What ,do you think, should be next...

This forum has been developed to discuss aviation related topics.

Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, I WAS Birddog

Post Reply
Tom H
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 671
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:29 pm

What ,do you think, should be next...

Post by Tom H »

Time for a serious question...

Tell us which one aircraft from our internal acquisition list:
1) Curtis Model D headless pusher
2) Curtis Canuck constructed for internal floor display
3) Dehavilland Cirrus Moth constructed for internal floor display
4) AVRO Avian constructed for internal floor display
5) Hawker Hurricane or representation for internal floor display
6) Bell P-39 or representation for internal floor display

And which one for from our external acquisition list:
1) Curtis Canuck look a like for external display
2) DC-3 to be acquired and restored for external display
3) Canadair Sabre (any Mark) for external display
4) CF-5 to be acquired and restored for external display
5) CF-18 to be acquired and restored for external display

Should be next...

With the Starfighter due to arrive in the next 7 to 10days and the Bristol Freighter due late this year it's time to start planning "what's next".

Bearing in mind acquisitions are as much about opportunity as anything we still need to plan and work towards the aircraft we need.

Also important is our mandate, at the main museum site it is "The history of Edmonton and Blatchford Field/City Centre Airport".

Your thoughts?

Tom
---------- ADS -----------
 
toelessjoe
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 329
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:54 pm

Re: What ,do you think, should be next...

Post by toelessjoe »

Yes, I have a thought. My job sucks and I want to hang out with you and some actual cool airplanes for a while, that's my thought. :smt040 :smt040

- Toeless.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
x-wind
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 739
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 10:23 pm
Location: Around

Re: What ,do you think, should be next...

Post by x-wind »

The Bell P-39 peaked my interest from the internal list. I'm not sure about the external displace. Except I would be pretty cool flying that Fleet Model 80 Canuck and giving rides in it.

My two cents.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Son_of_dad
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:02 am

Re: What ,do you think, should be next...

Post by Son_of_dad »

Hands down....

Canuck
Sabre

IMHO
---------- ADS -----------
 
Tailwind W10
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:46 am

Re: What ,do you think, should be next...

Post by Tailwind W10 »

Certainly all these aircraft are important to the museum, but the P-39 conjures images of the hordes of Aircobras passing through on lend-lease. Just to add a thought a diorama of the airfield with dozens (hundreds?) of )-39s lining the runways would be pretty cool as part of a display.

On a side note; are there any A-20 / Bostons available? Such an aircraft would have both a 418 Squadron and a Lend Lease angle in Edmonton's history.

Gerry
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Shiny Side Up
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5335
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:02 pm
Location: Group W bench

Re: What ,do you think, should be next...

Post by Shiny Side Up »

I'd vote for the P-39 as well.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Tom H
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 671
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:29 pm

Re: What ,do you think, should be next...

Post by Tom H »

Hi Tailwind
On a side note; are there any A-20 / Bostons available? Such an aircraft would have both a 418 Squadron and a Lend Lease angle in Edmonton's history.
Unfortunately the Boston is almost extinct and the ones left, even wrecks astronomically expensive.

The other problem is size...with the impending restrictions on site...we've got no place to put it.

You are right about lend lease and 418 though
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
YYZSaabGuy
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 851
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:32 am
Location: On glideslope.

Re: What ,do you think, should be next...

Post by YYZSaabGuy »

Son_of_dad wrote:Hands down....
Canuck
Sabre
IMHO
+1 on the CF-100. I believe it was the only Canadian designed and built all-weather interceptor that was successfully produced and used by the RCAF. At one point (according to Wikipedia) no fewere than 9 RCAF squadrons were flying the Clunk: "In its lifetime, 692 CF-100s of different variants were produced, including 53 aircraft delivered to the Belgian Air Force. Although originally designed for only 2,000 hours, it was found that the Canuck's airframe could serve for over 20,000 hours before retirement. Consequently, though it was replaced in its front line role by the CF-101 Voodoo, the Canuck served with 414 Squadron of the Canadian Forces at CFB North Bay, Ontario, until 1981, in reconnaissance, training and electronic warfare roles. After the CF-100 was retired, a number of aircraft still remain across Canada (and elsewhere) as static displays."
Its planned successor, the Avro Arrow, didn't have nearly the same level of success, but that is a whole different story.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Tom H
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 671
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:29 pm

Re: What ,do you think, should be next...

Post by Tom H »

YYZSaabGuy wrote:
Son_of_dad wrote:Hands down....
Canuck
Sabre
IMHO
+1 on the CF-100. I believe it was the only Canadian designed and built all-weather interceptor that was successfully produced and used by the RCAF. At one point (according to Wikipedia) no fewere than 9 RCAF squadrons were flying the Clunk: "In its lifetime, 692 CF-100s of different variants were produced, including 53 aircraft delivered to the Belgian Air Force. Although originally designed for only 2,000 hours, it was found that the Canuck's airframe could serve for over 20,000 hours before retirement. Consequently, though it was replaced in its front line role by the CF-101 Voodoo, the Canuck served with 414 Squadron of the Canadian Forces at CFB North Bay, Ontario, until 1981, in reconnaissance, training and electronic warfare roles. After the CF-100 was retired, a number of aircraft still remain across Canada (and elsewhere) as static displays."
Its planned successor, the Avro Arrow, didn't have nearly the same level of success, but that is a whole different story.
Evening gentlemen

We are getting our Canucks mixed up.

We already have a Fleet Canuck and a CF-100 Canuck in the collection.

The Curtis Canuck we are referring to is the Canadian built version of the Curtis Jenny.

The Reynolds Alberta Museum has the original "City of Edmonton" Canuck that flew the first Western Canadian Commercial Flight and the first Police Pursuit so we are looking at having to reproduce it.

As the "City of Edmonton" Canuck with the history tied that it represents it is important to us as a museum that represents the Aviation History of Edmonton.

BTW
I too love both the Fleet Canuck and the CF-100

Thanks everyone
---------- ADS -----------
 
frosti
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 461
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:25 pm

Re: What ,do you think, should be next...

Post by frosti »

Tom H wrote: 5) CF-18 to be acquired and restored for external display
If you are talking about the 2009 Demo team aircraft then I vote for this option. That wingless POS has been sitting in the hangar taking up space for the past 6 months now.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Colonel Sanders
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7512
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:17 pm
Location: Over Macho Grande

Re: What ,do you think, should be next...

Post by Colonel Sanders »

I would think that an F-35 would be the obvious
choice. It could sit next to the Avro Arrow.

But seriously, do you have a CanCar Harvard
or Hurricane?
---------- ADS -----------
 
Tom H
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 671
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:29 pm

Re: What ,do you think, should be next...

Post by Tom H »

Colonel Sanders wrote:But seriously, do you have a CanCar Harvard or Hurricane?
No at this time we don't.

That is why we have to pre plan our acquisitions.

Our museum, like most in Canada, is a private, not for profit society. We make it on what we earn with very little operational support available through any level of government.

We plan our acquisitions based on our mandate, Edmonton's aviation history, several years out so we can raise the needed dollars and find the appropriate airframe.

The Hurricane is a great example.

We don't currently have one, but we have done a couple years research and have located enough of the major sections that we could build (with a lot of fill in) a static display aircraft.

If that's the final choice we then have to raise the dollars through events, donations etc. to cover the acquisition costs.

The Starfighter is another example, 7 years to find an airframe that was affordable and met what we wanted in an aircraft, then the fundraising and when it arrives ext week we start the restoration/assembly process.

Thanks Tom
---------- ADS -----------
 
LousyFisherman
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 578
Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 8:32 am
Location: CFX2
Contact:

Re: What ,do you think, should be next...

Post by LousyFisherman »

Well I am for the Hurricane. Although the Spitfire gets all the glory the Hurricane was the workhorse.
There are far fewer of them restored to my knowledge so it would be a more unique exhibit

Also I have a great- uncle who flew them in WWII :)

My $0,05

LF
---------- ADS -----------
 
trey kule
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4766
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:09 pm

Re: What ,do you think, should be next...

Post by trey kule »

OK guys, lets show how much you want these neat planes.

Tom, please post the mailing address of the musuem, and the email address.

Instead of a beer tonight how about everyone giving a bit back to aviation for the future generations.
I will make my pledge now. $100 when he posts the email address.

Now come on..Sabres. CF 100s. CF 5s.. All put together by people giving their time
$10 or $20 is really not much of a sacrifice these days, and if a few hundred or a thousand of us did that, it would make a huge difference. Lazy , like me, then send an email transfer ..

Tom posts here regularly, and even if you are not from Edmonton,it is a Canadian musuem and one with dedicated volunteers.
Right now the muni is still a great place to fly in. Walk to the musuem..An excellent way to spend a day, and a nice place to drop to drop into on a day flight or a x-country.. Hotels border the airport. Restaurants..One of the last GA friendly places in Canada, and it may just go the way of the dodo bird..
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Colonel Sanders
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7512
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:17 pm
Location: Over Macho Grande

Re: What ,do you think, should be next...

Post by Colonel Sanders »

Instead of a beer tonight ... I will make my pledge now. $100
You drink really expensive beer.

when he posts the email address
Tom: post a paper mail address, and who I make the
cheque payable to, and I'm in for $100. Mostly for the
F-104, lets be honest :wink:
---------- ADS -----------
 
Tom H
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 671
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:29 pm

Re: What ,do you think, should be next...

Post by Tom H »

Trey. Colonel

Thanks so much it is very greatly appreciated.

Cheques can me made out to:
Alberta Aviation Museum Association

Address:
Alberta Aviation Museum
11410-Kingsway
Edmonton, AB
T5G 0X4

Please send your return mail as you will receive a CRA approved tax receipt for charitable donations over $25.00.

If by credit card you can call

780-451-1175
again please be sure to leave your return mail with the attendant on staff.

or e-mail me
eahs.execdirector@shawbiz.ca

Again

Thank you everyone

Thomas Hinderks
Executive Director
Alberta Aviation Museum Association
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Colonel Sanders
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7512
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:17 pm
Location: Over Macho Grande

Re: What ,do you think, should be next...

Post by Colonel Sanders »

Cheque cut for $100, in envelope, will
mail this afternoon.

Keep up the good work, Tom! Let's
see some pictures of the F-104!

PS A real CanCar Hurricane would be so cool ...
---------- ADS -----------
 
Trematode
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 235
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:46 pm

Re: What ,do you think, should be next...

Post by Trematode »

My vote's for the P-39. As somebody from the city it's really cool to think that we have a bit of a connection with the likes of Alexander Pokryshkin and the eastern front, where the air war was really amazingly interesting.

Plus the aircraft itself is pretty neat, with the engine mounted mid-fuselage behind the pilot, and that giant cannon. And nothing is as sexy to the general public as a real WW2 fighter plane.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Tom H
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 671
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:29 pm

Re: What ,do you think, should be next...

Post by Tom H »

Just for the Colonel

Received an e-mail a few minutes ago

Our Starfighter arrives in Edmonton Sunday March 24...a few days to clear customs and we will be unloading to start restoration.

She's almost here!
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Colonel Sanders
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7512
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:17 pm
Location: Over Macho Grande

Re: What ,do you think, should be next...

Post by Colonel Sanders »

Great news!

PS What was it's original number, in the RCAF? Just
wondering how much my father flew that airframe.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Tom H
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 671
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:29 pm

Re: What ,do you think, should be next...

Post by Tom H »

Colonel
It is a former Dutch aircraft (we could not find a restorable Canadian dual at a rational price for static)

Our Starfighter is being restored to represent:

CF-104D MkI serial number 104651
Originally:
Starfighter 12651 (RCAF)
No. 6 Strike/Reconnaissance OTU Cold Lake, Alberta
583A-5321 Lockheed
Came into service26-Jun-63

Re serial numbered as 104651 (CAF)
No. 417 Squadron, Cold Lake, Alberta
583A-5321 Lockheed Aircraft
Crashed 24-June-1980 engine failure due to bird strike, both pilots ejected successfully

Crew at time of incident

Pilot in Command:
Canadian Armed Forces
Captain (at the time) Rick Wall served in the Canadian Air Force and flew the CF-104 with 441 Squadron in Germany & 417 Squadron at Cold Lake, Alberta. Surpassed 2000 Starfighter hours.
Ejected successfully from CF104D 104651 in 1980 after a bird strike.

Second Pilot
Luftwaffe
Captain/ Hauptmann (at the time) H Riedel
(currently seeking additional information)
Ejected successfully from CF104D 104651 in 1980 after a bird strike.

The reason this aircraft has been chosen is as follows:

1) Our aircraft is substantially the same aircraft short of some avionics details.

2) It was an Alberta based aircraft operating from Cold Lake it's complete life

3) It is one of three dual seat Starfighters lost in service with no fatalities while in service with 417 Squadron, so it will not be confused with an existing aircraft.

4) There were no fatalities in the loss incident

5) It has the most interesting story with a RCAF Pilot in Command and a
Luftwaffe pilot in training in the rear.

As such it provides an Edmonton story (having been serviced at North West Industries), an Alberta story with 6 Squadron Strike/Recce Operational Training Unit, the Canadian Starfighter story, an International story with the Canadian/German crew at the time of loss and it's Dutch history as Starfighter D5805 of the RNAF.

Thanks to Moose47 for catching a couple errors in my original history post.

Tom
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Beefitarian
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 6610
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:53 am
Location: A couple of meters away from others.

Post by Beefitarian »

trey kule wrote: Right now the muni is still a great place to fly in. Walk to the musuem..An excellent way to spend a day, and a nice place to drop into on a day flight or a x-country.. Hotels border the airport. Restaurants..One of the last GA friendly places in Canada, and it may just go the way of the dodo bird..
Plus you can take a short flight to Wetaskawin and see their museum also. Similar deal, taxi up to it. They used to have a single place C-104 I think, don't recall seeing it since a Reddeer air show last century.

Two is even a better trip and... If you're flying from Ontario you can stop at Brandon Manitoba to check out their fine little BCATP museum.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
GGCC
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 119
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:06 am
Location: Glenwood, Kings Co. N.B. Canada

Re: What ,do you think, should be next...

Post by GGCC »

x-wind wrote:The Bell P-39 peaked my interest from the internal list. I'm not sure about the external displace. Except I would be pretty cool flying that Fleet Model 80 Canuck and giving rides in it.

My two cents.
I can't speak about Airacobras but i did train on two different Fleet Canuck 80's and soloed CF-DEN
July 22, 1968.

They were very easy to fly and would "float" on (near) touch down on a warm, windless morning.

One of those (two) aircraft has been reported seen in pieces at Debert, NS. I don't know if it is DPC or DEN....I can't find either on the Civil Register.

Dave















































s.
---------- ADS -----------
 
W5
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1004
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:44 pm
Location: Edmonton,AB

Re: What ,do you think, should be next...

Post by W5 »

FYI,

The history of D-5805:
Dep. Lockheed 5 Sept. 1963
Arr. Twenthe Airbase 7 Sept. 63, CofA 00860, and delivered to OCU (Operational Conversion Unit) Twenthe
12 May 1965 to CAV -Volkel AB (Conversion and All Weather Flight)
October 1965, return to OCU Twenthe AB
22 September 1969, to CAV- Volkel AB
2 May 1984, Withdrawn From Use, - to MLM (Military Aviation Museum)
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “General Comments”