VFR Routes

[doan_1]

So, my instructor signed off for my PPL flight exam which is on Sunday! Whaoo! Why am I posting? I got my Nav Plan route and I have a question. Courtney air-park here on Vancouver Island to Kamloops (This is the second leg, first is easy). Now, i will be spending Saturday going over everything with a fine toothed comb. But my with initial look at the charts I seem to have two choices. First is plan a direct route. I would have to run at 9500', and I would still not clear several parks and peaks. To say nothing of a lot of empty inhospitable terrain if I was in a forced landing situation. Advantage is the ease of the navigation planning for test purposes, and the suggestion was to "keep it simple."

The second is by following the VFR routes. Now I consider this my shortsightedness, but I never thought to ask about planning an Nav Trip through mountains VIA a VFR route during ground school and I haven't found too much to refer to on this. Since it is not a straight line, but meandering along highways and rivers, how does one work those out? My concept would be to cut it up into segments and plan many individual legs, connect-the-dots style. I could run at a lower altitude (though I think I would still keep 9500') and there are lots of nice paved highways and roads to put down on in a pinch. More complicated and more work, but safer. If the "keep it simple" advice had not been given I would have just done this. Am I over thinking it and missing an easier/different answer?

Any help on this directly or even just a reference to where I could find good info to help would be appreciated!

[trey kule]

Just a piece of real world advice..Not all VFR routes through the mountains are that good..some places it is better to fly away from them. They were, in many cases before modern nav tools like a GPS, IFR routes (I follow road) Highways in the mountains, are not always that good for emergency landing either, particularily when there is a lot of traffic. You just might end up as a hood ornament on a semi. Both these are general comments. Use common sense...even though there is absolutely no marks for it on a flight test.

but, in the spirit of K.I.S.S. You are overthinking it..Here is a thought..Follow the highway..Get a highway map or go to one of the GPS road maps, or websites , and get the mileage..No connect the dots and hours and hours of figuring. About a four minute job route planning.. Unless you are dealing with some super winds, in which case the wise answer to your flight examiner is that the route through the mountains is unsuitable today for flight,, do a rough calculation. Again, that common sense thing..Watch the fuel and time, and in the real world you will be OK if you plan some outs if fuel is an issue, or weather.

Good luck.

[tired of the ground]

Unfortunately you're stuck in flight test land. It is more about the paperwork part of planning than actually flying the route.

It's been a long time since I looked at flight test standards but the examiner is only looking to see that you are able prepare a map and compute ground speed and such based on winds. Actually flying the test you'll only get to your set heading point and revise your ground speed and then the exercise is over.

In the real world it's a whole different animal. No one is going to suggest you get out a ruler and come up with 300 waypoints to try and follow a road. Distance, wind, speed, time and fuel. No need for drift lines (or any lines) if you're following a highway.

Plan the direct route, noting the "difficulties" with the route. Make sure that if the conditions of the day do not lend themselves to a flight that you tell the examiner you wouldn't actually fly today.

[5x5]

Likely for a flight test scenario you should use the VFR preferred routes. They are called that for a reason. As Trey mentioned you may make different decisions once you have more experience, but for now the easiest is the routes marked on your VNC.

As for distance, simply take a string and lay it beside your ruler, mark the 10 mile sections with a sharpie and then lay the string along the route - easy, peasy. Obviously no need for dead reckoning on the headings as you're following a physical path (road) on the ground but you should still keep track of general direction for any longer sections just as a situational awareness thing.

[CpnCrunch]

Flying in the valleys is usually much more comfortable as there is usually less turbulence.

Usually the VFR routes are easy to follow - generally they follow major highways in wide valleys. Just have some GPS/NDB waypoints or VOR radials as a backup to verify your position.

Also, have you flown in the mountains with an instructor and had some training?

[Cessna driver]

Likely for a flight test scenario you should use the VFR preferred routes. They are called that for a reason. As Trey mentioned you may make different decisions once you have more experience, but for now the easiest is the routes marked on your VNC.

As for distance, simply take a string and lay it beside your ruler, mark the 10 mile sections with a sharpie and then lay the string along the route - easy, peasy. Obviously no need for dead reckoning on the headings as you're following a physical path (road) on the ground but you should still keep track of general direction for any longer sections just as a situational awareness thing.

+1

[crazy_aviator]

There is a third option and that is using a combination of VFR route AND direct flight, where the mountains are highest, you can fly the VFR route and before or after that point go direct, or close to direct, plotting the line, taking into account landing areas,,,you are making concessions both ways

[2550]

+1 for 5x5.

I just looked at the GFA expecting to demonstrate that 9500 prob wont work, but today it doesnt look like an etch a sketch. However, the number of days you ll be able to actually do VRF at all at 9500 on that leg the whole way are prob few. Just remember on your test that diverting a bit from your route (either direct or the road) and changes in altitude are allowed as long as you tell the guy what your doing and keep thinking.

I think thats allowed on a ppl test anyway. Its been awhile.

[doan_1]

Thanks to everyone. I like the string idea, and think I'll use it. And "hybrid" the trip. VFR route from Howe Sound to Lilooet, then direct to Kamloops. Thanks for all the input, its been a major help. Been doing the whole thing solo without anyone to bounce this kind of thing off of!

Flight plan route in this situation, I'll lay it out as I believe it should be.

CYCD DCT CAH3 0030 CAH3 DCT Squamish VFR ROUTE Lillooet DCT CYKA

First leg: Nanaimo to Courtenay. Picking someone up. Second leg: off to the beginning of the VFR route (after working around Comox Zone and CYA). Squamish VFR route up to Lillooet obviously, but after that it looks like a pretty clear shot the rest of the way. Does that make sense?

EDIT: Second thought with regards to altitude (thanks BTW), Just stick with the VFR route the whole way. I had assumed Lillooet direct would be if I maintained the 9500 the whole trip. Weather permitting I might, but like it was mentioned that is not likely.

[200hr Wonder]

doan_1 a couple of things,

First off during the ground briefing you are being tested on your ability to make good decisions, so first part is "Given the conditions of the day would you do this flight?" You need to support your go/no go decision with a weather brief, notams, etc. So if your actual weather is below going over the top you would be expected to attempt to make the flight happen so be prepared either way. The YCD-AH4 leg is enough to test your dead reckoning ability. The thing to remember is when crossing the strait make sure you choose an altitude that keeps you withing gliding distance to shore. Through the mountains stay near civilization for your planning purposes. Additionally be sure that as you transit near YVR that you mention any airspace you will go through.

[2550]

So? How did it go?

[doan_1]

After a few delays thanks to weather, I finished yesterday. With flying colors. Prefect? No. But the examiner was actually impressed, giving only a few suggestions during the debriefing. After the exercises were done, we cruised back to the airport chatting away and sightseeing. No fuss. But only because of the months of studies and the last few weeks sweating details (like this). Thanks for your help! Now to recover financially a bit, join the flying club and fly around for the summer for time building and fun. Then hopefully work on my commercial in Arizona during November and December. Anyone in the Nanaimo area who wants to fly, check out Vital Aviation. Highly recommended. Thanks for the great info and help here on the forums.

[CpnCrunch]

Congrats!

What are the options in Nanaimo for rentals? I'm going to be moving there in a few months and I'm wondering how I'm going to get my flying fix without having to buy a plane. Do Vital rent out their planes? I see the Nanaimo flying club says on their website that they are thinking of purchasing a plane. Any idea what's happening with that?

[Chuck Ellsworth]

What are the options in Nanaimo for rentals?

Vital have been the only place you can rent an airplane since I sold my school in 1992, Don and Linda have very well maintained airplanes and they have been there since around 1988 or so.

I'm going to be moving there in a few months and I'm wondering how I'm going to get my flying fix without having to buy a plane. Do Vital rent out their planes? I see the Nanaimo flying club says on their website that they are thinking of purchasing a plane. Any idea what's happening with that?

The flying club have been talking about getting a rental airplane for twenty five years.

You can buy my Cub project and have the perfect playtoy, I just never seem to get around to finishing it.

[CpnCrunch]

Thanks for the info, .. I'm not looking for a project, and I wouldn't trust any plane that I built myself

It would certainly be possible to start a flying club, but you need someone to put a lot of effort into getting it set up and then keeping it running, and I don't really have the time and energy for that. Maybe you should start a flying club, as it would give you something to do in your retirement.

[doan_1]

I'm living in Victoria now. So I'll be joining VFC here. But Linda mentioned I could rent their 172s as I was a student of theirs. How that was put leads me to think that they don't generally rent. But it's worth a call. They are great people. I for one am glad I chose to complete my PPL with them after I moved down here. I hope I can get in with them for their Arizona commercial training camp.camp.

[CpnCrunch]

The flying club have been talking about getting a rental airplane for twenty five years.

It looks like they've just got one:

http://www.nanaimoflyingclub.org/rental/

[fhmy]

indeed, the nanaimo flying club has a c-172 available for recreational / time building usage.

[CpnCrunch]

indeed, the nanaimo flying club has a c-172 available for recreational / time building usage.

Unfortunately it sounds like things aren't all that rosy with the 172 purchase at the moment.

[fhmy]

the concept of a club owned rental was overwhelmingly approved of by the NFC general membership.
it was also vehemently and loudly opposed by a few.

it made for spirited discussion at the past couple of meetings.

however, in spite of it all, the the nfc rental aircraft is operational.
so far, 14 renters have signed up and are utilizing this aircraft.

albiet the opposition to this was a relatively tiny number, they were most vocal & critical,
finding fault everywhere, and with everyone involved in putting the deal together.
to nfc members on the peripheral, the noise they created, may have seemed deafening.

two, have since resigned their positions within the nfc. i expect the oppositional noise to diminish, if not drop to ~0 decibels.

a nfc rental aircraft exists today, hopefully it will exist for a long, long time.

[Shiny Side Up]

it made for spirited discussion at the past couple of meetings.

Paradoxically, a lot of flying clubs aren't really about flying, and they attract a lot of members who seem to hate airplanes.

[CpnCrunch]

If what I'm hearing is correct (and I'm hearing it from a very reliable source), the objectors have a very good reason to be miffed.

[fhmy]

If what I'm hearing is correct (and I'm hearing it from a very reliable source), the objectors have a very good reason to be miffed.

interesting.
i am a member of the nanaimo flying club.
i am not on the nfc board, nor am i one of the 14 that have ponied up to fly the nfc rental aircraft.
i am however, a nfc member that regularly attends meetings, and endeavour to keep myself up to date with all things cycd.

if there is a legitimate objection to the nfc in the aquisition of a rental aircraft, i'd sure like to hear specifics.

[CpnCrunch]

If what I'm hearing is correct (and I'm hearing it from a very reliable source), the objectors have a very good reason to be miffed.

interesting.
i am a member of the nanaimo flying club.
i am not on the nfc board, nor am i one of the 14 that have ponied up to fly the nfc rental aircraft.
i am however, a nfc member that regularly attends meetings, and endeavour to keep myself up to date with all things cycd.

if there is a legitimate objection to the nfc in the aquisition of a rental aircraft, i'd sure like to hear specifics.

Replied by PM.