Island Lake C207 crash April 3, 2013

[J31]

A 26-year-old pilot survived a crash on April 3 near Island Lake, said RCMP.
Around 3 p.m., Island Lake RCMP were notified that an aircraft emergency locator transmitter had been activated. That triggered a response from RCMP, which included vehicles, snowmobiles and a helicopter.
RCMP searchers on snowmobiles found the downed aircraft about two miles off a winter road.
The aircraft had taken off from Island Lake in northeastern Manitoba and had been in the air for a few minutes before crashing in whiteout conditions, said RCMP.
The 26-year-old pilot from Red Deer, Alta. was taken to Garden Hill Nursing Station for treatment of minor injuries. No passengers were on board.
The plane was operated out of Sandy Lake, Ont.
The Transportation Safety Board of Canada has been contacted. RCMP also continue to investigate.


Read more: http://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/plane-crashe ... z2PWU3AR00

[J31]

Ops......there it is below

[ReserveTank]

A 207 in whiteout, eh? Push, push, push! Make your boss more money, get a good reference!

[esp803]

Well since this is the thread that will get all the attention,,,, here are the photos.

Thankfully no one was killed or badly injured.

E

[Navaids]

does anyone know what the reported wheather was in YIV?

[esp803]

I checked a few hours after the crash and it was between 3 and 5 miles. The TAF had some things down as low as a mile or so if I recall.

[trey kule]

A 207 in whiteout, eh? Push, push, push! Make your boss more money, get a good reference!

Yep...another poor victim pilot. Not his fault at all.. Matter of fact it looks like he did a "good job"...after all he is uninjured and will just go onto another job.. No way he could not go...a gun to his head. And the weather was what.? Gosh, looks like Vfr. Whiteout? Try to fly near the ground instead of climbing to a safe altitude... That is definitely his employers fault.

Time some of you young logbook whores stopped pretending you are victims when you misjudge your awesome abilities and things don't work out.

And of course there is no chance it was mechanical...just had to be the employer's fault

[toelessjoe]

A 207 in whiteout, eh? Push, push, push! Make your boss more money, get a good reference!

Yep...another poor victim pilot. Not his fault at all.. Matter of fact it looks like he did a "good job"...after all he is uninjured and will just go onto another job.. No way he could not go...a gun to his head. And the weather was what.? Gosh, looks like Vfr. Whiteout? Try to fly near the ground instead of climbing to a safe altitude... That is definitely his employers fault.

Time some of you young logbook whores stopped pretending you are victims when you misjudge your awesome abilities and things don't work out.

And of course there is no chance it was mechanical...just had to be the employer's fault

What he said. (I don't know how to make those little 'up' arrows.)

- Toeless.

[Redneck_pilot86]

What he said. (I don't know how to make those little 'up' arrows.)

- Toeless.

Shift 6, at least on a computer.

[FloatinAround]

A 207 in whiteout, eh? Push, push, push! Make your boss more money, get a good reference!

Yep...another poor victim pilot. Not his fault at all.. Matter of fact it looks like he did a "good job"...after all he is uninjured and will just go onto another job.. No way he could not go...a gun to his head. And the weather was what.? Gosh, looks like Vfr. Whiteout? Try to fly near the ground instead of climbing to a safe altitude... That is definitely his employers fault.

Time some of you young logbook whores stopped pretending you are victims when you misjudge your awesome abilities and things don't work out.

And of course there is no chance it was mechanical...just had to be the employer's fault

While it appears to have been a bad call by the pilot, at least he's okay and there was no one else on board. I'm all for flying within your limits, but I'm not sure the attitude is necessary. Although perhaps you've seen it one too many times. Who'm I to say?

[esp803]

young logbook whores

It wasn't that long ago that I was one of those as well. I made some stupid decisions in the first 1000 hours that I would never make now, I'm just lucky that none of them bit me. I'm not saying I don't make dumb decisions now, but the last one I made involved a cup of hot coffee in my lap.... always keep the lid on, that CAT can be sneaky!

It shouldn't have happened but thankfully it did with no injuries or deaths, I can think of MANY pilots and passengers who were not so lucky.

E

[ReserveTank]

Time some of you young logbook whores stopped pretending you are victims when you misjudge your awesome abilities and things don't work out.

You've overestimated your reading comprehension capabilities. I'm saying that pushing is the mindset of the employer AND the employee. Few employers will stand behind a no go decision without a major gripe, and many pilots are happy to oblige them. This is what can happen. We all know what kind of BS VFR goes on up there. Don't be naive-I didn't invent it.

[C-FABH]

Occurrence No. : A13C0032 Occurrence Type: ACCIDENT
Class : CLASS 5 Reportable Type:
Date : 03-04-2013 Time : 14:58 CDT
Region of Responsibility : CENTRAL
Location : CYIV ISLAND LAKE, MANITOBA


Aircraft Information:

Registration : C-GHKB Operator : SANDY LAKE SEAPLANE SERVICE
Manufacturer : CESSNA Operator Type: COMMERCIAL
Model : 207 CARs Info: 703 - AIR TAXI
Injuries: Fatal : 0 Serious : 0 Minor : 0 None : 1 Unknown : 0

Occurrence Summary :

A13C0032: The Sandy Lake Seaplane Service Cessna 207, registration C-GHKB, was departing Island Lake, MB, for St. Theresa Point, MB, a VFR flight of about 7 miles. The aircraft departed runway 30 at 1455 CDT and began a left turn about 300 ft. agl for a landing on runway 22 at St. Theresa Point. Almost immediately the aircraft entered white-out conditions in snow and blowing snow. The pilot was not IFR rated but attempted to stop the rate of descent that he noticed on the VSI. As the nose was pulled up the aircraft flew into the snow covered lake. There was no fire and the pilot was not injured. The pilot attempted to call FSS at 1458. Communications were not established but FSS detected an ELT signal in the background of the transmission. The RCMP was notified and the pilot was rescued by snowmobile at 1537.

[126.7Spam]

Talked to some of the pilots who work there last summer/fall. Heard some of their horror stories of how their boss was pressuring them to fly. Told them to get outa there and find a new job but they "needed the hours." Also recall a time when Wasaya and Superior airways stopped flying one day due to icing ad weather out of Red Lake, yet their 207 was going nonstop ZSJ-YRL-ZSJ. Hopefully some of these pilots realize what they're doing and tell their boss to pound sand. This accident could have been way worse and hopefully some of these guys open up their eyes and GTFO.

[ReserveTank]

Shift 6

^

[phillyfan]

I talked with a friend, who had a friend that knew a guy that worked there and he said he was never pushed.

[Navaids]

Talked to some of the pilots who work there last summer/fall. Heard some of their horror stories of how their boss was pressuring them to fly. Told them to get outa there and find a new job but they "needed the hours." Also recall a time when Wasaya and Superior airways stopped flying one day due to icing ad weather out of Red Lake, yet their 207 was going nonstop ZSJ-YRL-ZSJ. Hopefully some of these pilots realize what they're doing and tell their boss to pound sand. This accident could have been way worse and hopefully some of these guys open up their eyes and GTFO.

The biggest cowards in this industry are the ones that say "but my boss made me do it". No one can "make you" fly. As the PIC YOU make that decision. As for being pressured. I know for a fact if you tell these guys NO they will respect your decision. They might not always be happy about it, but hey this is what you signed up for.

Wasaya and superior stopped flying and SLSS was doing trips to red lake nonstop you say? BS!!

[esp803]

I know for a fact if you tell these guys NO they will respect your decision.

This is true, at least when I worked there. T&T never MADE me go flying, and if the weather was shit and I said no they would respect that. It wasn't always the best place to work and I had more then my share of disagreements with both of em but in the end I learned a lot from these two that as kept my ass safe since then. Considering that these guys ONLY hire 200hr wonders and have been doing so since the Air Sandy days they have a pretty good safety record. Thanks to T&T I got my start into floats with 7 hours of them, and because of the one season I did with SLSS on floats I have the job I have now. If you don't feel comfortable, tell them, they may mock you (jokingly), but they certainly don't force you.

E

[Cat Driver]

If you don't feel comfortable, tell them, they may mock you (jokingly), but they certainly don't force you.

[trey kule]

To be clear, my comments were not made towards the pilot involved in the accident , but to posts that look to balme others for their own stupid decisions.

We all know what kind of BS VFR goes on up there. Don't be naive-I didn't invent it.

I assure you I am not naive about it at all..But here is the thing. Until some of you younger types smarten up and learn how to say no, this type of accident will continue to repeat itself..And blaming the employer for pushing you is nothing more than a spineless excuse for your lack of responsability as a pilot.

You may not have invented it, but you sure appear to think it is OK to give in to any demand.
and quite frankly the BS up there has , from what I have seen, decreased vastly since my time in the north.
It is not the operator who was flying all day when no one else was...It was a pilot..My point was quit blaming others for your bad decisions.

, It has been refreshing to see some of the other posts here from pilots who get it..We have all ,during our careers, gone once or twice over our abilities, and some of us have just been plane lucky (pun intended). But that does not mean that others cannot learn to rely a little less on luck. And the lesson will never be learned as long as people thing that is just the way it is.

Keep believing that is just the way it is..Heck, you may be lucky..and if not....well it is all that bad old employer's fault becuase you were just a poor pilot wanting those logbook enteries.. Logbook enteries that are so important you will take dangerous risks to get them..

Years ago I was the first plane to land at an accident site where a pilot flew a 185 into the ice on a lake...It was a gruesome scene..one of his feet still in a shoe..I never forgot that. And 30 years later I still see pilots doing the same things.....the north is a dangerous and unforgiving place and caution and experience are important.

But even more important is knowing when to say no...I think another one of us old geezers might continually try to emphasize that point.

[ReserveTank]

Just to be clear, I am not one of those "young" and "yes man" pilots. I have pissed off bosses and dispatch, and have had my job threatened over no go decisions. I've seen plenty of pilots get punished for their no go decisions. All these employers do is call in a fresh faced guy afraid of reprimand. He will fly the flight...or he will be constructively dismissed. That's how it is in this business. The no go decision does not get the respect that it needs and that's why people are doing stupid things. I am not defending poor decision-making, but there is a root cause as to why this crap keeps happening. Fear of reprisal. It's a real thing and it's embedded in company culture.
Remove this abuse and you remove the root cause. You'll only be left with the occasional stupid decision-making rather than this epidemic that we conveniently sweep under the rug.

[Rowdy]

Reserve tank - You can easily sue for constructive dismissal.. perhaps thats what needs to be done in aviation to aid in making that sector of the industry safer. Perhaps if some of the more experienced pilots had the balls to band together and protect and mentor the fresh meat, a lot of this wouldnt be happening.

So instead of us complaining about it, why dont we start the process of fixing it!

[YBW-Kid]

Just a general comment on what I have been reading here. Please know I have zero knowledge of the operation nor the people involved in the accident and my comments are general in nature. I felt somewhat uncomfortable with some of the comments and assumptions being expressed. Theres another element we seem to be forgetting here. People pleasing.

It seems obvious by reading the comments this operation has historically been providing jobs to low Pilots. Entry level flying jobs in Northern Manitoba are a culture shock for most young people. Having flown in that area myself I understand the lay of the land and the conditions. A young Pilot coming from the city on his/her first commercial flying gig would be happy for the opportunity, but likely naive about what its all about. Your away from your support system of family and friends and meeting new people who may or may not accept you. I think most people will be submissive and want to find a way to earn acceptance.

Think about the last time you worked at a small company. There is an employer/employee relationship dynamic. Generally the new person is trying to prove the employer they can do the job well. In the first couple of days of any new job chances are the newbie hears those exaggerated stories of the star Pilot they had 10 years ago who could fly blindfolded carrying six moose strapped to the fuselage with only two operational cylinders. The newbie not understanding the expectations of the job naturally wants to demonstrate to the boss they are up for it. You know full well theres no way your gonna fly that bird on two cylinders. So now your nervous.

From my own personal flying experience I was told if I felt uncomfortable about anything I should not fly. Well the truth is when your low time almost every flight had some element which makes you feel uncomfortable because your experiencing things. I would have cancelled flights because I was scarred of the unknown. I wanted to show my employer I can do this. So there is a delicate balance. Do I show the boss Im not capable to do the job because Im scarred or do I just go because thats what he expects me to do? IMHO -The key- establish and know your own personal limits. This is a constantly changing document updated everyday as you grow. If your not ready - your more professional to sit down with the boss and discuss the issues. Ask him/her to mentor you. If theres no help or mentoring and a uncomfortable environment of silent pressures or caustic comments- your likely over your head and have not found the right job. Go home.

If you receive mentoring and decide to go flying always have an out - a Plan B & Plan C. Take more time to think things over- fly 10 minutes ahead of the airplane at all times and when things go to hell- execute Plan B and start firming up Plan C. Learn from the experience and be smarter the next time your presented with such conditions. As time passes those insecurities fade because you've done that before - been there. The good employers will understand what you are experiencing and because its in their best interest they will mentor you properly.

When you make a professional decision to not fly or turn around one day based on all the elements including your own experience- discuss it with the boss. If the boss re-assigns the flight to someone else - thats OK. A true story- I was pulled off a contract flying job because the passenger/client felt I was not capable or willing of flying into high tight mountain valleys from below on wildlife surveys. He hated the fact I would waste time to circle up high and come down into each valley from above. The customer requested I not fly him anymore. At the time I felt horrible- like I had let everyone down because of my lack of experience and my inflexibility to not fly into what I considered unsafe situations. Several months later.... sadly the replacement Pilot and the client were killed in an accident where the aircraft was unable to out climb the terrain in a high mountain valley I refused to enter from below. A horrible way to feel vindicated - but I do. There is not one job out there worth dying over. Learn from all those young people who died trying to please their bosses or clients. Never go to a job without having bus fare home safely tucked away - Plan B

[Cat Driver]

The intimidation of low time pilots to fly beyond safe limits has been part of aviation since I can remember.

There is overt intimidation and there is insidious intimidation, both are equally effective for employers who want to intimidate.

Maybe the new college of pilots will be able to help correct this imbalance in aviation.

To this point in time pilots have been isolated due to the nature of the business.

[lostaviator]

Here the weather 15 mins before, and then a few minutes after. Providing the time in the CADOR is correct...

SA 03/04/2013 20:00-> METAR CYIV 032000Z 24013G18KT 2 1/2SM -SN DRSN OVC020 M02/M04
A2970 RMK SC8 SLP077=

SP 03/04/2013 19:40-> SPECI CYIV 031940Z 22009KT 10SM -SN DRSN OVC020 RMK SC8=