Form letter to the Jazz MEC

[Gilles Hudicourt]

A Jazz pilot who did not want to be identified here contacted me and asked me to post this form letter here. I accepted but this is not my initiative for it concerns the internal affairs of another union.


Captain Claude Buraglia
Jazz MEC Chairman


On October 3, 2013 you attended a special Canada Board meeting that was convened at the request of the Air Transat (TSC) MEC to discuss the foreign pilot issue. During the meeting the TSC Foreign Pilot Committee made a presentation claiming that Transport Canada is issuing Foreign Licence Validation Certificates (FLVC) in violation of the CARs and allowing hundreds of foreign pilots to fly regular revenue flights for Sunwing and Canjet without proper licences. They also shared a letter from Dan Adamus to Transport Canada dated March 20, 2013, in which ALPA questions the legality of FLVCs issued to the Sunwing and Canjet pilots.

On October 3 the TSC MEC asked the CBOD to join a coalition of Pilot Associations in order to challenge TC’s position on FLVCs by all means available and bring this practice to a stop. They informed the CBOD that the TSC MEC Foreign Pilot Committee made the same presentation and request to the Air Canada Pilot Association MEC on September 11, 2013 and that the ACPA MEC unanimously voted in favour of joining a coalition.

It has come to my attention that during the post-presentation discussions the TSC request to join a coalition was rejected by all MECs including Jazz. Therefore, as a member in good standing of the Jazz Council LEC I wish to inform you that I strongly disagree with your refusal to join a coalition on this issue and that I support the request of the TSC MEC. I am asking you to reconsider your decision and that the Jazz MEC supports the request of the TSC MEC.

In solidarity,

Name

ALPA #

[Black Cat]

Thank you very much for posting this request Gilles. Hopefully all jazz pilots who frequent this forum will sign and also forward onto our peers.

[biatch]

The MEC has addressed the membership as to why it took the stance it did on this issue. Tell your friend to look it up.

Furthermore, while I admire the cause Gilles, and the effort you have put in, perhaps airing your dirty laundry in public has reached a point where you're starting to do more harm than good. Perhaps legal threats has stopped people from continuing the discussion and instead has them getting ready for their own legal fight. And perhaps you would like to share with everyone here what your own legal advisors have said about your chances of success using the current strategy.

There's another way to achieve the goal and I think ALPA is on the right track.

Also, your friend has nothing to fear about bringing up any subject with those who represent him. He sounds like a joke to me. Of course that's if he even exists.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

A few corrections:

1) I have no dirty laundry. ALPA seems to have quite a bit of it though.
2) I have no legal opinion. You are refering to one Air Transat obtained for itself and which was written not for ALPA members or for a pilot Union but for Air Transat as a competing airline.
Plus, new Access to Information Requests have revealed new information which had not yet been brought to light when that legal opinion was written. Like the ALPA March 20th 2013 letter to Transport Canada which was only discovered through an ATIP request on June 11th (by an Air Canada pilot). There is more.....

One of the things our Committee was asking from ALPA is precisely a budget to get our own legal opinion, a request that was turned down for obvious reasons, for it would surely come to the same conclusion that all the others came to: FLVCs as used by Canjet are Sunwing are illegal.

ALPA is on record that FLVCs are illegal. So that is not the issue. The issue is that I want to fight these illegal FLVCs, ALPA does not. Fighting them in court is only one of the manners to fight these. But that was a last recourse, one that was purposely obscured by those who wanted this issue dead in the water.

Imagine if all major pilot unions and pilots associations of this country had presented to Transport Canada a United front stating that FLVCs, as issued to Canjet Pilots and Sunwing pilots were illegal, a front backed by a legal opinions written by a top notch aviation law firm, do you really think that it would have been necessary to go to court over this ? All airline pilots in this country united on this issue?

We were the TSC MEC, and we had already been joined by ACPA. We needed the rest of ALPA and ALPA said:

"They are illegal but we don't want to upset our good friends at Transport Canada over this, so lets just ignore it".

What kind of pilot union is that ?

This winter again, Transport Canada will issue over 100 FLVCs to foreign pilots who would not be able to have them had ALPA decided to contest their legality. ALPA is now complicit in the foreign pilot issue, against the best interests of Canadian pilots.

Why I want to fight the illegal FLVCs is obvious and clear. No dirty laundry there.

Why ALPA, instead of being on-side, is fighting those who want to fight these illegal FLVCs and is defending Transport Canada is everything, but obvious and very opaque. This is where you should be looking for dirty laundry.

Gilles Hudicourt (And who are you ?)

PS. Although ACPA was on board, their president, Craig Blandford, was vocally against fighting Transport Canada over this issue. His MEC voted againts his wishes and asked him to join the coalition against FLVCs. Why do you think that this same Craig Blandford was invided to the ALPA dinner at the Aviation Museum ? So he could portray to the ALPA Canada board members present not the opinion and position of ACPA, as the ACPA MEC voted, but his own personal opinion, which was aligned with Dan Adamus'. His presence at that dinner was not casual and was not an accident but but a carefully and I must say intelligently planned ploy which worked. How many heard from Craid Blandford's mouth that ACPA really didn't support this FLVC coalition ? Any of you have enough guts to post it here ?

[biatch]

Gilles I think you're way off the mark about ALPA. I believe ALPA is taking an approach of courting Transport Canada to sway it to your point of view whereas you're camp wants to fight it out in courts and such. The moment you start legal action rhetoric, the opposing party is no longer willing to discuss since they must now prepare to defend themselves. It effectively shuts down dialogue. I don't think ALPA believes it is in the profession's best interest to challenge the regulator in the courts just yet. I think ALPA sees an opportunity to negotiate and the results of such an agreement could bear fruit far sooner than any legal/court action.

BTW, "airing dirty laundry" is an expression signifying, among other things, a dispute in public; in front of everyone. I didn't exactly mean it in a bad way although I can understand if you took it that way. Airing it out was necessary to get it on the radar. It's definitely on the radar now. And most pilots, including myself, recognize your efforts and goodwill to the profession in Canada.

Sorry but I'm just the Biatch.

There are plenty of reasons why ALPA might have a dinner conversation with ACPA these days and probably none have anything to do with this!

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Gilles I think you're way off the mark about ALPA. I believe ALPA is taking an approach of courting Transport Canada to sway it to your point of view whereas you're camp wants to fight it out in courts and such. The moment you start legal action rhetoric, the opposing party is no longer willing to discuss since they must now prepare to defend themselves. It effectively shuts down dialogue. I don't think ALPA believes it is in the profession's best interest to challenge the regulator in the courts just yet. I think ALPA sees an opportunity to negotiate and the results of such an agreement could bear fruit far sooner than any legal/court action.

BTW, "airing dirty laundry" is an expression signifying, among other things, a dispute in public; in front of everyone. I didn't exactly mean it in a bad way although I can understand if you took it that way. Airing it out was necessary to get it on the radar. It's definitely on the radar now. And most pilots, including myself, recognize your efforts and goodwill to the profession in Canada.

Sorry but I'm just the Biatch.

There are plenty of reasons why ALPA might have a dinner conversation with ACPA these days and probably none have anything to do with this!

Let me repeat the parts you seem to have not read :

Fighting them in court is only one of the manners to fight these. But that was a last recourse, one that was purposely obscured by those who wanted this issue dead in the water.

Imagine if all major pilot unions and pilots associations of this country had presented to Transport Canada a United front stating that FLVCs, as issued to Canjet Pilots and Sunwing pilots were illegal, a front backed by a legal opinions written by a top notch aviation law firm, do you really think that it would have been necessary to go to court over this ? All airline pilots in this country united on this issue?

Step one was not going to court or taking any form of legal action against Transport but showing Transport Canada a united front against FLVCs for commercial line flying and telling Transport that according to existing regulations, Canadian Airline flying is meant for Canadian Airline Pilots, not for European pilots.

That is what ALPA voted "no" to.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Of course that's if he even exists.

And thank you for calling me a liar "biatch". That is so easy to do when behind an alias.

[biatch]

I just can't believe that we have a pilot that is such a scared little pussy-cat he has to run to Gilles Hudicourt to reach his MEC.

You seem a little sensitive today, Gilles. Perhaps the change in weather is not up your alley.

[chikiebella]

Biatch,

My name is Michel Perreault as you can see I am not afraid to use my real name on this forum. You can also notice that very rarely I intervened on this forum.
I am an airline pilot and I work for AC. I've been working with Gilles for almost 2 years now on the topic of the foreigns pilots.
I spent hundreds of hours sometime away from my 3 kids to try to stop this insanity of FLVC's used by operators for commercial flights.

During that 2 years I saw with my own eyes how TC is manoeuvring ,hiding and lying around the FLVC's. How TC is in violation of the Access of Information law by creating unnecessary delays and covering most of the sensitive information they sent to us.
I had multiple conversation with several TC inspectors and even the Chief of Law Enforcement. Some of them confirmed the gag order they got from upper management at TC and others told me that they can not talk to me (no wonder). I have in hand an email received via ATIP from the Ministers office telling the people at Transport not to answer the complaint letters sent last year.

Thanks to a few TC inspectors who have taken the risk to talk to me and to express their frustration about the FLVC's.

Most of the inspectors are sympathetic to our cause and can not act since the decision came from the politic and the minister is their big boss as you know. The negotiation with TC will result to nothing since the decision came from the minister cabinet anyway. This conservative government is excellent at facilitating foreigners to work in this country and to thanks their friends who get them elected (read the newspapers).

I don't know how important is your license for you but I can tell you that it is very important for me. This pilot license you have is like a commodity and the wage and work condition you can get for it is directly related to the number of licenses in circulation. With the FLVC's used the way there are right now, virtually anybody from anywhere can come to work in Canada and take the job of a Canadian pilot.

Don't you think that by respect to our profession its our duty and responsibility to close that tap?

We are not loose cannons and we believe in negotiation and politic until it fail and we passed that mark long time ago. Under Dan Adamus the number of FLVC's went up in numbers since 2006 until Gilles Hudicourt put the spotlight on it about a year ago.

Using your words here: "To bring TC to court ." Well this is a halloween scary way to look at it.

The process is called judicial review and it take place into an administrative tribunal. Basically the hearing officer will take the paperwork from both sides and after review will decide if the Minister's decision will be reversed or not. Nobody will go to jail, nobody will get fine and nobody will be called as a witness. This process is purely administrative.

What are you afraid of?

In Canada we have the most liberal rules for pilot duty in the ICAO. Dan Adamus didn't changed anything about that so far and Craig "Blindfold" oupsss Blandford either. By the way ACPA MEC is fully supportive of the judicial review and they all voted to be part of a coalition to take action.

So tell me even if few people at TC or the Sinister's office are upset for a while don't you think that protecting 200 very good pilot jobs and the respect for our profession is a good compensation?

To finish a quote from Winston Churchill that resume very well the situation:

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."

I was there on October 3rd at the ALPA meeting and I was not impressed by the decision making of people who call themselves union representative.

This is the time to put all together our pants on!


Cheers!

[TrailerParkBoy]

Maybe it's time to vote in new voices in the LECs and MEC...only ALPA members can control that! Don't fight the members, fight the power!

[Gilles Hudicourt]

I was surprised when I received the Nov 11, 2013 Fastread from ALPA to notice that it failed to mention what had happened in YOW on Oct 03. Not even a vague reference to it, as though that day had never occured. When I inquired to my MEC and they in turn inquired to the Canada Board, they were told that it was up to the individual MECs to inform their members about what had taken place on Oct 03. So my MEC drafted a memo that they sent to all TSC MEC members.

Did the Jazz MEC do the same, or did you all learn of the Oct 03 meeting through Social Media or through word of mouth ?

[biatch]

Jazz MEC recently spoke about the issue via a Q&A. They may have put out a memo, however with the amount of memos we receive I can't recall and I haven't checked.

As for fear, I have none. If you 2 want to identify yourselves on an otherwise anonymous handle-driven forum that's up to you. You're not just a minority, you're an anomaly, but whatever the choice is yours. And mine.

What I do take exception to is some prick apparently within my own pilot group who Gilles claims is afraid to approach the MEC with concerns on this issue. I call full-out bullshit on that because there is absolutely no reason to fear anyone within Jazz ALPA. Quite the contrary, this division of ALPA is outstanding in its support for its pilot group and any concerns they may have. Even in disagreement. Again, that's if said pilot isn't a figment of Gilles imagination.

Trailer: We are a representative democracy and the LEC's have been voted in by all of us who took the time. They in turn voted in the MEC Chair based, among other things, on his fantastic past performances in other areas. The "Power" by the way, is the group not the elected ones. Their powers are limited by terms.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

I get called a liar a second time by same person, who claims to respect what I do.

Same scenario. When attacking the message is impossible, attack the messenger.........I know the drill, am used to it by now.

[Beach 200]

What I do take exception to is some prick apparently within my own pilot group

So is that what we are when we call upon the MEC for help? We are just "pricks". Funny thing is you will not stand up for your views but instead call out someone as being a nuisance within the pilot group. Especially shameful if someone does not share the same views as you. I suppose your the idiot who believes we still need to pay for this assessment on my pay cheque. An assessment that is probably going to be spent next year on something totally useless, unless something of dire need comes up within the near future. Yes I voted No to this assessment. What good is ALPA as a union unless they can pony up the funds from my damn dues to pay for something to protect our jobs. Instead of our own MEC collecting money to fend for themselves cause head office of the Union won't.
Our MEC hasn't even conceived that it is totally possible that AC can use FLVC's to replace Jazz and the CPA? It's not impossible and totally allowable unless we fight this issue. Give your head a shake man. This may not effect us at Jazz presently, hence why no one gives a shit cause it's happening elsewhere, but it's a matter of time.

[biatch]

I'll call anyone in our membership who claims they can't send their own letter of concern to our MEC out of fear or whatever reason, but will instead send it to a third party to have them stir the pot on the internet, a cowardly little prick indeed Beech. As for your comments on AC and the CPA, are you really being serious? Have you ever read the document? Thanks for coming out.

Gilles, you and Perreault have indeed put your own twist on the October meetings. Nonetheless, I respect the cause but not the guy. Because the guy is starting to go around and crap in everyone's front yard to the point where others are starting to tune him out.

You guys should dress up as Pinnochio tonight, but do go to different parties or it could get redundant.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

I'll call anyone in our membership who claims they can't send their own letter of concern to our MEC out of fear or whatever reason, but will instead send it to a third party to have them stir the pot on the internet, a cowardly little prick indeed Beech. As for your comments on AC and the CPA, are you really being serious? Have you ever read the document? Thanks for coming out.

Gilles, you and Perreault have indeed put your own twist on the October meetings. Nonetheless, I respect the cause but not the guy. Because the guy is starting to go around and crap in everyone's front yard to the point where others are starting to tune him out.

You guys should dress up as Pinnochio tonight, but do go to different parties or it could get redundant.

Biatch, every time I write on the subject of the Oct 03 meeting on Forums or Social media, my MEC gets a call from someone at ALPA asking them to pressure me into removing my post. I complied once because my MEC wanted to be the first to write about it to its members.

But it happened again yesterday, a few minutes after I posted the above form letter........ so to claim that your own members could do it and walk away unscathed is untrue and dishonest.......like happened to me, he/she would be told to remove it.

People get very upset when people like me call their shenanigans on public forums. I would too. The only way to avoid such things is to stay clear of shenanigans, especially when you represent the interests of people who voted you in.

Michel and I were there at the Oct 03 meeting, you weren't (I'm going out on a limb and assuming you are female with such a handle.). I would just love to see how the Jazz MEC explained what happened on Oct 03 to its members and its justification for not joining this coalition with ACPA.

[chikiebella]

Biatch,

I think it's a waste of time to try to convince you of anything since you have no valid arguments here.
It would be more appropriate that you put more meat around the bone when you try to be informative.
Depreciation and insult of your colleagues will bring you nowhere.

We are not the enemy here. Lower your guns and direct your anger towards the people who give FLVC's to foreigners and to the CRI who close their eyes to the fact that these pilots are paid offshore and do not contribute to our society while we have our own on EI.

Pinocchio is a marionette who does not have any strings attach to him like me and Gilles. Can you say the same thing? Do you have at least an intellectual argument that comes from you and not the president of ALPA Canada that we can learn something and be more effective at protecting our profession?

With respect,

Pinocchio.

[anonymity]

Gilles, I just read a detailed response from our MEC about this meeting and while I don't want to publish it on a public site I will say this, they agree with your view on the issue but they have been advised against the tactics you're suggesting.
I am personally satisfied they are moving in the right direction and in our best interest. It would be great if this was fixed overnight but the fact is, you/we could win a legal battle with T.C, which could abolish FLVCs and they could change the regs to suit their needs, so it would be all for naught.
Thank you for all your efforts!

[prop2jet]

The justification explained by the Jazz MEC in layman terms is that the matter of the FLVC is best left to backroom politicing. They do not approve of anyone acting outside their game plan. They would rather take the approach of working with TC rather than rock the boat.

Biatch speaks of representative democracy. Well, that is a nice little buzz word expression for an "old boys club". Yes we all get to nominate and vote for our LEC reps, they in turn are supposed to deliver the grass root message to those whom they in turn have nominated and elected. And it gets better, we as general members have no vote in determining who gets to sit on the throne in Herndon. Not a perfect system. Time and again people come forward and propose new ways of doing things that unfortunately run against the prevailing and entrenched views at the top.

As members we have to accept responsibility for this given what seems to be a general lack of interest or apathy towards the system. Proof is in the numbers who actually participate in any voting, except for perhaps a new TA.

Sometimes the grassroots have to resort to other methods in order to have their voice heard. If a member of ALPA is being asked by their MEC to retract or refrain from doing something, I guess the question begs, what are they afraid of?

[Beach 200]

I'll call anyone in our membership who claims they can't send their own letter of concern to our MEC out of fear or whatever reason, but will instead send it to a third party to have them stir the pot on the internet, a cowardly little prick indeed Beech. As for your comments on AC and the CPA, are you really being serious? Have you ever read the document? Thanks for coming out.

I'm talking post 2020 and not present day. I know how a contract works. Or do you plan to be retired by then and not give a shit. Thanks for coming out. I'll be sure to kick you in the nuts on your retirement day for f'ing up the remainder of my career cause you didn't care to listen to our concerns now!

[chikiebella]

Its been to many talk behind the doors that lead nowhere.

ACPA recognized it and this is why they are supportive unanimously at the MEC level of a coalition to solved the problem. Only the president of ACPA didn't get it yet. But the way that the structure and constitution is made he is forced by the MEC resolution to act in favour. That is not what he did on October 3rd unfortunately.

Apathy is the best way to define what is going on at AC when it comes time to support the union. Some members are more engage and vocal and others don't have a clue of who is in office to represent them.

One thing is sure is that the members who are engage are the one who vote get informed and challenge the decision of their MEC. All the pilots who are well informed at AC are very supportive of such an action because they made their own mind.

I don't want to intervene into Jazz business but it seems appropriate that the Jazz grassroots start to ask questions as why in 2013 it is still happening when the FLVC's has been use at large since 2006.

Can we try something different? Why are we scared to challenge the legislator when they violate their own CAR's?

I don't think that this government will have the appetite to change the CAR's to allow foreigners to get more access to our employment market after the FLVC's have been challenged on a judicial review and has been the centre of the Medias attention. Specially so close from the next election.

This is why if we row all together in the same direction we will be able to archive our goal without the judicial review and the medias attention.

I am not directly affected by the foreign pilots. It won't touch my job and my pay. But I am extremely concerned by the devaluation of our profession and licenses.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Gilles, I just read a detailed response from our MEC about this meeting and while I don't want to publish it on a public site I will say this, they agree with your view on the issue but they have been advised against the tactics you're suggesting.
I am personally satisfied they are moving in the right direction and in our best interest. It would be great if this was fixed overnight but the fact is, you/we could win a legal battle with T.C, which could abolish FLVCs and they could change the regs to suit their needs, so it would be all for naught.
Thank you for all your efforts!

Thank you for this post. I will then clarify and tell you the truth.

I was not proposing any tactics. I was not proposing any methods.

Here is what the position of our Committee was:

1) We think FLVCs are illegal as they are used for Canjet and Sunwing.

2) ALPA, athough they don't interpret the CARs exactly like we do, has also come out in a secret March 20th 2013 letter to Transport Canada in stating that they also agree that FLVCs are illegal.

3) We asked ACPA to form a coalition with us (ALPA) against FLVCs. ACPA accepted, unanimously.

4) We asked that ALPA Canada accept to join ACPA and other unions in such a coalition against the illegal use of FLVCs.


How that coalition was going to be formed, what its game plan was going to be, what methods it was going to use to fight FLVC, all this would be left up to those who were going to form that Pan-Union Committee against illegal FLVCs.

Gilles Hudicourt was not going to decide these things. Gilles Hudicourt was not going to dictate the methods that were going to be used. Gilles Hudicourt was not going to be directing strategy. It was not even determined that Gilles Hudicourt would be part of the Committee or that I would accept to be part of it.

So in essence, what ALPA said "NO" to on Oct 03 had nothing to do with my methods, nothing to do with my strategies, nothing to do with the fictitious LAWSUIT against Transport Canada that they put forward as a scarecrow to those present although I never said or suggested that is what I wanted to do.

What ALPA voted "NO" to was the creation of a formal Pan-Union Committee against the illegal use of FLVCs on which it would sit (by nominating people to it), along with other nominees from other Unions, including ACPA, and which Committee would decide on how to deal with those illegal FLVCs in the manner the Committee saw fit.

Such a Pan-Union Committee would have had tremendous bargaining power had it included ALPA, ACPA and the WJPA.

Had ALPA voted "YES" on Oct 03, this issue would now be in controlled hands of a Pan-Union ACPA-ALPA (and possibly other unions) Committee, which would be making its the decisions on strategy and methods. Not me.

Had ALPA voted "YES" ont Oct 03, this issue would no longer be in my hands and on public forums, where the ALPA Oct 03 vote left it and I would not be be here, writing this today.

Respectfully.

Gilles Hudicourt

[teacher]

Gilles,

With all due respect there's nothing we can do to change the government’s policies unless they themselves decide to do so. No matter what we do if they don't want to do it they won't. That has been the policy of the Conservative government from day 1. ALPA has based their efforts on this premise that if you go against the grain than progress will not be made. It's better to be in the room negotiating than outside holding a picket sign isn't it? Just look what they did to us (Jazz)!!! Even though it's spelled out in our contract that we ARE NOT an essential service we were labeled as such after our strike vote and threatened with back to work legislation.

To add to the above do you really think that the government would make a drastic change affecting Sunwing and Canjet therefore also affecting the cheap vacations of thousands of Canadian all for a few hundred pilot jobs at best? I don't think so. The best we can hope for is what ALPA has done so far and have incremental changes to the rules that have a limited effect on the bottom-line of a Canadian company.

The only drastic technique we could ever use to change the rules would be if EVERY pilot in Canada refused to go to work until the rules were changed in our favour, PERIOD. But we all know that would never happen. Next best thing in my opinion is to have a seat at the table and talk this out with TC and the Canadian government. It's slow and painful but it's better than no progress at all.

I'll take a guess here but I'm sure that what ALPA is afraid of is ALPA represented pilots making noise and embarrassing the government and therefore shutting ALPA out from the room and any further negotiations on the subject.

**I support ALPA's efforts thus far HOWEVER I reserve the right to withdraw my support if I choose in the future

[prop2jet]

Teacher, it might be worthy to go back and review what transpired with the Foreign Worker program. If I recall RBC was sending work offshore causing a number of Canadian workers to lose their jobs. It was in large part their vocal opposition and bringing it to the forefront of public awareness that the Feds had to do a quick backtrack. It does not look good on them when jobs are being farmed out.

Working within the political system is to be expected however there also comes a time when one has to make light of the hypocrisy of it all. If they can't or won't enforce the current rules, what is to stop them from enforcing new ones?

[teacher]

The RBC situation may have sped things up but ALPA had been dealing with this issue already for years. Those new rules were in par the ones negotiated by ALPA for many years as far as I've been told.

The slow pace of change is appalling I agree, but saying ALPA isn't doing anything is hugely incorrect.