Sunwing's plans for the 2013-2014 winter season.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

In their LMO application to HRSDC last fall, to hire foreign pilots, Green and Spiegal, the law firm that made the application on behalf of Sunwing wrote in its supporting letter:

The process of sourcing qualified pilots and providing initial training is onerous. The program is limited by the company's training department capabilities and the availability of certified simulators required as part of the training.

Over time, Sunwing plans to decrease its reliance on non-reciprocal foreign pilots by increasing the use of Canadian seasonal contract pilots.

Also given the time required to train pilots, there would be insufficient time to train pilots who do not already have the qualifications.

Let me be clear:

1) Sunwing has twisted and abused the reciprocal agreement under CIC. The Sunwing pilots who go to Europe to fly Sunwing aircraft for Sunwing wet-leases do not count as fullfilling the CIC reciprocal agreement in order to have foreign pilots come to Canada to fly Canadian registered aircraft.

2) There is plenty of time and plenty of simulators availability between now and next winter to hire and train all the pilots that will be required for next winter. So hire, train, hire, train, hire and train. Non stop. You know how many pilots you will need next year. Hire them in sufficient numbers. Do not count on any foreign pilots.

3) The Foreign Licence Validations that Sunwing used to allow foreign licensed pilots to fly their aircraft were used for that purpose in contravention to CAR 705.106(1)(a). I didn't know this last fall, and it seems that Transport Canada didn't either. I know it now, and most importantly, so does Transport Canada. If any FLVCs are issued to Sunwing or Canjet next winter for line flying under Sub-Part 705, this will be brought to court and rest assured that a judge will read the rules the way they were written, not the way some people wish they had been written. But I trust that Transport Canada will not be in a position to approve any FLVCs next year as they had done these past years. It was an oversight which will be corrected.

4) Furthermore, the new EASA rules concerning the issuance of foreign licence validations to non EU pilots in Europe now precludes any real reciprocal program under CIC which voids any such program Sunwing may have had. Now Canadian pilots are only allowed a FLV once in Europe for one year and its never renewable.

5) Finally the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act makes it a crime to issue a temporary work permit to any foreigner whose intended profession in Canada is not allowed under the profession's regulations. CAR 705.106(1)(a) and CASS 421.07(2) restrict the foreigner from performing line flying in Canada. Thus, no more Visas under CIC and no more LMOs either.

So Sunwing, do not count on any foreign pilots flying Canadian registered aircraft next winter. Hire and train in consequence. Do not claim you did not know..........

[North Shore]

3) The Foreign Licence Validations that Sunwing used to allow foreign licensed pilots to fly their aircraft were used for that purpose in contravention to CAR 705.106(1)(a). I didn't know this last fall, and it seems that Transport Canada didn't either. I know it now, and most importantly, so does Transport Canada. If any FLVCs are issued to Sunwing or Canjet next winter for line flying under Sub-Part 705, this will be brought to court and rest assured that a judge will read the rules the way they were written, not the way some people wish they had been written. But I trust that Transport Canada will not be in a position to approve any FLVCs next year as they had done these past years. It was an oversight which will be corrected.

MAYBE.

We're peons, Gilles - so are the line people at Transport. The guys who own Sunwing are not; neither are the higher-ups at Transport, nor their political masters. A friendly chat at the golf course here, a dinner or two at the lake there, and it's funny how rules get re-written....

Thanks for taking up the fight on behalf of us all.

[BE20 Driver]

Over time, Sunwing plans to decrease its reliance on non-reciprocal foreign pilots by increasing the use of Canadian seasonal contract pilots.

Also given the time required to train pilots, there would be insufficient time to train pilots who do not already have the qualifications.

So if they apply for 120 pilots to come in through any loop hole next year that would be the equivalent of 10 per month. Seems like a reasonable timeline for a professional training department if you ask me. Time and resources can never be used as an excuse going forward.

A friendly chat at the golf course here, a dinner or two at the lake there, and it's funny how rules get re-written

Sad but it is the way the system works. Those with the money to wine and dine the bureaucrats will get the rules enforced or changed to suite their needs. Happens more than we would like to admit or know about.

[OPEC6-Heavy]

No Gilles, Let me be clear....

So Sunwing, do not count on any foreign pilots flying Canadian registered aircraft next winter. Hire and train in consequence. Do not claim you did not know.........

I'm sure Sunwing will do what ever it needs to do to provide quality lift for Sunwing Vacations (that includes plenty of Canucks) and there has never been a claim of not knowing, how could you expect an organization to plead ignorance to this topic at this point in time. You seem to have all the answers with regards to training and hiring. You have very little knowledge of our internal logistics, which is obvious by your comments. And I think your efforts in some respects are warranted, but I really think they will have unintended consequences for your current employer in the future (I won't elaborate now, maybe later). Anyways Happy April FOOL'S.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

It creates funny situations:

Right now Sunwing is taking away many 737 rated pilots from Canjet. They are still getting free type rated pilots but at least they are Canadians.

Then some laid off Air Transat pilots are having to chose between a permanent Sunwing job offer and a temporary Air Transat call back. And some will chose Sunwing.

But that is also Ok. It's hiring Canadians.

The only setback that I fear is loosing this battle and have to start fighting Air Transat the day it feels compelled to hire foreign pilots too in order to survive.

But I doubt we'll get there.

[whipline]

Gilles sunwing just hired I believe 4 pilots from Canjet. Almost all the laid off Transat pilots said they wouldn't give up their Transat seniority number, hence weren't hired. And for the biggest news flash Transat was the grand facilitator of foreign pilots through Canjet. You were just zero for 3.

[gonnabeapilot]

Be careful what you wish for...

The Foreign License Validations at least mean that Sunwing Airlines can operate with mixed crews and helps to create a spot for Canadians to be hired on a seasonal basis and creates jobs for hundreds of cabin crew on a seasonal basis. The latest rumour that I've heard is that due to the fact that Sunwing anticipates some difficulty obtaining the required number of Foreign License Validations/Work Permits next winter the plan is to simply base multiple wet-leased aircraft in Cuba for the winter and operate the flight patterns in reverse. Sunwing Travel will still have the number of seats they want for next winter and they will still be operated by foreign crews... the only difference is that now there will be absolutely ZERO benefit to Sunwing Airlines or Canadian pilots. Not exactly an improvement on the situation if you ask me....

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Gilles sunwing just hired I believe 4 pilots from Canjet. Almost all the laid off Transat pilots said they wouldn't give up their Transat seniority number, hence weren't hired. And for the biggest news flash Transat was the grand facilitator of foreign pilots through Canjet. You were just zero for 3.

1) An insider told me 6 Canjet pilots had already gone over to Sunwing last week and said several others were lined up for interviews. That was Friday March 29th.

2) I wrote, if you had read me correctly, that SOME Air Transat pilots are having to choose and that SOME WILL (that is a future tense) choose Sunwing.

3) Air Transat has never hired foreign pilots. Transat has not either. Transat had a contract with Canjet and nothing in that contract made any reference to foreign labour. Canjet bid lowest, won the contract and began using foreign labour on it's own. This would be like accusing RegTag to use foreign labour because it gave Sunwing and Canjet some flights.

Canjet is a private company owned by the Rowe family. Transat has no say in who it hires and how it runs its company outside of what the contract calls for. We were not even able to have them hire our laid off pilots instead of the foreigners, to tell you how much influence we have on that front.

But you know all that. This is just spin.

I provide facts. You reply with spin. Others question my choice of clothing.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Be careful what you wish for...

The Foreign License Validations at least mean that Sunwing Airlines can operate with mixed crews and helps to create a spot for Canadians to be hired on a seasonal basis and creates jobs for hundreds of cabin crew on a seasonal basis. The latest rumour that I've heard is that due to the fact that Sunwing anticipates some difficulty obtaining the required number of Foreign License Validations/Work Permits next winter the plan is to simply base multiple wet-leased aircraft in Cuba for the winter and operate the flight patterns in reverse. Sunwing Travel will still have the number of seats they want for next winter and they will still be operated by foreign crews... the only difference is that now there will be absolutely ZERO benefit to Sunwing Airlines or Canadian pilots. Not exactly an improvement on the situation if you ask me....

The CARs must be respected at all times. Not just when it suits you. I do not make the rules. I only ask that they be respected by all: CIC, HRSDC, the CTA and especially Transport Canada.

And part of the problem you mention, about the wet-leases should have been addressed by the Sunwing Pilot's Union in their new agreement. I have not read it yet.

[whipline]

Transat knew and still knows full well they have and are benefiting from non reciprocal foreign pilots. When they first signed the contract with Canjet one of the first questions would have been how many airplanes can you crew. Second question how are you going to go from 3 to 11 aircraft in 9 months? Your company planned in late spring their next winters schedule. In order to protect their operation they had to know the answer. All the other airlines opposed canjets non recip foreign pilots including sunwing.

I'm providing spin? Why because I disagree with you?

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Transat knew and still knows full well they have and are benefiting from non reciprocal foreign pilots. When they first signed the contract with Canjet one of the first questions would have been how many airplanes can you crew. Second question how are you going to go from 3 to 11 aircraft in 9 months? Your company planned in late spring their next winters schedule. In order to protect their operation they had to know the answer. All the other airlines opposed canjets non recip foreign pilots including sunwing.

I'm providing spin? Why because I disagree with you?

I don't work for Canjet.
I am against their using foreign labour.
I think that their claim that the 32 foreign pilots they hired was because of a pilot shortage in Canada was B/S.
I resent that they did not hire from our laid off pilots instead of the 32 foreigners.
I think the FLVC their foreign pilots use are illegal.
I am 100% certain that they will have no foreign pilots working for them next winter.

Spin.

That Sunwing ever did reciprocal is not true. You sent 12 pilots to Europe ONCE in 2011. So did Canjet.

More spin.

[24Left]

Transat knew and still knows full well they have and are benefiting from non reciprocal foreign pilots. When they first signed the contract with Canjet one of the first questions would have been how many airplanes can you crew. Second question how are you going to go from 3 to 11 aircraft in 9 months? Your company planned in late spring their next winters schedule. In order to protect their operation they had to know the answer. All the other airlines opposed canjets non recip foreign pilots including sunwing.

I'm providing spin? Why because I disagree with you?

I don't work for Canjet.
I am against their using foreign labour.
I think that their claim that the 32 foreign pilots they hired was because of a pilot shortage in Canada was B/S.
I resent that they did not hire from our laid off pilots instead of the 32 foreigners.
I think the FLVC their foreign pilots use are illegal.
I am 100% certain that they will have no foreign pilots working for them next winter.

Spin.

That Sunwing ever did reciprocal is not true. You sent 12 pilots to Europe ONCE in 2011. So did Canjet.

More spin.

Hey Gilles, I do work for CanJet.
Air Transat should to send you off for a medical and check your stress levels because you spend too time on this forum and other forums fixated about foreign pilots and devising plans to '' get'' SWG and CJ.
Do you manage to get adequate crew rest while you are scrutinizing policies and other airline contracts? Or are you up all night stressing out about your letters to Transport?
You are scared of your own precious little niche at Transat and you wouldn't care less about foreign pilots otherwise!
It was 4 of ours who went to SWG not 6!
CanJet is not a year round operation so it suits them to hire foreign pilots. They are protecting their own operation!
I wouldn't want to be in a flight deck with you while you were flying somewhere obsessing over your laid off pilots
They are not your problem and they are not the problem of SWG or CJ
Let them do what a proportion of others did who lost their jobs by going Expat
Good to see you use your real name on this particular forum because you are on other sites with your monikers and still spewing the same old negative hate
You are not well received by the management at Transat not to mention if you lose your job tomorrow your chances of being hired elsewhere are slim to none.

Now I wait for your army of hero worshippers and cronies to jump on and defend you. I don't see them using their real names and I'll guarantee you they wouldn't come out to back you up if it was in front of real faces.

Gilles there's an old saying - clean up your own backyard!

[Gilles Hudicourt]

And who are you Mr Real Face?

Other sites ? Monikers ? Hate ? You seem to see my hand everywhere. Are you certain I am the one who is obsessed ?

[pelmet]

Hey Gilles, I do work for CanJet.
I know Air Transat needs to send you off for a medical and check your stress levels because you spend far too time on this forum and other forums fixated about foreign pilots
You must spend every waking hour online digging and prodding, writing letters, looking at everyone work contracts and agreements, contacting politicians and TC
Do you manage to get adequate crew rest while you are scrutinizing policies and other airline contracts?
You are scared of your own precious little niche at Transat and you wouldn't care less about foreign pilots otherwise
It was 4 of ours who went to SWG not 6
CanJet is not a year round operation so it suits them to hire foreign pilots. They are protecting their own operation
I dare to stand up and tell you that you are a whiny, obsessed man and frankly I wouldn't want to be in a flight deck with you while you were flying somewhere obsessing over your laid off pilots.
Good to see you use your real name on this particular forum because you are on other sites with your monikers and still spewing the same old negative hate
You are not well received by the management at Transat not to mention if you lose your job tomorrow your chances of being hired elsewhere are slim to none.

Now I wait for your army of hero worshippers and cronies to jump on and defend you. I don't see them using their real names and I'll guarantee you they wouldn't come out to back you up if it was in front of real faces.

Now you are doing personal attacks


As for Sunwing training and training seasonal pilots.......why would they do that when no doubt half would leave for somewhere else after a 6 month job. And they might hesitate to hire Transat guys when it is obvious that they might just go back to Transat even as a new hire again at the bottom of the list where they were anyways. Then again, maybe a deal could be worked out....Transat in the summer, Sunwing in the winter.

[mbav8r]

24Left, I'm sure Gilles won't respond to you, so I will defend him. Gilles, sorry if you feel offended by this. Gilles is many things, whiny is not one of them, in fact I was going to ask Gilles if after some rest from this issue, he would consider running for a position in the CPPC, I think he has done enough campaigning over the last year and would simply need to submit his name. With exception of a few who don't get it, I think many would vote for him.
You should hope if you were out of work because of foreign pilots someone like Gilles was in your corner, fighting, giving up many many hours of free time. I also find it extremely unlikely, Transat management does not appreciate his efforts, but please feel free to post your name and source, or do you fear you might not be hired at Transat if, well you know they need 737 pilots for the in house ops.
You sound like a scared child and hope for your sake you aren't passed over for foreign pilots.
Sounds like you shouldn't have to worry about that issue, at least.

[Jean-Luc Monette]

Or are you up all night stressing out about your letters to Transport?
You are scared of your own precious little niche at Transat and you wouldn't care less about foreign pilots otherwise!


I wouldn't want to be in a flight deck with you while you were flying somewhere obsessing over your laid off pilots

Good to see you use your real name on this particular forum because you are on other sites with your monikers and still spewing the same old negative hate

You are not well received by the management at Transat not to mention if you lose your job tomorrow your chances of being hired elsewhere are slim to none.

I don't see them using their real names and I'll guarantee you they wouldn't come out to back you up if it was in front of real faces.

Gilles there's an old saying - clean up your own backyard!

If I may, Mr. 24Left; I know Gilles personally and I can tell you right off the bat that he is far from stressed, careless, obsessed, hateful and negative, and his backyard is spiffy clean (well at least in the summertime ).

You will also see that I use my real name and I'm pretty sure Transat doesn't hold anything against Gilles and in fact, with all the work he's done and the character he's showing, probably lots of people would want him on their side... I know I do!

All he's done so far, is stand up for every and all nameless posters who come on here, even those who try to negate what he's been doing, because in the end, even the Canadian pilots at SW and C6 would benefit, although you'll never admit it.

[24Left]

Hey Gilles, I do work for CanJet.
I know Air Transat needs to send you off for a medical and check your stress levels because you spend far too time on this forum and other forums fixated about foreign pilots
You must spend every waking hour online digging and prodding, writing letters, looking at everyone work contracts and agreements, contacting politicians and TC
Do you manage to get adequate crew rest while you are scrutinizing policies and other airline contracts?
You are scared of your own precious little niche at Transat and you wouldn't care less about foreign pilots otherwise
It was 4 of ours who went to SWG not 6
CanJet is not a year round operation so it suits them to hire foreign pilots. They are protecting their own operation
I dare to stand up and tell you that you are a whiny, obsessed man and frankly I wouldn't want to be in a flight deck with you while you were flying somewhere obsessing over your laid off pilots.
Good to see you use your real name on this particular forum because you are on other sites with your monikers and still spewing the same old negative hate
You are not well received by the management at Transat not to mention if you lose your job tomorrow your chances of being hired elsewhere are slim to none.

Now I wait for your army of hero worshippers and cronies to jump on and defend you. I don't see them using their real names and I'll guarantee you they wouldn't come out to back you up if it was in front of real faces.

Now you are doing personal attacks


As for Sunwing training and training seasonal pilots.......why would they do that when no doubt half would leave for somewhere else after a 6 month job. And they might hesitate to hire Transat guys when it is obvious that they might just go back to Transat even as a new hire again at the bottom of the list where they were anyways. Then again, maybe a deal could be worked out....Transat in the summer, Sunwing in the winter.

It's ok for Gilles to conduct his personal attacks on every pilot who flies for SWG and CJ but don't ruffle the feathers of the almighty Gilles.

This is not a personal attack, its a defensive notation to the continual broken record he plays.

In a few days he may be celebrating 737's being brought in house to Air Transat and will the laid off 50 be trained to fly them? Only time will tell. But he's got the support of Eustace
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-in ... slug=C7531

[60N30W]

Hey Gilles, I do work for CanJet.
I know Air Transat needs to send you off for a medical and check your stress levels because you spend far too time on this forum and other forums fixated about foreign pilots
You must spend every waking hour online digging and prodding, writing letters, looking at everyone work contracts and agreements, contacting politicians and TC
Do you manage to get adequate crew rest while you are scrutinizing policies and other airline contracts?
You are scared of your own precious little niche at Transat and you wouldn't care less about foreign pilots otherwise
It was 4 of ours who went to SWG not 6
CanJet is not a year round operation so it suits them to hire foreign pilots. They are protecting their own operation
I dare to stand up and tell you that you are a whiny, obsessed man and frankly I wouldn't want to be in a flight deck with you while you were flying somewhere obsessing over your laid off pilots.
Good to see you use your real name on this particular forum because you are on other sites with your monikers and still spewing the same old negative hate
You are not well received by the management at Transat not to mention if you lose your job tomorrow your chances of being hired elsewhere are slim to none.

Now I wait for your army of hero worshippers and cronies to jump on and defend you. I don't see them using their real names and I'll guarantee you they wouldn't come out to back you up if it was in front of real faces.

Now you are doing personal attackso


As for Sunwing training and training seasonal pilots.......why would they do that when no doubt half would leave for somewhere else after a 6 month job. And they might hesitate to hire Transat guys when it is obvious that they might just go back to Transat even as a new hire again at the bottom of the list where they were anyways. Then again, maybe a deal could be worked out....Transat in the summer, Sunwing in the winter.

It's ok for Gilles to conduct his personal attacks on every pilot who flies for SWG and CJ but don't ruffle the feathers of the almighty Gilles.

This is not a personal attack, its a defensive notation to the continual broken record he plays.

In a few days he may be celebrating 737's being brought in house to Air Transat and will the laid off 50 be trained to fly them? Only time will tell. But he's got the support of Eustace
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-in ... slug=C7531

24Lin a previous post you say Gilles is not appreciated by management, now in this post you say he has the support of J.M. So witch one is it?

As to all your other points and comments in regard to Gilles, they hold no value since you refuse to post your identity. Posting under a handle is fine for jokes and general industry comments, heading behind it to attack someone else is cowardly. Want to have a healthy debate, sign your name.

Regards,

Matthew Jackson

[rudder]

In a few days he may be celebrating 737's being brought in house to Air Transat and will the laid off 50 be trained to fly them? Only time will tell. But he's got the support of Eustace
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-in ... slug=C7531

Perhaps this is the announcement that has 24L so upset:

http://business.financialpost.com/2013/ ... th-canjet/

[RichAir]

$unwings is trying not to hire, or use, any foreign pilot for next winter. Their strategy is to get a STC approved for theB737 in order to operate it R/C. The first tests were done using a maintenance van in YYZ. Unfortunately, they lost control of it and it ended by the threshold of a runway. $unwing maintenance staff didn't perform any R/C tests since but they have to be ready for next winter. The approval should be quick after tests period as the management has some friends at transpor+