Won't be long till it's fully entrenched here.

[Driving Rain]

http://www.latestpilotjobs.com/jobs/view/id/3082.html



B737NG First Officer Self Funded Line Training
Company : MSD Aviation Pvt. Ltd.
Contract type : Other
Aircraft type : Boeing 737 - 6/7/8/900 NG
Job location : Bangladesh
Job published date : 2013-12-06
Job expiry date : 2013-12-09
Monthly salary :

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Job Description
Our client Airlines has asked for candidates looking to self fund a Line Training on the B737 aircraft. 500 hours of actual flying time on the aircraft. Cost of the program is Euros 55,000.00.

Only JAA/EASA Licences accepted. Valid and current Type Rating.

Willing to start immediately.

Applications invited on hr@msdaviation.com.
Limited slots available.
Contact :
Website : www.msdaviation.com
Phone : +91.11.4219 8484/85
Fax :
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[complexintentions]

Perhaps, but I think one trip to Dhaka will put off anyone thinking about joining this particular one.

[cdnpilot77]

The insane part is they likely won't be able to keep up with demand. A quick read of PPrune shows how ridiculous people are in the attempt to justify this!

[whodareswins]

These programs have been around for years. MSD is just a relatively new player targeting low time Indian pilots. Eagle Jet International has had these types of schemes for ages. It's disheartening to read so many posts on PPRUNE from people wanting to pay to fly.

[teacher]

I once had a student from India ask me who he bribed in Canada to pass his test and get his license. No lie, he was serious and was shocked when I told him there was no other way than to pass and fill out forms to get a license.

Either way, as for Canada just say no. This stuff will end fast here if NOBODY applies.

[North Shore]

I sure wish I had 55k Euros!












I'd pay off my mortgage!

[cdnpilot77]

I sure wish I had 55k Euros!












I'd pay off my mortgage!

Pfft, you clearly don't know how to blow money. Talk to Doc, judging by the latest thread he started (haven't seen him or that thread around lately) he knows how to blow 55k right!!

[arctic_slim]

Wow. I don't know how after spending CA$70K on school I would be able to afford 55K EURO to fly a 737 in Bangladesh. I don't understand how people are soe desperate to fly a 737 to pay that kind of money. Is that the only option they have around there or what?

I love flying, and flying a 737 is my biggest dream but I would never think about paying to get on it. I'm relying on career progression to eventually get me there sometime during my career.

[sstocker31]

Anyone who pays for this themselves should be put in front of a firing squad !

[Boreas]

Anyone who pays for this themselves should be put in front of a firing squad !

You won't have too many targets. Its usually the individual's parents
that fund these sort of things - all for a chance to brag about how
their son or daughter flies jets. Does that count as self-funded?

These pay-to-fly programs are booming in my current neck of the
woods. I've met a few of these pilots and almost without exception
they're spoiled European brats.

[crazy horse]

Its usually the individual's parents
that fund these sort of things - all for a chance to brag about how
their son or daughter flies jets. Does that count as self-funded?

This is happening elsewhere too. In Formula 1 there are many pay drivers now. Rich parents are buying drives while top drivers sit out.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Someone told me Lion Air in Indonesia does the same......

[sstaurus]

I have to give people in Canada the benefit of the doubt here. There can't be nearly enough teens with dumb rich parents around to support this, and any normal person down here on earth would balk at it.

I feel like sending some fake resumes complete with photos...

[Eric Janson]

There are plenty of these kind of advertisements - all Indian companies.

They are targeting unemployed Indian CPL Holders - all "Jobs" are pay up front.

Most of these are scams - steer clear!

[Bede]

These programs are great for separating stupid people from their money.

[MrWings]

I have to give people in Canada the benefit of the doubt here. There can't be nearly enough teens with dumb rich parents around to support this, and any normal person down here on earth would balk at it.

So lets say an airline in Canada tries this and no one bites. What stops them from going to the government claiming a lack of skilled workers and then bringing in forgein workers?

That is essentially what is happening in other industries when locals balk at low wages.

[ajet32]

LionAir Indonesia does this program as well. You pay Approximately $50,000 for a B737NG type rating and then another $50,000 for 500 hours line training. Following this a permanent job is offered as a B737NG FO. There are plenty of Europeans doing this as well as Indians. I have talked to several and their justification is simple there are no or nearly no General Aviation jobs, no float flying or ramp positions leading to right seat positions in their countries.This the only way to A) Build time B) get a flying job. Some certainly don't succeed some do very well.
I met a Dutch national just hired by the Flag carrier of Indonesia who had completed his 2 year contract at LionAir and was the first expat hired as an FO onto the B737NG fleet. Like many Europeans they look at buying the type rating as part of the training package and once completed off they go to a flying job on the B737,A320 etc with 250 hours.
The Indonesian regulator DGCA has stipulated you must have 250 hours on type if an expat in order to fly in Indonesia. How long this new rule will last when the deliveries start remains to be seen. LionAir has somewhere in the order of 330 aircraft on order and they just took delivery of their 100th B737.
This is the way of the future outside Canada and the US with the exception of the major national carriers and their cadet programs.

Not agreeing just pointing out something I have seen over the last year or so flying in Asia with a National Flag carrier.

[Brown Bear]

I have to give people in Canada the benefit of the doubt here. There can't be nearly enough teens with dumb rich parents around to support this, and any normal person down here on earth would balk at it.

So lets say an airline in Canada tries this and no one bites. What stops them from going to the government claiming a lack of skilled workers and then bringing in forgein workers?

That is essentially what is happening in other industries when locals balk at low wages.

Well MrWings, the very sad TRUTH of the matter is, that this WOULD work right here in Canada! If you think it wouldn't, you've had way too many Captain and Cokes!
Our young pilots would be lined up around the block, mommy and daddy's money in hand, ready and willing to sign up!

[sstaurus]

I have to give people in Canada the benefit of the doubt here. There can't be nearly enough teens with dumb rich parents around to support this, and any normal person down here on earth would balk at it.

So lets say an airline in Canada tries this and no one bites. What stops them from going to the government claiming a lack of skilled workers and then bringing in forgein workers?

That is essentially what is happening in other industries when locals balk at low wages.

Well MrWings, the very sad TRUTH of the matter is, that this WOULD work right here in Canada! If you think it wouldn't, you've had way too many Captain and Cokes!
Our young pilots would be lined up around the block, mommy and daddy's money in hand, ready and willing to sign up!

In all seriousness though, maybe the young pilots on this board have had enough of being painted with wide brushes.

[Brown Bear]

sstaurus, you're saying it couldn't happen here? I'm saying, not only that it could, but that it very likely will. Wide brush? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Only time will tell.

[Beefitarian]

I feel like sending some fake resumes complete with photos...

I might be into that.

One time I spent what seemed like an hour on the phone with a credit card company who phoned me and claimed I was "pre approved" for a card. At the end of the application process, I refused to give them my social insurance number. Guess they did not actually want to lend me money.

[MIQ]

LionAir Indonesia does this program as well. You pay Approximately $50,000 for a B737NG type rating and then another $50,000 for 500 hours line training. Following this a permanent job is offered as a B737NG FO. There are plenty of Europeans doing this as well as Indians.

That's a very good point here. Canada and United States could almost be called an exception. I can see how people here are shocked that young pilots would pay that much money to get a flying job but I would almost say that that's normal in Europe. Most of my pilot friends back home paid 100.000 Euros for their training. Unless you go through a cadet program you will have to pay for most of your training yourself. As for the cadet program I've heard a figure a few years ago, not sure if that's still accurate, but only 7% of all the applicants actually successfully complete the program (that's with Lufthansa). After they complete the three year program the end up waiting up to two years to get a job in the cockpit because there's not enough demand. During my time working the ramp for Lufthansa I've also heard a lot of pilots complaining about the newly grads not wanting to work on an Embraer or RJ so the they rather wait another year to get on an Airbus.
So much for the cadet training. If you're one of the remaining 93% who have to finance your training yourself then you'll have a hard time finding a job after you completed your CPL, no matter if you're willing to pay for the type rating yourself or not. Some of my friends got lucky and 'only' paid for a King Air type rating (three years ago that was 18.000 Euros in Germany), others got hired onto an Airbus or a Boeing and had to pay significantly more. How it usually works though is that your company pays for your training and then subtracts payments afterwards from your pay cheque. So they're basically providing you with a loan. I'm sure what we call a 'training bond' is incorporated into that as well.
Again I don't have any official figures but I would say more than 50% of the pilots flying in Europe today paid most of their line training themselves.

[g5]

The thing that really irritates me is that these ads are listed as 'jobs'.

I work in Europe, never bought a type rating. Our company has a respectable cadet program that puts out top notch pilots who otherwise probably would never had the ability to afford flight training. I'm talking about CPL, ME Ifr and type rating all paid for, plus a job at the end as a bonus.

So there is both ends of the spectrum. I never heard about a cadet program in Canada.

Just sayin'.

[Colonel Sanders]

I never heard about a cadet program in Canada

http://www.airgeorgian.ca/recruitment-p ... ogram.html

http://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comments ... the_right/

Our young pilots would be lined up around the block, mommy and daddy's money in hand, ready and willing to sign up!

Seems so. Funny how they don't read about the NTSB SFO inquest
where it says that these cadet programs are the cause of the problem.

FORBES: What most passengers do not realize is that many of the pilots flying for the airlines today have not come up the ranks the way they did in the past. Many of these pilots do not receive the intense hands-on training in adverse conditions that was also once common for pilots aspiring to fly for the airlines. This is especially true for pilots flying for some foreign airlines that hire non-pilots and train them to fly.

The captain flying the Asiana Airlines flight that crashed in San Francisco in July told accident investigators the (visual) approach for landing (in perfect wx) was "very stressful"

It's funny how everyone wants to become a future problem.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, the FAA has tossed all this
multi-crew / cadet stuff in the trash, and is requiring all pilots
for FAR part 121 to have an ATP.

[frozen solid]

sstaurus, you're saying it couldn't happen here? I'm saying, not only that it could, but that it very likely will. Wide brush? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Only time will tell.

I'M saying it wouldn't happen here. Whose Mommy and Daddy have $170,000 to shell out? Nobody I know. I guess pilot's kids aren't going to be the next generation of pilots. Sad, really.

Oh, I'm figuring $50,000 for the type rating and &50,000 for the 250 hours, plus about $70,000 for the flight training needed to even get to that point, depending where you go of course. Well, add also say another 15 or $20,000 for rent and food during that time as well.

I don't know who the next generation of aeroplane pilots will be, but I'll bet they have very nice shoes. Maybe even fuzzy plaid cowboy boots with tassels. Anything's possible!