Appeal court reduces penalty Air Canada has to pay for Engli

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43S/172E
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Appeal court reduces penalty Air Canada has to pay for Engli

Post by 43S/172E »

From PPRuNe:

Appeal court reduces penalty Air Canada has to pay for English-only 7Up service

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Good Afternoon All:

It would appear the long drawn out saga is coming to an end.

My only comment is this if it was YUL to FLL I could see that in a hollywood nano-second but YYZ ATL????

By Ian MacLeod, Ottawa Citizen October 2, 2012 11:02 AM



Air Canada successfully argued to have the penalty it has to pay to an Orléans family for not providing bilingual service to $3,000 from $12,000.
Photograph by: Andrew Vaughan , THE CANADIAN PRESS
OTTAWA — Air Canada has won a partial reprieve in its legal battle with an Ottawa couple who successfully sued the airline over its failure to serve them in French, including not being able to order a can of 7Up from a unilingual flight attendant.
The Federal Court of Appeal has overturned parts of a 2011 federal court judgment that found the airline and its contract carrier, Jazz, breached the Official Languages Act (OLA) on four occasions in 2009 involving Michel and Lynda Thibodeau of Orléans.
The appellate court has upheld the main ruling — Air Canada has always acknowledged the four breaches — but slashed the monetary damages the lower court awarded to Thibodeaus, to $3,000 from $12,000. The couple originally sought $500,000 in exemplary and punitive damages.
The high court also overturned the lower court’s finding that Air Canada has “systemic problem,” complying with federal linguistic requirements. Because of that, Air Canada no longer has to comply with the lower court’s order directing it to introduce a monitoring system to track potential violations of its language act obligations.
Even so, as a result of the initial federal court ruling, Air Canada has devised and is going ahead with an action plan to improve its delivery of bilingual services under the language act.
The airline says it is, “satisfied that the Court of Appeal recognized the effort recognized the efforts and money invested by Air Canada to meet our obligations under the OLA.
“The court also recognized that we have already undertaken substantial corrective actions to ensure the bilingual capabilities of our staff both at Air Canada and Jazz,” spokesman Peter Fitzpatrick wrote in an email.
The Thibodeaus could not be reached.
The couple initially complained of eight instances in 2009 in which they did not receive services in French at airports in Atlanta, Toronto and Ottawa and aboard three related Air Canada Jazz flights between Canada and the United States.
The languages act requires Air Canada, a former Crown corporation, to communicate and provide services in both official languages in the National Capital Region and elsewhere in Canada, “where there is significant demand for those services in the minority language and where it is warranted by the nature of the office or facility.”
In an affidavit filed in the federal court case, the fluently bilingual Michel Thibodeau highlighted the lack of bilingual staff on a flight from Charlotte to Toronto on May 12, 2009.
“At 11:46 a.m., the flight attendant came by and asked my wife and me, ‘Anything to drink folks?’ Lynda said, “Rien merci” [No, thank you]. I told her “Je vais prendre un 7Up s.v.p.” [I would like a 7Up, please]. She served me a Sprite.”
A similar incident happened with Michel Thibodeau in 2000 when he tried to order a 7Up from a unilingual English flight attendant on an Air Ontario flight from Montreal to Ottawa. He filed suit in Federal Court for $525,000 in damages.
The court upheld his complaint, ordered the airline to make a formal apology and pay him $5,375.95. Thibodeau was later honoured by the French-language rights group, Imperatif français.
For its part in the latest case, Air Canada admitted to the court it is not always able to provide all services in French as required by the Act, but that breaches are occasional and do not reveal a systemic problem, as alleged by the Thibodeaus.
Still, the airline has sent of a letter of apology to the couple and admitted to these four breaches in the case:
No services in French on board flight AC8627 flying the Toronto-Atlanta route on Jan. 23, 2009 though there was a significant demand; no translation of an announcement made in English by the pilot concerning the arrival time and weather on flight AC8622 flying the Atlanta-Toronto route on Feb. 1, 2009; no services in French on board flight AC7923 flying the Charlotte-Toronto route on May 12, 2009; an announcement made in English only to passengers concerning baggage collection at the Toronto airport on May 12, 2009.
In its reasons for judgment, Federal Court of Appeal Justice Johanne Trudel, writing for the three-member panel, said the federal court erred when it awarded $4,500 in damages to each of the Thibodeaus based on a section of international air carrier convention, to which Canada is a signatory.
Because the Thibodeuas’ original court action was launched under the Official Languages Act, only that legislation applies when it comes to assessing monetary damages, the court reasoned.
In striking down the finding that Air Canada has “systemic problems” meeting its linguistic obligations, the appellate court said the evidence for such as finding was “vague”.
As well, the monitoring order was imprecise and therefore, “its implementation would be problematic for the appellant, and for any court called to intervene in the event of a future dispute.”
© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen
Read more: Appeal court reduces penalty Air Canada has to pay for English-only 7Up service
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accumulous
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Re: Appeal court reduces penalty Air Canada has to pay for E

Post by accumulous »

“At 11:46 a.m., the flight attendant came by and asked my wife and me, ‘Anything to drink folks?’ Lynda said, “Rien merci” [No, thank you]. I told her “Je vais prendre un 7Up s.v.p.” [I would like a 7Up, please]. She served me a Sprite.”

So they ordered 7Up in English and got a Sprite and 3 Grand?

That's no different than asking for some Kleenex and getting a Scottie, since Kleenex has devolved through decades of competition to just kleenex, to mean any nasal tissue on the market.

If I was AC's lawyer I would have argued that 7UP has simply become the generic term for an uncola, which 7Up themselves coined, of which Sprite is a subclass.

Case dismissed.
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YYZSaabGuy
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Re: Appeal court reduces penalty Air Canada has to pay for E

Post by YYZSaabGuy »

43S/172E wrote:“At 11:46 a.m., the flight attendant came by and asked my wife and me, ‘Anything to drink folks?’ Lynda said, “Rien merci” [No, thank you]. I told her “Je vais prendre un 7Up s.v.p.” [I would like a 7Up, please]. She served me a Sprite.”
The horror. The horror............ :shock:
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FlyGy
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Re: Appeal court reduces penalty Air Canada has to pay for E

Post by FlyGy »

Sprite is a subclass of NOTHING!!! HOW DARE YOU!!!!

If I order a Coke and get a Pepsi I'd sue for a half million dollars too.

:twisted:
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accumulous
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Re: Appeal court reduces penalty Air Canada has to pay for E

Post by accumulous »

FlyGy wrote:Sprite is a subclass of NOTHING!!! HOW DARE YOU!!!!

If I order a Coke and get a Pepsi I'd sue for a half million dollars too.

:twisted:
First of all you'd have to specifically order a Coca-Cola, and now you'd only get 3 Grand.
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Genetk44
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Re: Appeal court reduces penalty Air Canada has to pay for E

Post by Genetk44 »

As the flight was from Charlotte....North Carolina presumably, it is conceivable that the caterers down there supplied the aircraft with Sprite instead of 7-Up and that is why he got Sprite...not anything to do with language.
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Re: Appeal court reduces penalty Air Canada has to pay for E

Post by North Shore »

...nothing...
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Re: Appeal court reduces penalty Air Canada has to pay for E

Post by avagator »

AC doesn't carry 7UP. So if he was given nothing, would that have been worth 5,000 dollars? I don't see how this wasn't laughed off. If I go to Northern Quebec I expect to communicate in my best frenglais. This just perpetuates ridiculous. All the safety sensitive announcements were bilingual. French is a language not a creed, race, or culture.
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Re: Appeal court reduces penalty Air Canada has to pay for E

Post by bcflyer »

Ahhh yes however the Air Canada Participation act says AC HAS TO be able to offer service in English and French (something no other airline is required to do) as well as HAS TO offer all its manuals etc in English and French. (again something no other airline is required to do.) It also HAS to maintain certain bases and HAS TO keep its head office in Montreal. (yup you guessed it, something no other airline is required to do)

You are right though, this law suit is beyond ridiculous.
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CD
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Re: Appeal court reduces penalty Air Canada has to pay for E

Post by CD »

It's not the first time that Monsieur Thibodeau has ordered 7-Up from Air Canada:

AvCanada: Ottawa man lobbies for bilingual bus drivers
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Re: Appeal court reduces penalty Air Canada has to pay for E

Post by Sea2Sky »

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... o-grow-up/

Not the only BS lawsuit using "rights" to mask pure, hypocritical greed. But we'll leave that one alone here.
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Re: Appeal court reduces penalty Air Canada has to pay for E

Post by CD »

Supreme Court to hear case of couple who sued Air Canada for not being able to order a 7Up in French
Canadian Press and Postmedia News | 13/05/02 | Last Updated: 13/05/02 11:13 AM ET

OTTAWA — The Supreme Court of Canada has agreed to hear the appeal of a couple who sued Air Canada when they weren’t able to order a 7Up in French.

Michel and Lynda Thibodeau filed eight complaints with the official languages commissioner over the English-only services they say they received from Air Canada during trips taken between January and May, 2009.

The Federal Court awarded the couple $12,000 in compensation for the times Air Canada did not serve them in French.

Air Canada was also ordered to apologize to the Thibodeaus.

But the Federal Court of Appeal set aside the lower court’s judgment and reduced the amount of money awarded to the couple.

As is its custom, the Supreme Court did not provide reasons for its decision.

In 2000, Thibodeau was refused service in French when he tried to order a 7Up from a unilingual English flight attendant on an Air Ontario flight from Montreal to Ottawa.

Thibodeau filed suit in Federal Court for $525,000 in damages. The court upheld his complaint, ordered the airline to make a formal apology and pay him $5,375.95. Thibodeau was later honoured by the French-language rights group, Imperatif Francais.

In 2007, he filed a complaint against the City of Ottawa, accusing it of not providing sufficient bilingual services on its buses.

In the latest case, the Thibodeaus initially complained of eight instances in 2009 in which they did not receive services in French at airports in Atlanta, Toronto and Ottawa and aboard three related Air Canada Jazz flights between Canada and the United States.

The Official Languages Act requires Air Canada to communicate and provide services in both official languages in the National Capital Region and elsewhere in Canada, “where there is significant demand for those services in the minority language and where it is warranted by the nature of the office or facility.”

Full article here...
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Re: Appeal court reduces penalty Air Canada has to pay for E

Post by North Shore »

[Ok, I've got a sore back, and consequently am in a grumpy mood]

It's not enough that we find out that we lost - vanished into thin air - $3.1 BILLION this week, but now, to top it off, somebody at the SCoC has decided that this is worthy of a fair chunk of the court's time and MY money to hear this Bilingual wanker whine about not getting served in French? Holy Kryste, First World problems. Whisky Tango Fox, over! :evil:
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Re: Appeal court reduces penalty Air Canada has to pay for E

Post by Krimson »

He tried to get $525,000 for getting a sprite over a 7up?!?

The problem is people trying to get rich off their laziness and other's hard work. I don't want to do anything but I'll try to take some of your fortune for a minor inconvenience to me. Glad I don't live in USA.
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Re: Appeal court reduces penalty Air Canada has to pay for E

Post by Inverted2 »

I thought the Pepsi's only drink Pepsi anyway! :lol:
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crazy_aviator
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Re: Appeal court reduces penalty Air Canada has to pay for E

Post by crazy_aviator »

Send this loser back to France ,,,, Actually they wouldnt want him there ,, :lol:
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Re: Appeal court reduces penalty Air Canada has to pay for E

Post by rigpiggy »

Now I'm not CEO, but if I were him, my IT guys would put a few lines of code in the res system to bump up fares for anything coming form his ISP #,ID. I'm sorry sir but the 400$ fare is no longer available, the next available is 1200$, wouldn't take long to make back the 3300+ lawyers fees
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Re: Appeal court reduces penalty Air Canada has to pay for E

Post by North Shore »

^ Dear Rig, please tell me before I come close to ticking you off! That's devious.
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Re: Appeal court reduces penalty Air Canada has to pay for E

Post by CD »

Court expected to rule on French-language pop order in 6 months

3:03 pm, March 26th, 2014
DANIEL PROUSSALIDIS | QMI AGENCY

OTTAWA - The Supreme Court's decision of an Ottawa man's French-language complaint against Air Canada is expected in about six months.

The justices heard a series of technical arguments from lawyers on both sides Wednesday on whether Michel Thibodeau and his wife Lynda deserve cash compensation for inadequate French service aboard Canada-U.S. flights.

Thibodeau's complaint is based, in part, on a 2009 Toronto-bound flight from Charlotte, N.C., when he ordered a 7-Up in French, but got a Sprite instead from an English-speaking flight attendant.

His lawyer says Air Canada has to understand that as a former state airline, it must follow the Official Languages Act to the letter.

"So there has to be a consequence," Ronald F. Caza told reporters. "What is one of those consequences? It has to be the payment of money."

Thibodeau spoke extensively with francophone reporters outside the court, but deferred English questions to his lawyer and walked away from further attempts to question him in English.

The Federal Court awarded Thibodeau and his wife $12,000 in damages in 2011 and ordered Air Canada to undertake an extensive language monitoring program, and to apologize to the Thibodeaus.

However, the Federal Court of Appeal reduced the damages to just $3,000 and an apology letter because international rules don't provide for the kind of compensation the lower court awarded.

Official Languages Commissioner Graham Fraser appealed that decision to the Supreme Court of Canada, and bristles at the suggestion that Thibodeau's case is trival.

"If it were trivial, the Supreme Court would not be hearing it," he said.
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Re: Appeal court reduces penalty Air Canada has to pay for E

Post by YYZSaabGuy »

CD wrote:
Court expected to rule on French-language pop order in 6 monthsOfficial Languages Commissioner Graham Fraser appealed that decision to the Supreme Court of Canada, and bristles at the suggestion that Thibodeau's case is trival. "If it were trivial, the Supreme Court would not be hearing it," he said.
In fairness, Fraser is correct: this isn't a trivial matter. It's beyond trivial. It's sucking and blowing great chunks of nothingness into an eternal vortex of irrelvance and wasted money.

This guy - Fraser's - initial seven year term ended in October 2013, and he was reappointed - at an annual compensation package of God only knows how much, because it's not disclosed on-line anywhere that I can find - for another three-year term, to waste time and money pursuing crap like this. His office has a budget of $23.9 million - your aggressively-collected tax dollars at work, ladies and gentlemen - for 2013-14, including $15.1 million in salaries, or 72% of the main budget. His staff consists of 163 FTEs, all rooting around to find people like the Thibodeaus, who have a history of trying to find every opportunity to play the linguistic victim at our collective expense. And we Canadians, being eternally "nice" and "tolerant", play along. Supreme Court of Canada my ass.
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Re: Appeal court reduces penalty Air Canada has to pay for E

Post by bmc »

crazy_aviator wrote:Send this loser back to France ,,,, Actually they wouldnt want him there ,, :lol:
That isn't French behaviour. That's Quebec "we want" behaviour.

They're not the ones to blame. Canada has a legal system that enables such stupidity to be taken seriously.
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Re: Appeal court reduces penalty Air Canada has to pay for E

Post by 43S/172E »

From the Globe and Mail October 28 2014

Air Canada won't have to pay couple for not serving in French, top court rules
OTTAWA — The Globe and Mail

Published Tuesday, Oct. 28 2014, 10:54 AM EDT

Last updated Tuesday, Oct. 28 2014, 2:28 PM EDT

The Supreme Court has ruled that Air Canada does not have to compensate an Ontario couple who said they were not served in French on international flights.

The court says Lynda and Michel Thibodeau are not entitled to $12,000 the Federal Court said they could get. That decision was subsequently overruled by the Federal Court of Appeal.

The Thibodeaus filed several complaints with the official languages commissioner over the English-only services they say they received from the airline during trips taken between January and May, 2009.

Air Canada previously apologized to the couple.

In its ruling today, the high court noted that the Montreal Convention, a multilateral treaty adopted in 1999, provides for compensation only in cases of death, injury, delays or baggage-related incidents.
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Re: Appeal court reduces penalty Air Canada has to pay for E

Post by Krimson »

Finally some sense to this story. I hope Air Canada paid them already and now is entitled to the money back! 1 year later, here's a court ordered bill for $12000!
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Re: Appeal court reduces penalty Air Canada has to pay for E

Post by 7ECA »

Hmm, suing when you don't get your desired brand of beverage... Interesting...

When I last flew Air Canada, from Vancouver to Toronto, when asked if I would like a drink, I asked for iced tea, but was told that they did not have any. Damnit I've been discriminated against, and I demand that Air Canada bend over, and pay me a large sum of money for inconveniencing me! :roll:

Actually, I just said I'll have water then. And I stuck it to Air Canada, by asking for a refill. :lol:
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Re: Appeal court reduces penalty Air Canada has to pay for E

Post by cdnpilot77 »

What's the legality of refusing these people an airline ticket in the future? No fly list? If I was AC, I would never want them on another company flight, ever!

Greedy is too small of a word for the people! If I were a Francophone in Canada (TeePeeCreeper) I would be all over these people letting them know that they do not represent the majority of French speaking people of Canada. This is just an embarrassment to all Francophones and good on the Supreme Court for getting this one right!
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