Now that GGN has a cadet program and an agreement with Moncton Flight College, what are the chances of someone outside of these programs getting hired on?

Brampton, Ottawa Aviation Services along with Sault College for the Mentor Program to add to the list.

If you can walk and talk, you're chances are pretty good. Most are desperate to leave, management can't keep up with attrition, and flights are being cancelled/delayed due to crewing issues (amongst other things).

Those cadet programs typically only give interviews and take 1-2 students per year max from each school. The cadets they bring on, although I'm sure are highly motivated, are grossly under qualified. It typically takes 3-4 years to upgrade to the left seat IF the company has the ability to do PICUS and the cadets meet the ATPL requirements. They can't keep up with attrition as is, and they can't pair two 250 hour guys and gals together which means they are doing plenty of hiring from all walks of aviation backgrounds. If you are interested, throw your resume in to the hat. If you have any kind of decent qualifications I'd bet you'd get a phone call.

PR

Just drink the cool-aid boys, just drink.

Hey Stopbar,

I could be wrong, but I get the impression from your post that you don't approve of people working for companies like Georgian, CMA, PASCO etc... Just out of curiosity, where would you recommend a 1200-2000hr pilot looking for 704/705 time apply so they can gain some valuable experience that would catch the attention of the majors?

PR

Its the crap pay and working conditions that today's pilots are are lining up for in droves that I don't agree with.

If they pay crap and nobody takes the job then they will have to pay better or improve the conditions to get applicants.

++1!

Ok, I can understand that. Where specifically would you suggest people apply if they are looking for a job at the 704 level?

You should turn down every job offer until Air Canada starts hiring 250hr pilots at $38,000 per year

JohnnyHotRocks wrote:You should turn down every job offer until Air Canada starts hiring 250hr pilots at $38,000 per year

Thank you Johnny, this is kind of what I'm getting at. It's really not that simple is it? It is a noble notion to suggest that we all band together and refuse to accept jobs until we get the pay scale and schedule we desire, however, the fact is I can't afford to sit on my ass, or a picket line, and wait the years required to make that happen. In fact, it wont happen because we are paid exactly what we are worth. You have to realize that what we are worth is not only the amount of risk, responsibility and pressure we assume on the job. It also factors in the demand for our position. The fact is there are too many pilots in our community looking for jobs. It is easy to sit fat, dumb and happy from a decent paying position with an air carrier and yell down in the megaphone to the industry neophytes to stop accepting these jobs at these wages. People can't afford not to work!

The wages at Georgian, CMA, Pasco, West Wind etc... are livable wages. By that I mean you can afford to pay rent, student loans, taxes, and feed yourself. Surely taking such a job, gaining experience and moving forward to the better end of your career is better than sitting in the unemployment line complaining that the golden years of the industry passed by before you were even born. The state of the industry is nothing new, and if you don't like it, perhaps some research should have been done before you decided this was the career for you.

So Stopbar, I'll ask again. If I were working as an instructor, or a 703 operator making less than 25K a year and I was looking to apply at a 704 with the aim of eventually advancing to 705, what companies do you suggest I apply to that would not offend your opinion of the state of this industry?

stopbar wrote:Its the crap pay and working conditions that today's pilots are are lining up for in droves that I don't agree with.

If they pay crap and nobody takes the job then they will have to pay better or improve the conditions to get applicants.

AND, they're lining up around the block to pay cash, or sign huge bonds for the god given right to starve to death living in their parent's basements.
Daddy, I need another ten grand....

I still get an allowance from my parents.... so that is cool, man! I really want this job!

.

^ Why not just go to the interview and ask them? Then you'll hear it straight from the horse's mouth, and not from some anonymous internet identity who may or may not know what s/he is talking about..

Agreed North Shore, but that might be along the same lines as asking a flight college what the job prospects are like at the present time. Going to have to be some salt grains there too.

North Shore wrote:^ Why not just go to the interview and ask them? Then you'll hear it straight from the horse's mouth, and not from some anonymous internet identity who may or may not know what s/he is talking about..

Simply going for an interview is not a viable option for many. Air Georgian does not cover accomodation or transportation to and from interviews. I had 1000 hours command on the 1900 when they invited me to spend over a thousand dollars travelling across the country to find out their terms and conditions. Glad I got some info on the net before hand and didn't waste my time or theirs going to find out how many peanuts I might be payed.

peakbagger wrote:

North Shore wrote:^ Why not just go to the interview and ask them? Then you'll hear it straight from the horse's mouth, and not from some anonymous internet identity who may or may not know what s/he is talking about..

Simply going for an interview is not a viable option for many. Air Georgian does not cover accomodation or transportation to and from interviews. I had 1000 hours command on the 1900 when they invited me to spend over a thousand dollars travelling across the country to find out their terms and conditions. Glad I got some info on the net before hand and didn't waste my time or theirs going to find out how many peanuts I might be payed.

Exactly, why not going there with the most information I can before

They would like 2500 TT before upgrading. Should be about 7-8 months for you with 2000TT.

Slowprop wrote:Anybody has information about upgrade time ? I got called for a FO interview when I've apply for captain position.

How much time can it takes for someone who has 2000+ with ATPL

You don't actually expect them to give you a direct entry command spot on a beech 1900 with 2000+ hrs do you? What unbelievable sense of entitlement you must have to think that.

I'd imagine you would be in the right seat at least a year. I would hope so anyways.

rooster wrote:

Slowprop wrote:Anybody has information about upgrade time ? I got called for a FO interview when I've apply for captain position.

How much time can it takes for someone who has 2000+ with ATPL

You don't actually expect them to give you a direct entry command spot on a beech 1900 with 2000+ hrs do you? What unbelievable sense of entitlement you must have to think that.

I'd imagine you would be in the right seat at least a year. I would hope so anyways.

[sarcasm] Ya, what are you, crazy? Thinking you could be in command of a twin turboprop with only 2000hrs and an ATP [/sarcasm]

At my company someone got upgraded at 2500 hours on a Dash 8... Another person upgraded at 2700 hours too on 705 machine. So i guess it's not that uncommon?

I heard from Kristen Menecola that they start considering outside applicants around 2700-2800 hours for dct entry captain. Hopefully that answers your question slowprop.

rooster wrote:
What unbelievable sense of entitlement you must have to think that.

I think slowprops question is more genuine to find out about min time for captaincy at the company versus an entitlement issue.

You look at BE20 captains, they range anywhere from 2000 hours to crazy amounts. BE20 and 1900? I would imagine not a whole whack of a difference. So I think it's fair to ask if he'd be looked at 2000 hours and and ATPL.

My 2 cents

Hello all,

Just wondering if anyone is currently in the Hiring Pool for an FO position?

thanks

PositiveRate27 wrote:

JohnnyHotRocks wrote:You should turn down every job offer until Air Canada starts hiring 250hr pilots at $38,000 per year

Thank you Johnny, this is kind of what I'm getting at. It's really not that simple is it? It is a noble notion to suggest that we all band together and refuse to accept jobs until we get the pay scale and schedule we desire, however, the fact is I can't afford to sit on my ass, or a picket line, and wait the years required to make that happen. In fact, it wont happen because we are paid exactly what we are worth. You have to realize that what we are worth is not only the amount of risk, responsibility and pressure we assume on the job. It also factors in the demand for our position. The fact is there are too many pilots in our community looking for jobs. It is easy to sit fat, dumb and happy from a decent paying position with an air carrier and yell down in the megaphone to the industry neophytes to stop accepting these jobs at these wages. People can't afford not to work!

The wages at Georgian, CMA, Pasco, West Wind etc... are livable wages. By that I mean you can afford to pay rent, student loans, taxes, and feed yourself. Surely taking such a job, gaining experience and moving forward to the better end of your career is better than sitting in the unemployment line complaining that the golden years of the industry passed by before you were even born. The state of the industry is nothing new, and if you don't like it, perhaps some research should have been done before you decided this was the career for you.

So Stopbar, I'll ask again. If I were working as an instructor, or a 703 operator making less than 25K a year and I was looking to apply at a 704 with the aim of eventually advancing to 705, what companies do you suggest I apply to that would not offend your opinion of the state of this industry?

I notice your post was totally ignored, but not surprised. Don't worry, I felt the same in your position a few years ago. Decide what your own personal limits are and go from there. Good luck.

sstaurus wrote:

PositiveRate27 wrote:

JohnnyHotRocks wrote:You should turn down every job offer until Air Canada starts hiring 250hr pilots at $38,000 per year

Thank you Johnny, this is kind of what I'm getting at. It's really not that simple is it? It is a noble notion to suggest that we all band together and refuse to accept jobs until we get the pay scale and schedule we desire, however, the fact is I can't afford to sit on my ass, or a picket line, and wait the years required to make that happen. In fact, it wont happen because we are paid exactly what we are worth. You have to realize that what we are worth is not only the amount of risk, responsibility and pressure we assume on the job. It also factors in the demand for our position. The fact is there are too many pilots in our community looking for jobs. It is easy to sit fat, dumb and happy from a decent paying position with an air carrier and yell down in the megaphone to the industry neophytes to stop accepting these jobs at these wages. People can't afford not to work!

The wages at Georgian, CMA, Pasco, West Wind etc... are livable wages. By that I mean you can afford to pay rent, student loans, taxes, and feed yourself. Surely taking such a job, gaining experience and moving forward to the better end of your career is better than sitting in the unemployment line complaining that the golden years of the industry passed by before you were even born. The state of the industry is nothing new, and if you don't like it, perhaps some research should have been done before you decided this was the career for you.

So Stopbar, I'll ask again. If I were working as an instructor, or a 703 operator making less than 25K a year and I was looking to apply at a 704 with the aim of eventually advancing to 705, what companies do you suggest I apply to that would not offend your opinion of the state of this industry?

I notice your post was totally ignored, but not surprised. Don't worry, I felt the same in your position a few years ago. Decide what your own personal limits are and go from there. Good luck.

Thanks sstaurus, I'm not surprised it was ignored either. Not to worry, I'm happily employed at an airline I chose to work for. My question was more to help out the aspiring pilots behind us. Its funny how people will complain about the state of affairs, and badger the folks trying to make a life out of their situations, yet offer no support or guidance when an honest question is asked of them in return. Their silence speaks volumes. I think its easy for people to forget how tough it is at the bottom of a mountain looking up, when you are standing at the top looking down.

Cheers,
PR