Sunwing/Canjet fleet and foreign pilots winter 2012-2013

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Sunwing has had 10 aircraft registered with TC this year. These can be considered the permanent fleet that the company keeps year round with permanent crews.

Last year, they had about 150 pilots, so about 15 pilots per aircraft. They recently upgraded about 20 First Officers to Captain and also recently hired 20 seasonal Canadian pilots for the winter season. These 20 new hires were not necessarily type rated on the 737 when hired. Most were not and possibly, none were.

The first additional seasonal aircraft arrived in Canada yesterday: It was dry-leased from Travel Service, a Czech airline. It will be flying for Sunwing as C-GVVH. So now the fleet stands at 11 aircraft.

Stay tuned for other aircraft arrivals, and especially stay tuned to find out who will be flying the new arrivals. How many aircraft can Sunwing operate with 170 pilots ?

[ea306]

25 aircraft projected.

15 new hires full time seniority list for 2012 so far.
20 Canadian Contractors.
30 Newly upgraded Captains training completed and implemented effective 01 November.

So far....

[M. Essaie]

I don't have a dog in this fight but I am intrigued to see "Canadian contract pilots" mentioned. Does that mean there is an opportunity to do seasonal work for the company? Would someone have an email I could use to query that with their people?

M

[JTF01]

I too am quite curious about these Canadian contractor pilots. From what I have read, Sunwing has formed a contracting agency that they utilize to staff their airline with Canadian pilots. Seems to be straight from the Outsourcing & Union-Busting 101 handbook, as I believe they are in some sort of contract negotiations with their union. Are these Canadian contract pilots considered on the Sunwing seniority list. Do they get the pay/benefits that a normal Sunwing Canadian pilots would get?

Haven't heard much mentioned about the Sunwing contracting agency, aside from what Gilles Hudicourt reports on. There aren't too many Sunwing guys who actively post on this board, although I imagine there are a good number of lurkers.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Let me find you the official name of that Crewing Contracting Company that Sunwing created to hire temporary pilots that it leases to itself, and I will post it here. I am on a rotation now, so give me a day or two.....

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Sunwing now has 12 aircraft in its fleet with the addition yesterday of C-GTVG, a dry-lease from Czech Travel Service. This aircraft does not seem to be in Canada yet.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

One source is telling me that the Air Berlin pilots that were supposed to work for Sunwing this winter were denied their work permits and are no longer coming to Canada this winter.

Another source tells me that an Air Berlin pilot who flew as Captain for Sunwing last year is already back in Canada for the winter. Contradictory information.

Did the Air Berlin chaps get their Canadian work permits or not ? If they did, how did they come in ? Reciprocity or LMO ?

[whipline]

There wasn't that many air Berlin pilots last season. I don't think it has anything to do with not being given work permits rather just not needed this year. The winter program is tentatively planned in the spring. Plans change, numbers change. Sunwing would have asked air Berlin if they could supply pilots this winter. Air Berlin would have put out a bid to find exact numbers. In early August they were told they weren't needed.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

I heard that Canjet is planning 32 foreign pilots this winter. Have they arrived ? Anyone know ?

[buzzjob]

While we are on the topic of foreign pilots, how many Thomas Cook pilots will be flying for Westjet this winter??

[Legacy]

While we are on the topic of foreign pilots, how many Thomas Cook pilots will be flying for Westjet this winter??

Not sure but Thomas Cook saved Westjet from returning 3 aircraft leases. 3 aircraft times 12 pilots per aircraft. I am sure we can figure that one out.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

While we are on the topic of foreign pilots, how many Thomas Cook pilots will be flying for Westjet this winter??

Last years' CTA decision was published on Nov 09, 2011, so I guess we will soon know.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Not sure but Thomas Cook saved Westjet from returning 3 aircraft leases. 3 aircraft times 12 pilots per aircraft. I am sure we can figure that one out.

The Thomas Cook contract certainly did. But was it obtained on the condition of Westjet wet-leasing two TC 757s ? Not sure.

[Gino Under]

It's getting pretty late in the year and this issue has been on the burner for many months now. What seems to be lacking is Federal Government participation or response.
Is anyone in government even interested in sticking their proverbial noses into this issue?
Or, are they 'studying' the issue until it quietly goes away?

Meanwhile, it's business as usual at Sunwing and Canjet.

Seems pretty damned quiet and awful one sided if you ask me.
Gilles?
Anyone?

Gino Under

[gonnabeapilot]

I honestly just think the government is looking at the issue from an entirely different perspective. By employing approximately 200 foreign pilots for 4 months, Sunwing has grown into a business that employs over a thousand Canadians, and indirectly employs thousands more. Sunwing supports of hundreds of businesses across the country as well.... travel agencies, fueling companies, catering companies etc... all of whom pay taxes. The one other big thing of note is that since Sunwing serves 33 Canadian gate-ways, these economic benefits are felt in a lot of the smaller communities across the country.... and one should never underestimate the power of the rural ridings in Ottawa. Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with the way the foreign pilot issue is currently unfolding... personally I would like to see a 1 for 1 agreement enforced... but what I am saying is that when you look at the big picture, it becomes quite evidient at why Ottawa doesn't have much of an appetite for dealing with this issue. Can Sunwing grow the business in the same way without the use of foreign pilots? I think they can but as long as they argue that the foreign pilots are a key component of their success and growth strategy, I don't think you'll be seeing much in the way of government action on this file.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Maybe this is where I should mention that in addition to the 65 pilot lay offs at Air Transat (reduced to 57 thanks to mitigation measures) the company also laid off 661 Flight Attendants. Some of these were due to normal seasonal lay offs, but because we returned 3 aircraft to the lessors so far, we can assume that at least 300 of those will not be coming back to fly this winter. Of course, as our fleet diminishes, which may happen again if we face more loses, we will downsize even more and lay off more and more employees, pilots, cabin crew, mechanics, office personnel etc.

If Sunwing can attribute its growth and ability to hire more Canadians to the hiring of foreign pilots, we can also make a similar case to the government and declare that Air Transat job loses and the increase of Canadians on EI on our side are a direct consequence of the Foreign crews at Sunwing.

If statistics were to show that Sunwings' business plan actually increased the overall number passengers during the winter and created employment, they will have a case. If on the other hand, the overall number of passengers stayed the same, and total sales remained stagnant, and all that their foreign crews allowed to is to have full time Canadian jobs that were held elsewhere transfer to EI, benefiting Sunwing's expansion with a bunch of part timers, many of which are foreign and pay no taxes in Canada, we cannot assume that those in Government will remain blind to the facts.

Sunwing announced 29 aircraft this winter. They only have 10 year round aircraft on their fleet, so 19 of those 29 will be short term dry leases and wet-leases, most of which will be operated by foreign crews. They have 170 Canadian pilots at the very most, 20 of which are short term contract pilots. Air Transat was at 430 full time year round Canadian pilots this year, now down to 373. For now.

[CanadaEH]

Gilles, the previous poster made a valid comment.

You've been speaking strictly about pilots; what about foreign FA's? Any idea?

[Legacy]

I honestly just think the government is looking at the issue from an entirely different perspective. By employing approximately 200 foreign pilots for 4 months, Sunwing has grown into a business that employs over a thousand Canadians, and indirectly employs thousands more. Sunwing supports of hundreds of businesses across the country as well.... travel agencies, fueling companies, catering companies etc... all of whom pay taxes. The one other big thing of note is that since Sunwing serves 33 Canadian gate-ways, these economic benefits are felt in a lot of the smaller communities across the country.... and one should never underestimate the power of the rural ridings in Ottawa. Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with the way the foreign pilot issue is currently unfolding... personally I would like to see a 1 for 1 agreement enforced... but what I am saying is that when you look at the big picture, it becomes quite evidient at why Ottawa doesn't have much of an appetite for dealing with this issue. Can Sunwing grow the business in the same way without the use of foreign pilots? I think they can but as long as they argue that the foreign pilots are a key component of their success and growth strategy, I don't think you'll be seeing much in the way of government action on this file.

To an extent i agree but this is short term thinking. Lets look at what could happen further down the road. Sunwing continues to get the competitive edge by continuing their practices. Transat has problems competing. Transat lays off. Transat discontinues service to some locations. Jobs lost from Transat and indirectly from Transat. So either way the potential for jobs being lost exists. Personally I look at it this way. Transat has provided jobs and supported the economy a heck of a lot longer than Sunwing. Make the playing field fair for Transat.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Gilles, the previous poster made a valid comment.

You've been speaking strictly about pilots; what about foreign FA's? Any idea?

The two B767s wet-leases that Sunwing used this summer and during the summer of 2011 made use of foreign F/A, AFAIK. But it goes much further than that. We all do our simulator at CAE in Montreal. Two 4 hours sessions, two times a year, times 430 pilots is a lot of business CAE gets from AT, in addition to initial training. I heard that this year, the Sunwing foreign pilots are doing their simulator in Vienna, where a couple Transport Canada inspectors went to certify the simulator. Last year, some of it was in Amsterdam I was told. Canjet signed a contract with a simulator company in Florida, although there is a Boeing 737-800 simulator right here in Montreal.
Then there is all the maintenance. Air Transat employs hundreds of Canadian Maintenance technicians who were maintaining our fleet of 23 aircraft year round. The 19 Sunwing aircraft that will come to Canada this winter on short term leases all do their heavy maintenance before coming and after leaving. They just do line checks and line maintenance in Canada. And those that are wet-leased are maintained by Foreign Maintenance technicians........
You ask that I also speak for the F/As but this trickles down to all levels of employees that airlines have. From CEOs down to those who make minimum pay. Everyone is affected when we are forced to downsize because our competition found a business model that allows it to have a cost structure much lower than ours............ , a model based on aircraft and employee dumping from Europe.

Is that business model in the best interest of Canada ? We will soon find out what the people in government think about that.

[ea306]

Hi Gilles,

Just a small bit of info re: B767 wet lease program. Although EAA provided their own Cabin Directors to meet their civil aviation authority's requirements; the rest of the Cabin Crew were Sunwing Flight Attendants and Sunwing Cabin Safety Managers. This did mitigate a number of seasonal layoffs for our cabin crew and provided year round employment that would not of been available otherwise.

In addition to this, more Cabin Crew have been hired across the country to fly on Sunwing aircraft as well as the Travel Service wet lease aircraft.

I honestly don't think the issue of utilizing Foreign Pilots can be also projected towards Cabin Crews in this discussion.

Our company is still growing and many new Cabin Crew have been hired across Canada for the winter. However many of our Cabin Crew also face seasonal layoffs in the summer in a similar manner as Air Transat Cabin Crew face layoffs in the winter season due to less demand.




ea306

[ea306]

Sunwing use Simulators in YUL as well as the others you mention.

It is a matter of meeting the training demand and the Simulator Time that is available. YUL is cost effective for the company (although not my favorite sim to work in unless it has improved over the last year).

We also use MIA & AMS a lot, which are good choices for logistical reasons. Last winter some training was also done in Las Vegas which was great for the Western Based guys & gals.

The sim in Amsterdam is well utilized when we are deployed to Europe as it is logistically much closer to where we are living and are based in the summer months.

[buzzjob]

Canjet also uses the YUL simulator for YUL based pilots mostly. Not enough time slots with one sim and 2 companies fighting for it. Plus zero backup for when this sim is down.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

This year Sunwing Wet-Leased four aircraft from Czech Travel Service. What I assume to be the first of the four, OK-TVT, a B-737-800, arrived on the 26th of Oct and has already begun it's flight schedule.

So far this season, three Travel Service aircraft have already been delivered to Sunwing: OK-TVG which became C-GTVG, OK-TVH which became C-GVVH, and finally OK-TVT which is flying under Czech registration.

The weird thing about all this, at least from my uninformed point of view, is that this summer, Sunwing wet-leased one Boeing 737-800 to Travel Service, C-FTDW, and until two days ago, that aircraft was still doing flights out of Warsaw on behalf of Travel Service. As far as I can tell, this aircraft is still not back in Canada. Sunwing wet-leases a 737-800 to Travel Service while Travel Service dry-leases 2 737-800 and wet-leases another to Sunwing......

Maybe it's staying in the Czech Republic for a C-Check or something...........

So right now Sunwing has 10 aircraft of its own, one of which is still in the Czech Republic, two aircraft on dry-lease and one Czech registered aircraft flying in Canada under a wet-lease......

Last year on this date, Sunwing had 12 aircraft in country, the exact same number it has today.

[Troubleshot]

Hi Gilles, keep up the good fight! All of Sunwing's aircraft are maintained by Canadian companies (AMO's) through-out the charter season regardless if they are foreign or Canadian registered. I know because I worked on them myself for 2 years on the east coast. The work only lasted 3.5 months though. Hard for AMO's to get 737 rated AME's to do the work when it is only for a short period too.

[confuzed]

Hi Gilles, keep up the good fight! All of Sunwing's aircraft are maintained by Canadian companies (AMO's) through-out the charter season regardless if they are foreign or Canadian registered. I know because I worked on them myself for 2 years on the east coast. The work only lasted 3.5 months though. Hard for AMO's to get 737 rated AME's to do the work when it is only for a short period too.

The next thing you know Sunwing will be bringing in foreign AMEs because they can't find Canadian ones! I definetely wouldn't put it past them these days.