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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:37 am 
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Planning to send my son who is 18 to do the Integrated Professional Commercial Pilot course in July.
He has 16 HRS TTL with under One hour of Solo .
Any Comments and or help will be highly appreciated.



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:14 am 
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Good school, good facilities, good people, he will have a good time and get good training.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:29 am 
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He's a lucky guy! You make sure he knows that! If you want to adopt any more CPL wannbes, you've come to the right forum.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:20 pm 
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I'm in that program right now. I don't have a whole lot to compare it to, but I'm quite satisfied with the program so far, and I'm very nearly done. Good facilities, nice aircraft, great instructors. If you've got any questions, don't hesitate to PM me.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:35 am 
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If you search more i think you can find better facilities than WWFC.. The person who started the program is not there any more.. program still exists.. they alos have conestoga college program. (general arts and science)
Prices of the Aircraft and instructors per hour are more expensive around big cities espacially in south west ontario. Beware of the hidden charges.. some schools have hidden charges .. For example in WWFC.. prices do not include the insurence surcharge and insurence waiver... and then they'll surprise you when you're paying your bill.. The other thing is the "club membership".. It's expensive and have nothing special to offer.. but it is sometimes different for other clubs. e.i. if you are a member at brampton you can take advantage of alot of things.... Customer service is also very important .. we sometimes forget that students and their parents are customres and they spend alot of money .. How would you feel if you spend thousands of $ in some sort of store and the manager walk to your face and acts totaly rude and un-profesional, because all he/she cares is profit not satisfaction. you will notice the lack of customer service at the flight center. Last but more important , you want to know that your instructor has ability or i should say the power to decide when you are ready to do your flight test or TC written tests.. Well apperently that doesn't happen in WWFC. If the school maneger doesn't trust to his instructors, how are you going to trust to that facility and their flight training system? I also want to mention that instructors are working hard at wwfc but they get nothing in return and like anyother school they've got good hard working instructors and the ones that are new and learning.. And please don't get me wrong I'm not trying to say anything about the instructors. (BAD OR GOOD)
Good things about it is the airport itself.. it's controlled, long runways and good controllers with lots of patience.
I think you should go for a visit . And compare couple of schools and flight training units and go from there. I'm sure there are bad things and good things in every flight training unit, but you have to see which one is the most beneficial for your son and your pocket.
Good luck and i think you son is a very lucky young man.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:00 am 
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meow wrote:
The person who started the program is not there any more..

For example in WWFC.. prices do not include the insurence surcharge and insurence waiver... and then they'll surprise you when you're paying your bill..


Two out of three of the program's developers are still instructing at WWFC.

As for the surcharges, the surcharge is $5 an hour, every hour, and the waiver is $2 an hour when you're flying solo. Doesn't sound like much but it adds up to roughly $1200 over the course of the program.



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:59 am 
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Location: Hamilton
Check out other schools in the area (YHM) too.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 1:47 pm 
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meow wrote:
...Customer service is also very important .. Last but more important , you want to know that your instructor has ability or i should say the power to decide when you are ready to do your flight test or TC written tests.. Well apperently that doesn't happen in WWFC. If the school maneger doesn't trust to his instructors, how are you going to trust to that facility and their flight training system?...Good things about it is the airport itself.. it's controlled, long runways and good controllers with lots of patience.


hey meow!!!....meeeeeoowwww!!! :D :D :D

...you forgot to mention that wwfc has great coffee...yup great coffee. thats why i fly there cuz of the coffee....mmmmmmm!!!



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 Post subject: WWFC
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:41 am 
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Currently in the summer term of the Conestoga College program. To date I am very satisfied with the program. The WWFC is a awesome facility, with top notch instructors and aircraft!
Conestoga College is a beautiful institution with great teachers. During the school year we have classes from 8:30 - 4:30 3 days per week. 2 days are spent dedicated to the Flight Centre. Work load is intense, but manageable.

In the past students have trailed off the program due to lack of structure. This program has been recently overhauled and problem areas have been fixed. Most students are successful and are meeting all flight hour benchmarks. Having term flight hour standards are keeping everyone on track. Having set out "Flying Days" at the WWFC ensure students get regular access to instructors and aircraft.

Attending Conestoga College the student finishes quickly. The student will walk out with a Commercial multi-IFR license and college diploma in 2 years, versus 3-4 years at other institutions.

Overall, GREAT program

I realize the customer service issue. Although there is 1 nut case, the several other dispatch employees are very pleasant and helpful.

Having high club standards for TC written exams and flight tests is very important. Ensures you will be successful when the time comes for the real exams. The student must score 80% or higher on the pre-flight test and sample written exams to continue.

Any questions please ask



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:53 pm 
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I think he means the stand alone Integrated Program, which is a little different in terms of where things take place, but the outcome is the same, minus the diploma. The Conestoga Program really has come a long way though, mostly because it's now sort of a combination of the old Conestoga program and the original ICPP.

For an 18 year old, I'd suggest that the Conestoga program is worth the added expense and time, because that diploma could make the difference between him and another applicant for a job somewhere down the line. The flight training portion of the Conestoga program is slightly less intense than the stand alone program, because it's the same training spread over a longer period of time, but the added academic requirements sort of look after the difference.

In my case, going through the college program (and then the stand alone integrated - so more or less the exact same thing the current college program is now except I didn't fly for the first 8 months) made securing funding for my flight training far easier and less costly in the long run. May or may not be an issue in this case, but it's just another thing to think about before the final decision is made.



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 Post subject: Re: WWFC
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:00 pm 
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turkey20 wrote:
The WWFC is a awesome facility, with top notch instructors and aircraft!



Alright, now for an impartial oppinion. 25 year old cessna's with one radio and an ADF does NOT constitude "top notch aircraft"


For the rest of you plugging the conestoga college course, realize his intentions are to send his son to the integrated programme, not to the college.

Meow had some good points, included in this were the facts about the airport itself. Long runways, good tower staff and just busy enough to learn how to deal with other people in the circuit are all a plus.

I've talked to a number of people who have gone through, or are in the integrated programme and they all seem to enjoy themselves and feel they're getting a good learning experience while there, havn't really heard too many serious complaints.

The aircraft are on par for most flight schools in the area, and prices are competative. I would have to say that the level of flight instruction has gradually decreased a bit, however i've not flown with a number of the new guys in there so my oppinion is just based on talking to others. There are still quite a few good instructors there; who are there to teach, and not just pass the time until another job opens up.

If you have the opportunity, i would suggest taking an unexpected tour of the facility, it is very pleasant, and the food at the restaurant is usually very good. But see for yourself what they offer, and meet a few of the students/instructors/management while you're there.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:24 pm 
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ya i wouldn't say the aircraft there are top notch, even their new 172SP gets abused by renters. However the state of the aircraft make for a good challenge and flying experience. Can't complain, as long as the engine is working for takeoff and landing its all good. :lol: The prices have gone up a bit, but are still cheaper than most schools I have looked at.


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 Post subject: Re: WWFC
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:46 pm 
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Wadd wrote:
Alright, now for an impartial oppinion. 25 year old cessna's with one radio and an ADF does NOT constitude "top notch aircraft"


I agree with you on this, but what's the sense of learning to do spins and stalls in an aircraft with a fully equipped IFR cockpit? Half the fleet is quite obviously geared towards initial training, half is well equipped for the more advanced stuff. It's not "top notch" but it's well maintained and 20+ year old Cessnas are sort of common in the training industry 8).

WWFC has pretty typical equipment for a flight school. It's neither special enough to really attract students to the place on that factor alone (unless you've got a thing for retractable singles), nor is it so old and out dated that it should "scare" people away.



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:35 am 
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I would definately reccomend sending your son to the Commercial aviation Management Program at the University of Western Ontario if your son is looking to do an ICPL.

It's the only degree program in Canada where you can get flight training included as part of the curriculum. Though a word of caution, if business and economics disagree with your son then you may be better off forgetting the idea.


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 Post subject: Re: WWFC
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:37 am 
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turkey20 wrote:

I realize the customer service issue. Although there is 1 nut case, the several other dispatch employees are very pleasant and helpful.



The 'nut case' does have good intentions. Just hafta keep telling myself that.

*calm blue ocean. calm blue ocean. calm blue ocean*

There are many good instructors at WWFC, and enough variety to be able to find one that will work for you. The aircraft may be a little antiquated, but are on par with most training facilities in the area. If you're looking for brand new aircraft all with GPS, try a place like Empire, in London. If you're looking for a little more relaxed club atmosphere, WWFC is a good place.

Cheers
Flap



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 Post subject: Re: WWFC
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:45 pm 
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Flap wrote:
turkey20 wrote:

I realize the customer service issue. Although there is 1 nut case, the several other dispatch employees are very pleasant and helpful.



The 'nut case' does have good intentions. Just hafta keep telling myself that.


hey flap how many biznisses do u know that operate on "good intentions'? if a person with "good intentions" does his/her work but drives customers away i'll be giving him/her a few chances to remediate. after that they're walking. :?



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:56 pm 
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That person isn't the only thing driving customers away. Point taken, Dyck Hertz, I only meant....well it doesn't matter. I definately agree with you that something needs to change. Part of the problem is that that person is the only one who knows how to do most of the stuff at the front counter (that person's unconscious version of job security?). If they were to leave immediately, WWFC would sort of implode for a while, I'd bet. Problems, problems.

Peace Out.



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:16 pm 
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Flap wrote:
Part of the problem is that that person is the only one who knows how to do most of the stuff at the front counter (that person's unconscious version of job security?).


Nail, meet hammer.



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:35 am 
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costermonger wrote:
Flap wrote:
Part of the problem is that that person is the only one who knows how to do most of the stuff at the front counter (that person's unconscious version of job security?).


Nail, meet hammer.





okay, yeah, that just made me laugh out loud at work... not good
8)


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 Post subject: Re: WWFC
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:07 am 
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Not to diss any of the schools at YKF, but our AMO is there, and I occasionally fly out of there. If I were going to suggest an airport, it wouldn't be there.

Wadd wrote:
Long runways, good tower staff and just busy enough to learn how to deal with other people in the circuit are all a plus.


YKF is a Class D zone, so you really don't have to deal with other traffic in the circuit; the tower provides separation, and tells you what and when to do everything; taxi, takeoff, crosswind, base, final. But, that's at every D and C control zone I guess. I just think it takes some of the 'thinking and learning' away from the students.

Also, in the summer the airport is very busy, and I've seen those poor souls stacked 6..7...8 planes deep on the taxiway waiting for takeoff clearance...all on the students dime of course.

So, like I said, nothing against the establishments there, cause I wouldn't know, but sometimes you can learn more, and be more dollar-productive at a less busy airport, say, without a tower or maybe even a class E ..then you get the experience of talking to a tower, but still be able to make your own decisions.

fwiw, imho.



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:41 am 
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trained at brampton, no tower and same problem there, 9 planes in the circuit, 5 mile final and 4 planes lines up trying to get into the circuit. disaster really! once you start doing your multi and multi ifr, ykf has the facilities u need, VOR, ILS. Multi is pretty pricey and some schools such as brampton and guelph use the facilities at ykf, so you'd be saving yourself some cash for sure not having to travel to another airport. that was one of the factors that helped me decide on WWFC.


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