AIRAF temporary cpl issue

[burtondude]

Hey everyone, I went to book my AIRAF exam today and ran into a problem with transport canada, they said I can't write it. I was issued my temporary cpl on August 31 and still do not have my transport canada issued CPL. As far as transport is concerned I still only have a ppl so I am not eligible to write the exam. But I do have a CPL its just a temporary one. Has anyone dealt with this issue before. I want to write the exam and keep moving forward and waiting another month in the worst case situation really does not help. I called every transport number I could find and got transferred around and around and just ended up leaving messages with everyone I got transferred to. to Any ideas, it would be greatly appreciated!

421.69 Class 4 - Aeroplane - Requirements

(1) Prerequisites

(a) Before commencing flight training for the Class 4 Instructor Rating - Aeroplane, an applicant shall hold a Commercial or Airline Transport Pilot Licence - Aeroplane and have completed either:

(i) a minimum of 200 hours total time including 20 hours instrument time, of which a minimum of 10 hours shall be instrument flight time; or
(amended 2006/12/14; previous version)

(ii) the commercial pilot licence - aeroplane/instrument rating (CPL(A)/IR) integrated course.
(amended 2006/12/14; previous version)

(b) Before commencing ground school instruction for the Class 4 Instructor Rating - Aeroplane, an applicant shall have successfully completed the written examination and flight test for the Commercial Pilot Licence - Aeroplane.
(amended 2006/12/14; previous version)

[fozzi]

I think you should call Transport again and see if they can process your license first. I remember I didn't get my license within 90 days of my sign off. Turns out the instructor who signed off my CPL didn't sent in the documents until a few weeks later. I called Transport and told them the temporary will be expired soon so they said they'll process mine that day. In less than a week I got my sticker.

[burtondude]

Thanks for the advice, TC said there was no way to speed up my application, I tried asking everyone who I talked to, maybe tomorrow I can twist someones arm.

[fozzi]

Oh that sucks..Maybe I happened to speak to someone who's actually responsible for processing licenses. She put me on hold and found my application in her pile and told me she'd get it done that day. It was the Toronto Yonge Street office that I called. Good luck!

[DanWEC]

Oh that sucks..Maybe I happened to speak to someone who's actually responsible for processing licenses. She put me on hold and found my application in her pile and told me she'd get it done that day. It was the Toronto Yonge Street office that I called. Good luck!

Ditto for me me on my CPL. Temporary was about to expire. Squeaky wheel.

Slightly absurd that you have to call to get them to do their own job in their own alloted period in the first place however.

[YYZSaabGuy]

Slightly absurd that you have to call to get them to do their own job in their own alloted period in the first place however.

Agreed.......also absurd that fozzi's instructor set aside his sign-off rather than sending it in immediately.
Imagine what a great place the world would be if people just did their damn jobs!

[Colonel Sanders]

the instructor who signed off my CPL didn't sent in the documents until a few weeks later

That's a no-no. AP is supposed to put it in the mail within 3 days.

if people just did their damn jobs

He's probably doing it for free, and sometimes you get what
you pay for.

[Shiny Side Up]

That's a no-no. AP is supposed to put it in the mail within 3 days.

The Authorized person Guide specifies that they must be done within five days. Curiously, TC has not seen fit to have this available online, I had to dig in my mountain of paper to make sure I could contest this post.

He's probably doing it for free, and sometimes you get what
you pay for.

Technically the guide, while it specifies a timeframe that a submission must be made, it does not specify whom is responsible for making sure it actually gets sent in. They could bounce an application which was postmarked outside the five days, but I've never heard of this happening. I make known to any applicants that I process that I do not send them in that very day that its done, since most require me to trot down to the post office and have them weighed as parcels, particularly for CPL applications these days. Most are content with this, since I also foot the bill for said postage, those who aren't I offer that they themselves can race down there and have it done if they figure a day or two is going to make a difference to how fast they get their paper in their hot little hands.

Oh that sucks..Maybe I happened to speak to someone who's actually responsible for processing licenses. She put me on hold and found my application in her pile and told me she'd get it done that day. It was the Toronto Yonge Street office that I called. Good luck!

Ditto for me me on my CPL. Temporary was about to expire. Squeaky wheel.

Slightly absurd that you have to call to get them to do their own job in their own alloted period in the first place however.

I would always caution people about thinking that they are going to be able to hassle the licensing officers into putting their application to the top of the pile unless it has gotten down to the end of the ninety days working time. I had a few students who figured they could do some badgering like TC was the customer service department at WalMart and those ended up being two of the biggest head ache applications I ever had to deal with.

If you must call them, be prepared. Make sure you know your TC file number, the date the application was done and should have been submitted by (remember within five days). For some reason if you ask the people in licensing to look up your file and get them to search only on your name they have a standard "we have nothing on you" reply, which of course freaks people out. Ask me how I know.

[burtondude]

I finally managed to get ahold of TC, the lady I talked to was very helpful. TC will not let you write the airaf while having a temp license in the event your cpl application has a problem and can't be issued, seems overly cautiously in my opinion. There are 14 applications to be processed ahead of mine, no time line given on the time to process but at least I know where I stand. Once my application has been processed I can write the exam, hopefully in a weeks time, no idea how long it takes to process 14 licenses.

[Colonel Sanders]

The Authorized person Guide specifies that they must be done within five days

Actually, Shiny, I think we are both wrong.

The AP manual for SPP says:

"Within three (3) days following the issue of the permit,
the following documents must be forwarded to TC ..."

That's probably where I got the 3 days.

However if we look at the AP manual for RPP/PPL/CPL/Multi/Seaplane
it says:

"The same day the certification of temporary
privileges is completed, the following documents must be
forwarded to TC ..."

Not sure where your 5 days comes from, but TC says
3 days for SPP, same day for everything else.

So, it looks like you're going to have to start making
more trips down to the Post Office, every day you
sign something off.

I guess that's why the FTU's pay the AP's the big bucks!!

[Colonel Sanders]

no idea how long it takes to process 14 licenses

This probably won't make you feel any better, but ....

A long time ago - probably before you were born - when
Toronto processed my commercial licence, it took around
6 months, if memory serves. I think I had to get two
temporary permits because they kept expiring. And then
they lost my logbook.

There is a lady in Toronto at 4900 Yonge St - I won't
use her name here, people will know who I mean - who
is a superstar at this kind of thing. She makes stuff
happen right now.

[Shiny Side Up]

The Authorized person Guide specifies that they must be done within five days

Actually, Shiny, I think we are both wrong.

The AP manual for SPP says:

"Within three (3) days following the issue of the permit,
the following documents must be forwarded to TC ..."

That's probably where I got the 3 days.

However if we look at the AP manual for RPP/PPL/CPL/Multi/Seaplane
it says:

"The same day the certification of temporary
privileges is completed, the following documents must be
forwarded to TC ..."

Not sure where your 5 days comes from, but TC says
3 days for SPP, same day for everything else.

That's not what my copy of that says. Each of the applications are identical in their entries where under section 5. Documents it says, and quoting directly:

Within five days following the certification of temporary licencing privileges the following documents shall be forwarded to the Regional Office:

My copy is labeled November 2006, but an older copy that I have from 1997 still has the same wording.

So, it looks like you're going to have to start making
more trips down to the Post Office, every day you
sign something off.

Ain't going to, if that's a problem they can come take my privileges away.

I guess that's why the FTU's pay the AP's the big bucks!!

Ha-ha.

[Colonel Sanders]

My copy is labeled November 2006

I got my quotes from the November 2009 Guide.

[Shiny Side Up]

Well then I stand corrected.

Still ain't going to do it.

[Colonel Sanders]

You are an evil person, Shiny!

When you die, you certainly aren't going to Paperwork Heaven.

[Shiny Side Up]

I thought I died a long time ago and reside in paperwork hell. It is merely par for the course though that my demonic overseers have not seen fit to provide me with current information on how to do my paperwork, so that they can later on punish me for doing it wrong. Not the first time, not the last.