends all his time on this forum from the other side of the globe! It's hard to get in, but harder to get out completely.
Cheers, FOTO

[Flight RN]

Ludacris,
Great post!
Nice to see someone with the courage to make that statement. Glad you're enjoying your tropical climate, I was pretty sure you would! If I had known then what I do now, I still would have done it all over again, but mostly because Thompson was a great learning experience and I met a lot of really great people up there. And it also helped me to decided that I don't love flying enough to starve for it.
After being out with a few of the ex-Skyward guys and gals this past weekend I want to say how happy they all are! It is amazing what getting new jobs with companies that treat their employees with respect and humanity can do for a person's disposition!! I am proud of all of them. I miss working with them, but it is so nice to see them doing so well.

[172pilot]

way too many variables in this industry and i've watched good friends move 5 times in five years with wife and kids in tow. maybe more. can't keep count.

one key thing i've witnessed with my friends is that you either struggle for many many years, or you get a great job from the start, and in five years you're flying a 757. toss of a coin it seems. similar people who work their ass off, but one gets lucky, the other doesn't. one guy is flying a330s within seven years, others are instructing and can't get a break. my point is that watching these guys bust themselves, they still are up against so many external variables. crappy companies. too many pilots. lack of investment in the industry. the list goes on.

and no, i don't think unions are the answer. we can't regulate every industry with policies and barriers to make it better for the lucky few who get in. sounds like trying to get a government job. if you study economics, barriers and monopolies/oligopolies created through barriers only hinder society. competition is healthy. countries like canada were founded on the principle of a competitive free market. we can't limit those who want the chance of being a pilot. if they want to take the risk, and deal with risks/rewards, low initial pay etc, it is their choice. nobody is forcing someone to be a pilot, so i don't see why a union needs to be put in place. it's already a highly regulated industry. more regulation won't help. it'll only drive up costs and force more employers out of business. though the lucky few will have a higher wage at the cost of others losing their job. you can't have it both ways. what i see here are those who want a return to the days of when being a pilot was akin to doctors and lawyers. i think those days are long gone. remember most airlines were subsidized to stay afloat with government loans etc. it's a very expensive industry and for airlines to stay in business it's all about cost cutting. or you can raise fairs, have less people travelling, and less employees. eitherway someone loses out. the employees or the consumer.

i hope all goes well for the original poster. i will bookmark his post.

[pitot]

When i started flying I had no idea what to expect. I never dreamed of being a pilot. I thought you literally had to start going to school for it when you like 6. Never the less, i heard a radio commercial which said there is a huge shortage of pilots blah blah blah blah blah. So i asked a few questions( not nearly enough) and away i went. One of the questions i had which i will never forget was when I asked this old man who shall remain nameless if people are actually getting jobs after completing their training? Reply..... O yes last year we had 24 graduates and everyone of them found a job. Wow i thought. Anyways back to training, battling air sickness and all. Half way through my commercial and getting more of an idea as to the industry, when after talking to other people i realize there arent that many jobs out there. So i go back to this gentleman and pose the same question only this time i ask how many actually got flying jobs. He tells me 2. and only a few more had actually found jobs in offices and on ramps with companies which actually had planes, i later found out. The rest were at fishing lodges, avitats etc. This was back in 99 when i took my training and up till prob a year ago i still heard this school advertising a big shortage and how there will be all this demand for pilots. I guess what im saying is its schools like this which are causing alot of the problems we as pilots are having. It is bringing alot of people like me for example who never thought of or cared to be a pilot into the industry which in turn is forcing the ones who dreamed of being a pilots well as everyone else to be pimped out and work for very little. As a whole i have definitely had my ups and downs and i can honestly say that the only reason i have stuck with it as long as i have is i always said i would not quit atleast until my loan is paid off. Well today is that day. Now.... to pay of the other debts i have incurred in my trek to be a pilot. $9000 visa $3000 sears card and $2500 mastercard.

[raven54]

"3 years on the ramp in Yellowknife" ??? Where do you guys get this crap? No one I know of has done 3 years. [/quote]

[cyyz]

"3 years on the ramp in Yellowknife" ??? Where do you guys get this crap? No one I know of has done 3 years.

It's called they're there lurking and if more people go they'll lose a leg.. So you have to play the industry down in those parts of the world..

PS, I'm right so no need to reply, do a quick search about all the other pilots who got a break at crappy places, and once they're done they comment "oh worst place to go, worst maintenance... Blah blah blah..."

"Buying a PPC is lame" and you see their resume, 3 hours PPC from joe boo...

[bandaid]

Pitot,
That is exactly what I was alluding to in my post. So far as I know their is no process in place to toe in these training institutions from misleading propective students into believing that their are 100 jobs for every pilot trained. I have no idea what the answer is but you can pretty much accept your fate until one is found.
172driver,
I know for most union is a four letter word, not that I disagree at all but, I am getting a little frustrated by some in your profession putting yourselves down. Let me ask you this, would you put yourself in the hands of surgeon who made $1400.00 a month for your cardiac bypass operation, or the same applies to the lawyer who you would pay $10.00 to represent you in court. So why then do you think that your worth is so much less when you have the responsibility of peoples lives in your hands. By the time you get your degree you have probably put out close to the same amount for education and the nose picking kid working the drive thru at McDonalds makes more money than you. Why is your worth less than that doctor or lawyer? The truth is even the bad ones make more money in a month than a lot of you guys in a year. Regulation is not the answer but something has to be done, needless to say the owners of the flight schools are not going to do it for you. Maybe the answer is to set up a career booth next to a flight schools booth in the next school career day and let those young people know the real truth about your profession.

[Yoyoma]

... until my loan is paid off. Well today is that day. Now.... to pay of the other debts i have incurred in my trek to be a pilot. $9000 visa $3000 sears card and $2500 mastercard.

Pitot, since you paid off your loan, go and ask for another one. Use it to pay your credit cards and keep paying your bank at a smaller interest rate. Don't be a victim of credit cards!

Cheers

[evalle]

Bandaid,
i asked the same questions and people told me that being a pilot is "not rocket science". I was told in AvCanada that being a rampie is "articling".
The fact is (in my opinion) that we should get paid for the professionalism that they ask us to have. A doctor doesn't get yearly medicals, PPC, PCC every 6-12 month, if he makes a mistake, probably is not is fault (that is what they say)!!! I think the industry ask pilot to have a very high level of knowledge, professionalism, good judgment, maturity, courage but with the supply/demand BS they keep the money away from us!!!
Who can help us? unfortunatelly, only unions!!!! Look CN, a train driver make in average between 75K and 85K per year!!!!! You tell me is more difficult than fly in IMC? i don't think so!!! all transportations industry are very high regulated but why a TTC bus-driver makes double money that a pilot? UNIONS!!!!!! Until the comapanies are not grabbed by the balls nothing will change
Now young pilots working ramp or flying a beaver for the first time, are bypassing safety, i am sure!! Why? Because if you want the price (a flying seat) then you keep your mouth shut!!!! If you see a plane with one wheel taking off you not going to tell anybody!!! People are dying today because of this policy i am sure!!
In aviation there is too much passion!!! we need to step back and make our interest once in a while...
CIAO

[cyyz]

Pitot, since you paid off your loan, go and ask for another one. Use it to pay your credit cards and keep paying your bank at a smaller interest rate. Don't be a victim of credit cards!

Take a loan out for the most you can, max out your cards, hit the casino all on black and if you lose, declare bancruptcy...

Fark the banks. =)

[North Shore]

Kinda adds a bitter taste to "Living the dream" eh, Ludacris?

[. .]

I'm glad that you posted your story. I think all of us sparing the chosen few have very similar stories. It seems that the second you step out and question how crummy our industry has become you're labelled as someone who couldn't hack it, someone who's lazy, someone who's blah blah. Clearly anyone who can endure a year on the ramp in YTH isn't lazy, etc.

God speed in your new life.

[complexintentions]

Take a loan out for the most you can, max out your cards, hit the casino all on black and if you lose, declare bancruptcy...

Fark the banks. =)

LOVE IT! Double down baby, double down....

To the original poster, a very articulate, thorough post. You hit the nail on the head, too...if the "only" thing your time in Thompson accomplished was to eliminate a lifetime of regret (of not trying for a dream), it was time extremely well spent...

Best of luck with future endeavours, from the sounds of it you'll be fine at whatever you choose.

[ice ice baby]

Excellent post Ludacris. I think you should send it to some newspapers, can't say they'd print it but it would make for a great editorial.

I can say that I avoided the loans. I asked my parents to co-sign a loan so I could go through a college program........and they said show us that you'll get a job (flying)....well I did a ton of research. Called a few operators and it didn't look too good, so understandibly they said no . Looking back I'm glad they did . I found a better paying job to pay for my flight training, one that I would be able to fall back on if I ever need to "take a year off from flying."