Zee closed

[lost in the north]

Keystone off the side of zee runway...not sure of why or how.

[crazy_aviator]

Hmm, not enough fuel to get to zee terminal ?

[Darkwing Duck]

- 120434 26OCT12/1523-26OCT12/1900
CYTH KELSEY
CZEE RWY 12/30 CLSD DUE DISABLED ACFT
1210261523 TIL APRX 1210261900

[pdw]

Hmm, not enough fuel to get to zee terminal ?

Some day that topic ("enough fuel") will spark a great discussion thread. Surely not the case here.

A 'range' calculation is also affected by fuel-type, fuel-quality, fuel-age & fuel-temp, ... not to mention winds, temps (more warm-up fuel needed in colder WX), icing drag, and aircraft loading.

The old saying "never too much fuel on board unless you're on fire" is proven to be false many times by evidence of accidents (T.S.B reports) attributed in part to being overloaded by unnecessary fuel weight, ... unlike where an excess consumption rate (for any of those contributing reasons mentioned) unexpectedly shortens a reasonable (pre-calculated) range expectation a PIC gets accustomed-to.

[BverLuver]

pdw,

Perhaps "zee fuel" comment was lost on you being 'crazy_aviator' did not require the use of "wunderground" to make his comment.

sar·casm noun \ˈsär-ˌka-zəm\

Definition of SARCASM

1: a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain
2a : a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual
2b : the use or language of sarcasm


Examples of SARCASM

a voice full of sarcasm
<I know you're not happy, but there's no need to resort to petty sarcasms to make your point.>
“That was my favorite show yet this tour,” Banks says. “I love audiences that are ambivalent.” For a second, I think he's laying on the sarcasm, until he continues. “I really like the chance to win people over.” —David Peisner, Spin, August 2007
[+]more

Origin of SARCASM

French or Late Latin; French sarcasme, from Late Latin sarcasmos, from Greek sarkasmos, from sarkazein to tear flesh, bite the lips in rage, sneer, from sark-, sarx flesh; probably akin to Avestan thwarəs- to cut

BL

[pdw]

Thanks BL, understood zee reason for zee comment.

[crazy_aviator]

crazy_aviator is German BTW ( not fully ) Germans do make good engineers , maybe toooo good !

[Sidebar]

________ off the side of zee runway...not sure of why or how.

Your post was incorrect. Word is the aircraft was operated by Fast Air.

[raw_data]

It was Fast Air's King Air that went off the runway. Damage was substantial to engine and props. Management ended up firing the captain that crashed the plane and a captain that took off before the plane that crashed. Fast Air could be a great company if they were to review the number of pilots that have been wrongfully dismissed/terminated/fired. There is one manager here that's got to go. And this manager has a history of such abuses. Who's the next one to be terminated?

[Cat Driver]

By wrongfully fired do you mean the accident was caused by mechanical failure beyond the control of the pilot?

[Lurch]

By wrongfully fired do you mean the accident was caused by mechanical failure beyond the control of the pilot?

I suspect they meant this

and a captain that took off before the plane that crashed.

I can't figure out why you'd fire a Captain who wasn't even on the airplane

Lurch

[GyvAir]

Pure speculation, but maybe the runway was closed, or not in fit condition for use at the time of both the first take off and the one that resulted in a runway excursion?

[Doc]

It was Fast Air's King Air that went off the runway. Damage was substantial to engine and props. Management ended up firing the captain that crashed the plane and a captain that took off before the plane that crashed. Fast Air could be a great company if they were to review the number of pilots that have been wrongfully dismissed/terminated/fired. There is one manager here that's got to go. And this manager has a history of such abuses. Who's the next one to be terminated?

As long as there are better places to go (WestJet, AC, Jazz, etc., etc.,) the pilot's experience level in the kind of operation Fast Air runs will diminish. As experience levels diminish, these off runway excursions will increase in frequency. Just the way it is. IF you don't have pilots who have "been there, done that", through no fault of they're own, these things will happen. King Airs and skating rinks just don't mix. If you're going to fly around in this kind of weather, with these runway conditions, you'd better hire an extra sheet metal guy. An off runway excursion for the inexperienced, can be as simple as having one engine spool up quicker than the other. Cancel the flight (my choice) or be prepared to enlist the help of the local populace to tow the occasional aircraft back onto the odd runway.
To the "fire em all" manager, I say.......Show them how it's done....and if you can do better....fill your boots.

[AllClutch]

I'm surprised fast has the parts to cut anyone loose these days with the market way it is.
All of the Manitoba Medivac companies are hungry for Captains these days.
The mandatory 500 MPIC set forth by the government has made it so that it's tough to upgrade guys and created a market where anyone with Navajo time shits rainbows and farts sunshine.
Does someone want to message me the captains initials?

[raw deal]

What I can say is the captain of the king air not involved in the mishap is around fifty, 25 years of flying over
12000 hours experience with no accidents the most requested King Air
captain according to dispatch with not one customer complaint in nearly
five years. He has been an advocate for his peers which occaisionally put him on the outs with Management.
On the day inquestion he had no passangers on board. He was also following another Be 200 from a different CO, who
also landed and took off successfully. Snow clearing was in progress but
off the runway, two passes were made with a 26 foot blade, it was not icy
it was perhaps narrow for some, the length around 3000 feet. The captain who
crashed claimed mechanical failure. He had given his notice to the CO a
week and a half prior but they gave him a termination notice anyway.

[flyinhigh]

Gee Raw Dael sounds like you were the Capt let go.

Got all the info down that even us that are flying here don't know, that and the fact your
first post was bashing our company, combine that with the new name and well I know you.

For those that don't know Fast Air, It is a great company that demands common sense. They want you to make decisions on ones own knowledge level, not someone else's. If you don't do what your job entails, yes you will be called in and held accountable. Which some just don't like, eh Raw Deal.

My suggestion is take what was learn from this and learn it well, if you are to ignorant to do that than unfortunately you are doomed in this industry.

I hope the new gig is treatin ya well.

[raw deal]

I have never worked for Fast Air. I have only made one post. My name is raw deal not dael. I gathered my data from various concrete sources who tell me that 6 captains made the same decision on that day. I am not ignorant I am informed maybe you should be too. You might think you work for a great company and I am happy for you. I only report the accurate information I was given.

[eeffoc]

Flyinhigh you really are high on something if you are so gullible to believe that FA is an all around fantastic company. You just wait, after you have been there for some time as a pilot you will see that they don't backup or support their pilots. They have a long history of letting go pilots that have found themselves in difficult circumstances through no fault of their own. Its no secret that flying in northern MB, especially in the winter, is challenging and dangerous. The problem here is that FA places all the fall-out of the risk onto the back of the pilot knowing full well that these risks exist in the first place. The pilot is the fall-guy in every case and FA will not back you up even if you did everything right leading up to the moment where you slid on the ice, or also in this case just happened to land on the same runway that other aircraft were using without any problem. FA will continue to do this to make it appear to their customers and TC that they are proactive when it comes to safety. This is nothing more than a smoke screen to those who have worked there. I worked there some time ago and witnessed all of this first hand. Fortunately for me, I left for greener pastures before this sort of thing happened to me.
This is the nature of the business in MB. FA is not alone in this behaviour, SNA, Perimeter, Keystone, they have ALL treat pilots this way to keep themselves in business they will scapegoat the pilot every single time. Don't expect this to EVER change there, the owners are unscrupulous and don't care about you. This will go on and on because TC sees it, knows it, ignores it. The only recourse pilots have is to never work for any one of these companies, or as most already do, just work there for as little time (at your own risk) and get the hell out when you have enough experience to move on to a better business.

[Koopa]

This is the nature of the business in MB. FA is not alone in this behaviour, SNA, Perimeter, Keystone, they have ALL treat pilots this way to keep themselves in business they will scapegoat the pilot every single time. Don't expect this to EVER change there, the owners are unscrupulous and don't care about you. This will go on and on because TC sees it, knows it, ignores it. The only recourse pilots have is to never work for any one of these companies, or as most already do, just work there for as little time (at your own risk) and get the hell out when you have enough experience to move on to a better business.

In over 4 years flying for Perimeter, I was never once worried about being hung out to dry by the company in the event of an incident. Careful who you're lumping into your fairly broad statement.