Running out of fuel

[Strega]

Ok folks,, the other thread about landing gear up has sparked my curiosity.

Personally, I think its the same nitwits that land with the gear up, that also run out of fuel, but then again, what do I know

Discussion is welcome.


S

[Colonel Sanders]

I have run out of fuel many times .... then had to switch fuel tanks

Flying a biplane across the Gulf of Mexico, when
the front seat tank runs dry, I don't care how many
hours you have, it gets your attention.

[Strega]

Running a tank dry, although mildly exciting, is not running out of fuel

[Big Pistons Forever]

A better question is how many times have you landed with less than 30 minutes of fuel ?

[Redneck_pilot86]

A better question is how many times have you landed with less than 30 minutes of fuel ?

Certainly a better question. I have never ran out of fuel, but I have landed with less than 30 minutes on at least 3 occasions I can remember.

[chinglish]

I've never landing with less than my 45 plus alternate. I check fuel at the top of climb against my flight planned GS and then every hour after that. Before I start my descent/ arrival I work out how long I could hold for and or how many approaches I could do. Pretty basic stuff if you ask me.

[Redneck_pilot86]

I've never landing with less than my 45 plus alternate. I check fuel at the top of climb against my flight planned GS and then every hour after that. Before I start my descent/ arrival I work out how long I could hold for and or how many approaches I could do. Pretty basic stuff if you ask me.

We don't all fly aircraft with accurate fuel gauges and IFR reserves from fuel tank to fuel tank.

[shimmydampner]

Don't remember exactly but at least a few times landed with less than 30 minutes. Blown many tanks, never run out of fuel.
The original post and a particular subsequent one seem to fairly reek of self-righteousness, however there are certain areas of operation in this land (ie: not "NWO") that, despite an intelligent pilot's best precautions, events can conspire to stretch available fuel to the limit.
Landing with less than 30 minutes of fuel is NOTHING like landing gear up.

[esp803]

Landing with less than 30 minutes of fuel is NOTHING like landing gear up.

I Concur. I also think running out of gas is NOTHING like landing with the gear up.

I've never landing with less than my 45 plus alternate. I check fuel at the top of climb against my flight planned GS and then every hour after that. Before I start my descent/ arrival I work out how long I could hold for and or how many approaches I could do. Pretty basic stuff if you ask me.

I wrote out a long winded response on why it (in my opinion, based on the relatively limited flying I have done) is impossible to ALWAYS land with that much fuel in the real world of 703/4. I will let the masses figure it out on their own. IMHO I think you have spent too much time memorizing laws / instructing and not enough time working.

As to this pole, I've landed with under thirty minutes a handful of times and have had slightly high blood pressure once. It was on floats in NWO and enroute back to base over a VERY large lake, so in reality there were options... In a perfect world I'd always like to have fulls tanks and nothing but time and options... this unfortunately is rarely the case.

E

[fish4life]

I've never landing with less than my 45 plus alternate. I check fuel at the top of climb against my flight planned GS and then every hour after that. Before I start my descent/ arrival I work out how long I could hold for and or how many approaches I could do. Pretty basic stuff if you ask me.

So you have never had to miss and go to an alternate ? Sounds more dangerous than not landing with your 45 min reserve at your alternate

[chinglish]

Sorry I didn't word my response very well. I've landed with just 45 minutes of reserve before at my alternate airport. The aircraft that I fly has fuel gauges that work quite well and another gauge that tell me exactly how much fuel that we've burnt. So in my situation there is no excuse to not have enough fuel.
I'm not brand new to this industry but I also don't think I know everything. It's true I come from an instructing background, that was my first job. I'm currently a training captain at my 705 outfit so I like to think that I know a little bit about what I'm talking about but I don't know it all...

[Doc]

Circumstances, often beyond your control, can have your fuel supply dwindle to a point where your ass is chewing on your seat. However, forgetting to put the gear down is YOUR fault! YOURS! Sometimes, running out of fuel is YOUR fault as well, but not always! And, don't start pissing and moaning about "human factors". I for one, am really sick of people who can't take responsibility for their own stupidity! If you say something like..."SHIT! I left the frikken gear up! MY fault! I did it! ME!!" you will get my respect for having the "pills" to admit it! Give me just ONE excuse, and it's OVER between us. There is NO excuse!

As for fuel....I have landed with less than 30 minutes of fuel on several occasions. Some were planned. I didn't say I was bright. Circumstances alter cases. I will admit to putting more gas in a Baron than the POH claimed it held. Long story. Had the CP, and the company owner on board and we were all crapping bricks! But the puppy kept running!

[Rookie50]

Less than 30 minutes...Planned....What would have been the outcome if the runway at planned destination was closed for some reason?

[thatlowtimer]

But rookie, what if there's not another runway within 30 minutes? Extra gas does you no good then. I'm more referring to being stuck in the middle of nowhere and needing to get home because its -40 or things of this nature.

[Rookie50]

But rookie, what if there's not another runway within 30 minutes? Extra gas does you no good then. I'm more referring to being stuck in the middle of nowhere and needing to get home because its -40 or things of this nature.

I know little of true bush flying. It is interesting though how many accidents there are by those trying to reach their destination, in areas surrounded by other airports.

[Cat Driver]

Less than 30 minutes...Planned....What would have been the outcome if the runway at planned destination was closed for some reason?

Well lets think about this, you could land on the closed runway, you could land beside the runway or you could just resign yourself to fate and shove the controls ahead and dive straight down to the ground and thus save having to fill out reports of why you landed on a closed runway.

[Doc]

Less than 30 minutes...Planned....What would have been the outcome if the runway at planned destination was closed for some reason?

I guess you didn't notice the word "PLANNED" in my post.

[Doc]

But rookie, what if there's not another runway within 30 minutes? Extra gas does you no good then. I'm more referring to being stuck in the middle of nowhere and needing to get home because its -40 or things of this nature.

I know little of true bush flying. It is interesting though how many accidents there are by those trying to reach their destination, in areas surrounded by other airports.

They're usually not caused by fuel starvation, now are they?

[Doc]

Less than 30 minutes...Planned....What would have been the outcome if the runway at planned destination was closed for some reason?

Well lets think about this, you could land on the closed runway, you could land beside the runway or you could just resign yourself to fate and shove the controls ahead and dive straight down to the ground and thus save having to fill out reports of why you landed on a closed runway.

Very few airports don't have roads you could land on if you really HAD to. After all, the pax don't (all) ride to the airports on brooms.

[Rookie50]

But rookie, what if there's not another runway within 30 minutes? Extra gas does you no good then. I'm more referring to being stuck in the middle of nowhere and needing to get home because its -40 or things of this nature.

I know little of true bush flying. It is interesting though how many accidents there are by those trying to reach their destination, in areas surrounded by other airports.

They're usually not caused by fuel starvation, now are they?

I would suppose, including the US with its multitude of airports, there is at least one GA fuel starvation accident per day, with alternates available. Not a statistics expert, so, if someone has a better number I would listen.

[thatlowtimer]

Did you know that 60% of statistics are made up? Most statistics are only 80% true at best.

[Doc]

I would suppose, including the US with its multitude of airports, there is at least one GA fuel starvation accident per day, with alternates available. Not a statistics expert, so, if someone has a better number I would listen.

You would "suppose"??? Seriously? based on what exactly? Hope you aren't subject to random drug tests....

You are aware, are you not, that if you DO run out of gas and successfully dead stick the puppy without damage, ANYWHERE, it's not an "accident"?

[Doc]

Did you know that 60% of statistics are made up? Most statistics are only 80% true at best.

And, that 7 out of 5 of them just aren't true?

[Strega]

Landing with less than 30 min of fuel on board is not the same as running out.

I have told ATC a couple of times "min fuel" and they acknowledged, and kept me from entering the pattern for another 5 mins or so.

Min fuel is not the same as running out.

[ahramin]

One thing that always bothered me was pilots accepting fuel guages that didn't read correctly. I've heard many King Air pilots explain that the fuel guages just don't read right. Unless we are talking about a -100 with float senders, there is simply no reason for fuel guages that don't work. Every time you get an aircraft with fuel guages that don't read correctly, record the behaviour, talk to the engineers about it, and write it in the book. If it comes back not reading correctly, repeat the process. Keep repeating until you get fuel guages that work correctly through the entire range. Keep in mind that water and fungi in the tanks can also cause fuel guage problems, so make sure the tanks are clean and being sumped regularly.