Cessna 175 in Cache County-Utah, Onboard Video

[Oxi]

Pretty interesting!

News Link
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-575 ... ane-crash/

YouTube

[Colonel Sanders]

I don't see any skis.

Do people think the laws of physics have changed recently?

[crazy horse]

"I knew we'd be fine."

[Colonel Sanders]

I know most people don't like geared engines
but did that poor airplane really deserve that?!

PS There are some valuable lessons to learn
from this, though I doubt many people care.

1) never land on wheels on an unprepared
surface that you have not personally walked
or have somehow verified that the surface is
firm and hard and capable of supporting the
aircraft. Even with skiis you can get yourself
into a world of hurt if the snow is soft and
deep enough, or you break through the topwater.

2) notice what a short distance the aircraft
used, to come to a complete stop. The story
is all there in the snow on the video. Yes, it
trashed the airplane, but despite using only
around 50 feet or so to stop, the occupants
appear unharmed. The reason why is that the
aircraft was kept under control until impact
and touched down with minimum vertical
speed and minimum kinetic energy.

Again, most people don't care about learning
from accidents, and prefer to crash airplanes
themselves, but taking a long shot that you
might care, you can learn from this.

I think we can do without the "good job" chant
on this one, too.

[Siddley Hawker]

1) never land on wheels on an unprepared
surface that you have not personally walked
or have somehow verified that the surface is
firm and hard and capable of supporting the
aircraft.

Agreed.

[PilotDAR]

Complete speculation on my part, but maybe the pilot had no intention of attempting to land, but rather just to low fly in a wide open area. Like a glassy water landing, he suddenly had no idea how high he was, and whether he was going up or down. The flash of the shadow of the wing just before the crash seemed way too brief to be what one would see during a flare, particularly during a cautionary landing onto an unbroken surface.

Added to that, particularly on older 100 series Cessnas, the nosewheel hangs down a long way, and further than the mains in cruise. If you fly the plane onto the surface without flaring, striking the nosewheel first is a certainty. Seeing as the wreck had no nosewheel at all, I suspect that's what happened. A flared "landing" onto the snow still might have bent the nosewheel back, but not likely torn it right away.

Yeah, the surface would not support a wheel landing, I think that was secondary. A long time ago, when I was very much less wise, I flew the same way up a frozen lake in a wheel 182. I suddenly realized I had no idea of my AGL, and climbed. To this day, I don't know how close I came, but I never forgot, and never did it again (out in the middle )!

[old_man]

So did I understand the video correctly that he picked up carb ice and did a forced landing to a snowy field where he flipped it? It's late at night and I could be seeing things but doesn't it look like his flaps are up?

[burhead1]

I read, they had carb ice then the engine quit. Then looked for a place to land, flaps? Would have slowed the GS.

Pilot Lynn Goodsell turned on the carburetor heater, but the engine shut down. Goodsell began reviewing his emergency checklist, and searched for an impromptu landing spot below.

[EPR]

I agree....full flaps on short final...should be instinct on a forced landing!

[looproll]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDQVN_G1bM4

the video was pulled, but above is the copyright claimants original

there was a very nice looking highway on the right side of the plane

[pelmet]

He had a long straight road but instead he chose to land in an area guanteed to flip you over. I would have gone for the road myself. They were pretty high as well. Probably enough time to choose a better stretch of road. Lots of surrounding fields to land in if you find a vehicle in your way.

[AEROMONKEY]

Why wouldn't he land on a road?

[iflyforpie]

He did the right thing. Everybody walked away.

With a road, you never know if there is going to be a car oncoming at the last second... or a stretch of power lines.. or light standards... or deep ditches on either side should you be unable to maintain directional control.

How many of you were taught to choose a road during forced approach training?

[Shiny Side Up]

He made the right choice, just failed at the test of skill. You can land in some really terrible stuff and keep the Cessna right side up. Having some time on floats and skis helps knowing what to do. Roads are almost always second choice for me, I'd have to know there was a lot of snow in that field to not choose it. But then again, being a farm kid I can be discerning about how nice the field is going to be to land in.

If you have trouble landing on pavement as it is, well then any sort of non pavement is going to give you trouble.

[iflyforpie]

Sure, but the trouble non-pavement is going to get you is like what was in the video, a bent airplane. On the road it has the potential to be more catastrophic.

Also, I'm thinking average private pilot skills here. The average private pilot thinks a 75 foot wide strip is pretty narrow... what are they going to think of a two lane highway or half a divided freeway that is 25-30 feet wide with wing shearing obstacles both sides and wires overhead? Lots of private pilots have trouble making a quarter section field... how are they going to spot land on a road? Then there is the traffic.

Of course, here in BC, there is often no choice but a road... and I actually make a point to look for and commit to memory as many roads as I can that are suitable for landing, from straight and wide logging roads to highway stretches that are devoid of overhead wires.

[Redneck_pilot86]

I don't know that I agree with taking a field over a road...

A road is going to be relatively solid vs the unknown surface of the field, especially with deep snow.
A road is going to allow rescuers access a whole lot quicker and easier.
You can potentially depart from a road once the cause of the forced approach is remedied.


Power lines can pose a problem, sure. But they could just as easily pose a problem on approach to a field.
Road signs, at leas the larger ones, are generally farther from the centerline of a road than the wingspan. Smaller road signs will bend.
Sure a low time pilot may feel that 75 feet is narrow, but they are still trained to land on the centerline, are they not? Should be no different landing on a road, especially a nice paved one with a line drawn down the middle.
Traffic is totally situation dependent and may require you to land off the road, but I certainly wouldn't rule out the road landing in any scenario based on what might be a problem in some.

I have done a lot of landings and takeoffs on gravel roads, generally with high trees on both sides. Yes, these roads were assessed for obstacles from the ground first, but the landing in itself is just another landing.

[Shiny Side Up]

Sure, but the trouble non-pavement is going to get you is like what was in the video, a bent airplane. On the road it has the potential to be more catastrophic.

Indeed, wasn't disagreeing with your assessment there. By pavement was referring to a runway, which people already seem to have trouble landing on, they don't have a hope in hell of pulling off a landing not on one. Hence why the field is always their best choice - like the old RAF training manual advises: when a crash seems inevitable try to direct the airplane out of harms way. A field generally is going to make a survivable crash. Not to sound like I advocate crashing airplanes. On the note of roads people often forget that a typical gravel road is only about 20' across and crowned, in winter really icy too, just to up the difficulty. Know a few people who've hurt themselves really bad trying to make a small bit of road instead of a big open field right beside it.

[old_man]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cADa4JLF6XU

Roads can present some challenges.

[into the blue]

Yes, maybe this wasn't the best outcome, but what matters the most is that everyone got out unharmed. I also applaud the passengers for the complete absence of panic they displayed. As far as the subject of carb icing is concerned, though, I would like to remind that in addition to the obvious actions that should be performed in this kind of situation (carb heat on, throttle full open, prop full fine), don't forget to lean the mixture to peak EGT if the engine is still developing some power (or at least get as close you can get to the peak without spending too much time on it), and close your cabin heating valve if it is supplied with hot air from the same shroud as the induction airbox. All this will ensure the carburetor receives the maximum amount of heat available. By the way, if you look at the panel after the crash, you'll notice the mixture control was apparently neglected and remained at full rich.

I've lately been flying only injected engines; it's great to not have to worry about induction icing in VMC.

[Cat Driver]

(carb heat on, throttle full open, prop full fine)

Why would you open the throttle fully and put the prop in full fine to get rid of carb ice?

[into the blue]

Cat, if you already have an unwanted restriction to airflow due to ice adhering to the walls of the venturi and intake risers, why would you not want to minimize the restriction created by a partially closed butterfly valve? Not to mention that opening the throttle and increasing RPM will give you the maximum amount of power and heat from exhaust gases that the engine can possibly develop in that situation.

[Cat Driver]

Carb ice causes a loss of power by restricting the amount of air and fuel in the venturi.

Generally this happens in cruise flight at cruise power.

I have found that when a loss of power is noticed by a drop in manifold pressure the first thing to do is apply full carb heat and wait for the ice to melt and the engine will return to the power setting you had before the ice formed.

If the throttle is full open and the prop is full fine you are going to have an engine putting out maximum power at maximum rpm when the ice melts that you now have to reduce.

The only time I ever put the prop in full fine in a piston powered airplane is just prior to take off and at the flare when I close the throttles for the landing.

[photofly]

It's in the mighty 182 poh to put the prop full fine during an inadvertent encounter with icing, the higher speed shedding more ice off the prop. I don't know if that's generic good advice.

[Cat Driver]

Are we talking about both prop ice and carb ice at the same time?

If we are then the next thing we need to examine is how did you get both prop and carb ice at the same time.

And this event was in a Cessna 175.

[BTyyj]

Carb icing doesn't mean there is ice forming on the prop.