Some info on CMA

[+cHange]

For the ones looking to apply to CMA over the next little while there has been some positive changes.

- The company is growing in a positive direction with need of people that take pride in their jobs in the process. With that comes some growing pains, so it's key that you come here for long term goals and not short term.
- No company is perfect, just like you wouldn't expect that going to Encore, don't expect it coming to CMA. But it's a really good place to work with great people/friendships who know how to fly and make good decisions.
- The interview is tough, but if you know your craft and don't possess a sense of entitlement/ego it's a pleasant experience.
- People in key roles are there because they want to be, not because they have to be. Therefore these individuals care about their craft.
- Besides the pay cheque, you're treated fairly. They won't go over and beyond all the time, but that being said, if you maintain a good rep-or with management they work together with you to solve any concerns.
- It helps if you know somebody internally.
- You will make more as a direct entry captain on the 705 machines than you will at Encore/SkyRegional/Porter although your reasons for going to such companies would probably be different such as: flow through to mainline at WJ.
- F/O salaries are now competitively higher than industry standard.
- The company still takes pride in feeding AC, WJ, Encore, Canadian North, Enerjet, and Corporate departments. But is taking proactive approaches in making it a retention company for the right individuals.
- The 705 flying gets you home every night, great if you have a family.
- The 704 flying has a few overnights
- If you come here with good time upgrades are rather quick atm
- Expect bonds on both 704/705 flying. They are very reasonably priced. No money upfront.
- There's very few disgruntled people that aren't team players, but you find this anywhere so don't let that bother you.
- The best part, we are hiring! So if it sounds like a place you would like to work, give it a shot as interviews are happening soon.

I do ask that people that have worked for CMA in the past to remember that lots that was at one point thought to be impossible has changed. I ask that we all remain respectful and open minded to the discussions found below. The idea is for effective and real-time information being put out to help potential candidates make better informed decisions about coming here to work for us.

If you have any questions, ask away!

[voodoomech]

Not only positive changes for pilots but for maintenance as well. Payscale has increased to above industry standard in recent years to help retain AME's. Plenty of type courses and training invested as well. Great bunch of guys to work with and its hard to find a place that can top this gig.

[esp803]

- F/O salaries are now competitively higher than industry standard.

Care to post what it is? When I was an F/O on a BE20/30/3B I was guaranteed 40k a year, but seemed to work out to about 50k.... I was also home virtually every day, live in a city I loved and had a wealth of benefits to go with the salary. I guess I'm just curious what you consider "industry standard".

[+cHange]

- F/O salaries are now competitively higher than industry standard.

Care to post what it is? When I was an F/O on a BE20/30/3B I was guaranteed 40k a year, but seemed to work out to about 50k.... I was also home virtually every day, live in a city I loved and had a wealth of benefits to go with the salary. I guess I'm just curious what you consider "industry standard".

I'm not in a position to comment on the exact salaries. But what I will say is that F/O compensation for 705 is higher than what you get at currently sought after 705 companies. These include Sky Regional, Encore, Porter, etc. With upgrades not taking long on our 705 fleet, you see an exponential jump in salaries that are highly desirable with due diligence to what's currently being paid out there in the left seat of a 705 turbo prop in Canada. Also remember that CMA is a different beast in the regard that it doesn't have countless aircraft. Yet the salaries are competitively there now.
Since you spoke about King Air flying offering 40 advancing to 50k, you would be discussing the "take home" category of our 1900 fleet. There's several types of additions to base salary depending on the type of flying you do which is very common on the 1900. As a result, our take home is actually more than industry standard on the 1900. In both seats. By industry standard you have to look at who does similar type of flying, ie no medivacs, no remote living, airline ops, etc. So I believe companies like Georgian, Sky Regional, Encore, Porter are good places of comparison for both our 704/705 flying. But then again, there are companies like Jazz that offers a wicked retirement plan. I believe the current structure of CMA is good for the right individual.

Hope that answers your question.

[iflyforpie]

- F/O salaries are now competitively higher than industry standard.

Care to post what it is? When I was an F/O on a BE20/30/3B I was guaranteed 40k a year, but seemed to work out to about 50k.... I was also home virtually every day, live in a city I loved and had a wealth of benefits to go with the salary. I guess I'm just curious what you consider "industry standard".

Well, considering 1900 captains made roughly that a few years ago, I wouldn't hold out too much hopes of F/Os making anywhere near that much.

- Besides the pay cheque, you're treated fairly.

Exactly.

[+cHange]

- F/O salaries are now competitively higher than industry standard.

Care to post what it is? When I was an F/O on a BE20/30/3B I was guaranteed 40k a year, but seemed to work out to about 50k.... I was also home virtually every day, live in a city I loved and had a wealth of benefits to go with the salary. I guess I'm just curious what you consider "industry standard".

Well, considering 1900 captains made roughly that a few years ago, I wouldn't hold out too much hopes of F/Os making anywhere near that much.

- Besides the pay cheque, you're treated fairly.

Exactly.

Hehe, I can see how that can be taken wrong in context. I meant that as a positive, that besides the pay cheques (which are now much better), you're treated fairly. Just to clarify.

[Cough Syrup]

Pilot wages going up from any amount is still good....there are a lot worse places to work.

Don't like it, don't apply.

[Nordo]

I'm not in a position to comment on the exact salaries.

Do you work for the company? Are you HR? Why can you not post the salaries that you seem to believe are 'Above' standards?? The secrecy around salaries is quite unnecessary in a program where you are on a pay scale, unless the company is embarrassed about what they deem to be 'Above' standard, then I can see why they wouldn't want you to know until you have been swallowed by their bond.

[+cHange]

I'm not in a position to comment on the exact salaries.

Do you work for the company? Are you HR? Why can you not post the salaries that you seem to believe are 'Above' standards?? The secrecy around salaries is quite unnecessary in a program where you are on a pay scale, unless the company is embarrassed about what they deem to be 'Above' standard, then I can see why they wouldn't want you to know until you have been swallowed by their bond.

I will assure you that they are far from an embarrassment.

No I'm not in HR.

I won't post the salary scales, take the average of all 704/705 carriers doing the type of flying we do, and add a good percentage to it. It will put you above industry standard. So in a way I suppose you just found out that you will be making more than left seat at Encore, Sky Regional, Porter, Sunwest, North Cariboo etc. Same for right seat. Don't forget, this is all DOE. The more experience, the more pay. The equivalent reflects the 1900 salaries.

In my opinion that is positive information to figure out if you want to toss an application into the pool of resume's or not. Because it would allow you a more personal one on one chat about company changes, one of which have been significant salary increases. The intent of this thread is simply that; making you aware that there has been positive changes to help you make a more informed decision on putting in a resume or not. The rest is up to you and the interview panel to discuss, because I am not in a position to comment on exact salaries.

Personally, if I was looking for work and found out that the pay is above what I would make flying Q400's out of Toronto I would want to know more about it. And in the interview you'll have plenty of opportunity to discuss the salaries and how they progress. Maybe that's just me though.

As well, you will find out what your salary is when the job offer is made - this happens before signing any company paper work such as bonds.

I hope that helps disintegrate any assumptions about our positive changes here.

Thanks

[takamasa]

just out of curious,

do u guys have any jumpseat agreement with any airlines or ZED fare for family members?

thanks, +change, i definitely will look into CMA now

[scopiton]

is this up to date ?
http://..com/?page_id=353

take the average of all 704/705 carriers doing the type of flying we do, and add a good percentage to it. It will put you above industry standard.

what you're saying is the definition of median if I'm not wrong. Since when median defines standard, when the median salary of pilots decreased significantly in the last 2/3 years ?
above standards doesn't mean anything because there are no standard defined salaries in this industry according to L/R seat or/& equipment.
you have more or less from a company to another, from your previous job or your next one, etc... depends what you wanna trade in.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Well,

A Skipper at Porter starts at $77,749 so if you are paying more than that to start on the Classic, then I would say that's fair.

As for retention, IMHO, companies need to be around $90,000 a year minimum and a darn good schedule before they can realistically expect people to hang their hats for good at a Regional.

Cheers,

CK

PS. To the OP, thanks for posting.

[alexdenham]

is this up to date ?
http://..com/?page_id=353

Nope.

[esp803]

Thank you for posting, you didn't really answer my question. As it turns out, all I care about in work is money and time off. I remain skeptical that a CMA F/O nets over 40k a year. I guess this is probably not my cup of tea.

[+cHange]

Well,

A Skipper at Porter starts at $77,749 so if you are paying more than that to start on the Classic, then I would say that's fair.

As for retention, IMHO, companies need to be around $90,000 a year minimum and a darn good schedule before they can realistically expect people to hang their hats for good at a Regional.

Cheers,

CK

PS. To the OP, thanks for posting.

For you guys looking to come in dct entry on our 705 machine, it's highly likely you'll exceed 77749/yr. We have guys close to the 90's as we speak. Less than 2 years exp with the company.

Schedule is being worked on to become more competitive, but appropriate staffing is what we need for that which as you can tell in the job ads forum is being worked on as we speak.

is this up to date ?
http://..com/?page_id=353

take the average of all 704/705 carriers doing the type of flying we do, and add a good percentage to it. It will put you above industry standard.

what you're saying is the definition of median if I'm not wrong. Since when median defines standard, when the median salary of pilots decreased significantly in the last 2/3 years ?
above standards doesn't mean anything because there are no standard defined salaries in this industry according to L/R seat or/& equipment.
you have more or less from a company to another, from your previous job or your next one, etc... depends what you wanna trade in.

I think the above answers this quote.

just out of curious,

do u guys have any jumpseat agreement with any airlines or ZED fare for family members?

thanks, +change, i definitely will look into CMA now

We have ZED fares on several companies and individual agreements with others. Parents are eligible for ZED and some individual agreements.

ESP803, I'm sorry to hear you feel skeptical about the pay you mentioned. But it's very realistic to make that here now.

[50'minimums]

+cHange, I thank you for your post and series of replies.

There is no question that CMA has carried a reputation for having tough schedules and a week pay structure. That being said, I don't think that is uncommon of most middle size 704/705 operators at some point in their respective business lifespan. What is refreshing is that it appears that you have recognized an area of improvement in CMA and are taking steps to address and enhance a few key aspects of you company, as it pertains to flight crew and their employment satisfaction with CMA.

What is also great to see, is that you are able to post on this form and answer a few possible misconceptions, and steer the postings in the direction of fact rather then speculation. It is great to see such transparency from (what i would assume is) CMA management on this form. I believe you are setting a great example for other companies and their management, and i hope this encourages others to do the same.

Once again thank you all for your informative, insightful, and "open door" approach to your postings on this thread.

50'

[whiteguy]

So why the big secret in the pay? Why not post it?

[+cHange]

+cHange, I thank you for your post and series of replies.

There is no question that CMA has carried a reputation for having tough schedules and a week pay structure. That being said, I don't think that is uncommon of most middle size 704/705 operators at some point in their respective business lifespan. What is refreshing is that it appears that you have recognized an area of improvement in CMA and are taking steps to address and enhance a few key aspects of you company, as it pertains to flight crew and their employment satisfaction with CMA.

What is also great to see, is that you are able to post on this form and answer a few possible misconceptions, and steer the postings in the direction of fact rather then speculation. It is great to see such transparency from (what i would assume is) CMA management on this form. I believe you are setting a great example for other companies and their management, and i hope this encourages others to do the same.

Once again thank you all for your informative, insightful, and "open door" approach to your postings on this thread.

50'

That's the idea, to inform you guys that there's been some good changes here and the mindset of us is to continue making it better. The right people are in place in the company right now to implement such changes but time is needed for these growing times to solidify. One thing we are trying to improve substantially is the communication level within the company and to a reasonable level on the outside fronts.

Whiteguy, the reason I won't post salaries are because there has been enough information posted on what industry median is, and the fact that we are now paying more. If that's appealing the right individual will apply and inquire more about it. If it's not appealing the candidate probably has better job prospects on the line and should exercise those before coming here. We aren't AC/WJ/Canadian North today, and can't possibly be expected to compete on meeting max salaries to what they are paying. But we can certainly offer more initial pay than what you would make there a lot faster. Especially if those companies are hiring guys with time, most of those individuals would see DCT entry 705 or 704, making substantially more at CMA. Plus, which 705 operator in a big city offers left seat upgrades on a 705 machine without an 8-10 year wait? Keep that in mind if you're coming here as a 705/704 F/O. Also keep in mind, today we have about 20 airplanes, 4 of which are 705. This is changing, but the intent is that we are a different type of beast.

Companies like AC/WJ offer a type of career that we don't. We also offer a type of career that they don't which is now very competitive with all turboprop operators in Canada that do the same kind of flying we do. Hence for the right individual, CMA can be their final gig for the reason's posted in the original post.

It's recognized that for a retention company it's usually a triangle of pay, schedule, and holidays. We recognize this now and have improved the obtuse side of the triangle. That ought to tell you what's in the works. So I do rephrase that if you come here, it should be for long term goals not short term because these things aren't done overnight. There has been a lot of recognition of changes needed to be made in the last few years. Personally I'm glad we started with the largest aspect and that's pay. It does create a short-term fix to motivate people to stick around until we get a good schedule going.

I'm not going to share how we are going to get bigger on these forums just like I am not going to share what our pay is to the cent. But truth be told is that you will make good money here, and that we are expanding in some great fashions. So if you are interested to discuss these advances, toss in a resume and discuss it in your interview.

Hope this answers your inquiries.

[dhc#]

Will CMA ever paint their fleet one standard company color ?

[+cHange]

Will CMA ever paint their fleet one standard company color ?

Hehe, yes it's a slow but sure progress. We have a few paint jobs this year on our 1900's. It's hard to take a plane offline with all of them flying so much.

[whiteguy]

Whiteguy, the reason I won't post salaries are because there has been enough information posted on what industry median is, and the fact that we are now paying more. If that's appealing the right individual will apply and inquire more about it. If it's not appealing the candidate probably has better job prospects on the line and should exercise those before coming here. We aren't AC/WJ/Canadian North today, and can't possibly be expected to compete on meeting max salaries to what they are paying. But we can certainly offer more initial pay than what you would make there a lot faster. Especially if those companies are hiring guys with time, most of those individuals would see DCT entry 705 or 704, making substantially more at CMA. Plus, which 705 operator in a big city offers left seat upgrades on a 705 machine without an 8-10 year wait? Keep that in mind if you're coming here as a 705/704 F/O. Also keep in mind, today we have about 20 airplanes, 4 of which are 705. This is changing, but the intent is that we are a different type of beast.



Hope this answers your inquiries.

Not really but thanks anyway.....

[+cHange]

Not only positive changes for pilots but for maintenance as well. Payscale has increased to above industry standard in recent years to help retain AME's. Plenty of type courses and training invested as well. Great bunch of guys to work with and its hard to find a place that can top this gig.

This post was approved after some days. Just wanted to take the opportunity to draw some attention to it.

To add to this I also want to make you aware that the relationship between pilot's and maintenance is one of the best I have seen in this industry. We are all aware how tech savy maintenance is and how difficult it can be to sometimes listen to pilot's concerns. But our Maintenance staff maintain the utmost professionalism and if anything, have great friendships and relationships with the pilot's and work really well together.

All around things are improving you guys!

Have a great weekend.

[voodoomech]

To add to this I also want to make you aware that the relationship between pilot's and maintenance is one of the best I have seen in this industry. We are all aware how tech savy maintenance is and how difficult it can be to sometimes listen to pilot's concerns. But our Maintenance staff maintain the utmost professionalism and if anything, have great friendships and relationships with the pilot's and work really well together.

All around things are improving you guys!

Have a great weekend.

I think thats the same at most places . Pilots are a great bunch of guys to work with and pretty easy going. At this level in the game they know what a real snag is. Love working with you guys no matter how often you break things

[+cHange]

[dhc#]

What type of flying does the 705 operation do ? And where do they run, Alberta and/or BC elsewhere's?

Is it rig crew change work, or strictly sked stuff, and is it all based out of YYC or ?

Tx for response.