Piaggio Avanti in Ice

[bstock]

Can anyone comment on how this aircraft performs in icing conditions, and/or how it compares to other aircraft in this respect. General comments on any unique aspects of this aircraft from anyone who has had the opportunity to fly it will also be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[CamAero]

I guess as the canards and the fuse and / or wings shed ice, it gets blasted through the props?

[yycflyguy]

Been awhile but if memory serves (rarely does anymore).

The forward wing (canard) uses an electrical blanket, the main wings used bleed air heat and the tail was not ice protected.

I flew it in the fall/winter time through icing conditions but never encountered moderate icing so I can't comment on how it handles heavier conditions.

The nice thing about this turboprop is that you can cruise clear of icing in the FL300s as apposed to other turboprops operating in the FL200s.

[CAL]

get a jet....same price....or close

[trey kule]

Ah, but there is a bit more to it....it cruises faster than any jet in its price range I think. Bigger and more comfortable cabin. Better climb rate....and let's face it.....it is a Ferrari.

The biggest drawback is flying in the US, as you are at Cleveland competing with the bigger faster guys and get vectored around a bit it let them pass.

[yycflyguy]

get a jet....same price....or close

New P180's are more expensive than small business jets (LR35, CI, CII etc) but the operating costs are significantly less. I vaguely remember cruising at around 500lbs per hour total fuel consumption. It could get in/out of short strips that business jets could not while able to do 375Kts TAS at FL290. It's a remarkable machine.

As pointed out, the cabin is much more spacious and comfortable.

[bstock]

With the lower operating cost, fast cruise speed, and short field capabilities (compared to small jets of course), why do you think we don't see more of these things in canada? Is it strictly the price tag of these machines, or do you think the unorthodox (yet more efficient) design could have anything to do with it? In your opinion, do passengers have any reservations about boarding something that looks so futuristic?

Also, any comments from anyone who has flown this machine in any type of significant icing would be appreciated.

[fish4life]

would the props take rocks from the wheels on gravel?

[co-joe]

My limited understanding is that we don't see more of them around because their range is not so good, and they need more runway than other turboprops in their size.

You can't really compare a prop to a jet in a customer's eyes so you have to compare it to other turboprops.

Basically if you want a jet, you want a jet. Getting talked into a turboprop generally isn't going to happen even if it means less cost and less time in the seat because having a jet is more prestigious.

I was told once the RCMP had them but it didn't have enough range to extradite someone from Mexico to Canada without stopping in the states. You stop in the states, you clear customs. If the prisoner has warrants in the states, the us takes your prisoner from you...

[DanWEC]

I may stand to be corrected, but aren't there strips (such as CYKZ for example) that have opposed use by Piaggio's due to their noise footprint? (Sorry for the thread drift.)

[flyingcatfish]

Great airplane, never had to worry about collecting ice on the props. Wasn't gravel certified so you didn't have to worry about going into crappy strips, and minimum temperature for takeoff was -30C i think, so if it got too cold you didn't go flying!

[fish4life]

Great airplane, never had to worry about collecting ice on the props. Wasn't gravel certified so you didn't have to worry about going into crappy strips, and minimum temperature for takeoff was -30C i think, so if it got too cold you didn't go flying!

So useless for a Canadian operator ?

[youflyboyscrackmeup]

Great airplane!

The Piaggio handles ice well. As stated before the aircrafts climb performance is great so you are never in icing for long. When you enter icing conditions and ice is detected the ice detection system alerts you that ice has been detected and advises your if any of your anti ice systems are not operating.

When landing in icing conditions runway lengh is increased due to not being able to extend full flap which increses Vref by a few knots. This on top of a lack of anti-skid brakes keeps your attention up but it is all manageable. Forget short runways when it is raining or snowing.

I would rather be flying this is then any other turboprop.

Let me know if you want any more specific info.

Fish4life....I would say useless for any Northern Operater....But around the paved runway part of the country it is almost jet speed for half the gas and a hell of alot of fun to fly....

[fish4life]

Until I read -30 T/O limit I was thinking it would be an awesome replacement for a lot of those medivac jets

[Ethanol]

get a jet....same price....or close

more close than anything, smaller but pretty sophisticated.
had the pleasure of flying IN one smoother ride but would prefer like a smaller lear jet perhaps