TC Logbook Certification

[Condorito]

Im looking into jobs overseas, and many require the Aeronautical Authority (Transport Canada in my case) to certify my logbook. I was told from other pilots that TC does not certify logbooks (I have not yet checked with them to verify this information)

Anyone have any similar experience on this subject? I will ofcourse contact them when I get back to Canada.

Thanks!

[Schooner69A]

It's been a long time since I was in TC, but I'm thinking that there is not much they can do... To what would they be attesting? That the logbook is yours? That you have actually flown the times entered therein?

I suppose a statement such as "The logbook has been reviewed and supports the Canadian licences held by XXXXXXX" could suffice.

(Edited after noting you were not in country)

Good idea to contact TC when you get home. You might also contact the civil aviation authority where you intend to work and ask what sort of wording they are looking for.

Good luck

John

[turbo-prop]

Normally you have the company you are/were working for to certify your logbook before you leave.

[Condorito]

Thanks for the replies. The reason for the TC certification and not the company you worked for certification is mostly for licence converting. They want the Aeronautical Authority to validate it, not a company.

I will check with TC when I get back.

Cheers

[Colonel Sanders]

I don't understand how TC could possibly certify
a pilot's logbook. Without access to aircraft or
company records, any certification would be
baseless and therefore fraudulent.

This is why only a CFI, CP or aircraft owner (etc)
can certify a pilot's logbook - they are in a position
to verify it's contents, against the records for
the aircraft (journey logs, DFS, etc).

TC can really only provide a verification of your
pilot's licence, which they issued. They routinely
perform this function at the FAA's request, when
Canadian pilots are acquiring an FAA pilot certificate
based on their Canadian pilot licence.

TC did not participate in any way in your flying of
an aircraft. They have no knowledge of the correctness
of your logbook, except via the certifications described
above.

I suppose you could ask NavCan for a report generation
of flight plans that you have filed (as PIC) but the best
of British Luck with that.

[photofly]

I've never understood the point of getting a logbook certified. If I'm dishonest enough to fake my logbook, why would I not also be dishonest enough to fake the certification too?

[Colonel Sanders]

I know. Who audits the auditors? And who audits
the people who audits the auditors?

As SSU has pointed out, you don't need to turn a
prop. All you need to do is make entries in the
journey log.

It's funny, in the old days, people would NOT make
entries in the journey log, to reduce engine and airframe
times. TC really got their knickers in a twist about
that. I always found it suspicious that an aircraft with
say 1700 in the logs had 2500 on the recording
tachometer. Hmm.

People try to eliminate it, but there's an awful lot
of trust in aviation.

We trust that the parts are what they are represented to be.

We trust that the maintenance was actually performed as
described.

We trust that pilots are going to fly their clearances.

We trust that ATC is going to give us good vectors.

We trust that the navaids will work as advertised.

There's a lot of trust in aviation, which you can try to
get rid of, but ...

[co-joe]

If they signed off your ATPL then they signed off on the hours in your log book right? From then on bring on the P-51 time I guess?

[Colonel Sanders]

Your integrity is worth what you think it is.

[AirFrame]

This is why I always laugh at people when they go nuts if they see me use white-out in my logbook. I could just as easily fake entries directly, with no whiteout, as I could by using whiteout. It's an arbitrary rule.

[Colonel Sanders]

Is there a reg that says you can't use whiteout
in a personal log?

605.93 is for aircraft logs only.

FWIW I use whiteout all the time when I make
a mistake in a personal log - generally I enter
the time in the wrong column.

[AirFrame]

I wasn't making a distinction, I've used whiteout in both. Just to do the same thing you do, ie. correct a typo. If you're not whiting out whole blocks of entries, I have a hard time believing that this is really an issue. I want my logs to look tidy, and don't like scratching out one- or two-digit errors.

[photofly]

Evidence in court usually has to be delivered in person, and subject to cross-examination. However where the law requires a written record of something to be kept, that written record is held to be evidence of what it records, in the absence of evidence to the contrary. The Aeronautics Act s.28 makes that explicit in this scenario.

That is, if for some reason you needed to prove that you made a particular flight on a particular day but couldn't remember having made the flight to give testimony of it, the record of it in, say, the aircraft journey log - which record being required in law to be kept - would stand as evidence of the flight in its own right.

If the log has been altered, for instance with whiteout, that allows the credibility of that entry to be called into question. If the original entry is still legible however it goes towards supporting the credibility of the amended entry.

As far as a personal flight log goes, it's arguable that such a log is not required to be kept by law. But one suspects similar principles would apply.

Note that where records are required to be kept, credibility trumps neatness.

[glass1/2full]

It's a validation letter from the TC.
You go in and ask for a License validation, Pay the $35.00 fee, and they tell you when to pick it up.
In some cases they might be able to give you the letter same day.
Most operator overseas require some sort of Validation besides your actual booklet.

As mentioned mostly for license conversion overseas they require this letter.

[AirFrame]

That is, if for some reason you needed to prove that you made a particular flight on a particular day but couldn't remember having made the flight to give testimony of it, the record of it in, say, the aircraft journey log - which record being required in law to be kept - would stand as evidence of the flight in its own right.

Correct. However, considering all of the other evidence available to the average pilot these days (flight logs as recorded by the panel-mount GPS, the aviation mapping program in your smartphone, your SPOT track) and evidence available with a small amount of effort (cell phone records, area surveillance cameras at departure/destination aerodromes and any place you may have been nearby), I think correcting the .8 that should be a .6 in the Air time entry, and moving the .8 to the Flight time entry, would be overlooked pretty quick.

Never mind that if I really wanted to falsify something that badly, I could rewrite the entire logbook by hand into a new book. There are so many ways that you can work around the whiteout limitation that having the limitation is just silly.

I considered using one of the Pilot Frixxion pens to keep my logs... It's an ink pen, but it's erasable through friction... Each pen comes with a rubber-like eraser that when rubbed over the paper raises the temperature enough that it causes the ink to turn clear. No whiteout! But in the event of a fire, even if you save the logbooks the heat may blank them out... Could be good *or* bad, depending on how much you've falsified. ;P I wanted more permanent (and tidy) records, so I use whiteout. Sparingly, I may add. And I keep a digital log anyway, which I consider more durable even though it's more editable.

[Colonel Sanders]

[Pop n Fresh]

I use correction fluid if I wrote one incorrect number or placed a correct number in the wrong column.

Once the correction is made the number even if written on correction fluid fits into the continuity of the rest of the book. Correction fluid over a number that should not have been in a column and does not alter the totals still looks correct but much neater than if it's left there with a line through it, followed by the correct number written elsewhere. Or worse the correct number has to now go in the wrong column with an arrow indicating it should be where the incorrect number with the line through it is.

There are totals at the top and bottom of the page. If both the entry ant the total needed to be corrected you would be better off striking them so a person reading it could understand why it was corrected.

In a Journey log I strike the error out and possibly start an entire new entry if there is not enough space to place the correct information due to the error being left in place.

If a log were falsified it would have no relation to whether or not a single number was removed or even changed. Wouldn't a person adding time (maybe there is another reason to falsify your log, none I can think of) just write the larger or extra numbers in. That record then may or may not be recorded elsewhere, either in FTU records and/or Airplane Journey logs.

The point for me to get my logbook stamped and signed as correct by the FTU I rent from is to state that the totals are correct to that date. It would be pretty difficult to then alter it in any significant way without painting over all the entries page after page.

At that point yeah, pretty easy to notice something's up. Even if you were a whiteout ninja.

[Colonel Sanders]

a whiteout ninja

Decades ago, a bunch of us were writing a new operating
system, and the guy who wrote the "fdisk" utility, which
is used to partition your hard disk, got a little punchy after
too many months of not enough sleep.

See, fdisk can totally erase the partition table by simply
getting rid of the 55AA at the end of the first sector, which
sounds trivial enough, but results in loss of all data, so it's
not something you want to do without a lot of thought.

So he had a bunch of double-negative questions which
were sure to trip you up the first time you did it, and the
third and final confirmation question was:

"Ninja owns the night. Are you truly Ninja? [N]"

It seemed funny at the time. He caught hell for it.

Kind of like the NTSB intern that supplied the names
of the Asiana crew to the media. Upper management
seems to rarely have a good sense of humour.

[Pop n Fresh]

When they phoned to get confirmation that NTSB intern must have thought. Yeah right, this prank call is not even imaginative. Might as well play along.

"Oh yes. Those are the correct names sir. Thank you for calling."
~hangs up phone~ Hey man you gotta hear what someone claiming to be from a news station just asked me...

Also, I hate to post on track but, I just looked through my log book and the pages where I used a line are a huge embarrassing mess. The ones with a little correction fluid look nice and tidy and make total sense.

[Panama Jack]

Condorito,

As far as I know, TC does not do this, unlike like some Latin authorities (ie DGAC México) because their license revalidation processes are different too. Even in countries where they state that they "require" this, I have never found it to be a barrier.

Normally logbook certifications of times correct by your previous employers are sufficient as most foreign authorities/companies are familiar with Transport Canada not doing this.

As far as the Transport Canada letter verifying the validity of your licenses; I have gotten them always at no cost through my Regional Office at no cost (as recently as last Spring).

[Student_Pilot]

Hi,

What should I do?

One of the school owners can enter the hours without flying them. As long as you pay the owner, you don't need to fly for hours. I heard about falsifying entries, but how serious can that be? Thanks!

[Chaxterium]

Falsifying entries is a very big deal. Don't do it.

But what exactly are you asking?

[CaptDukeNukem]

Hi,

What should I do?

One of the school owners can enter the hours without flying them. As long as you pay the owner, you don't need to fly for hours. I heard about falsifying entries, but how serious can that be? Thanks!

I’ll sell you 4000 hours for $100k. Post your credit card information on here.

[Blackdog0301]

Hi,

What should I do?

One of the school owners can enter the hours without flying them. As long as you pay the owner, you don't need to fly for hours. I heard about falsifying entries, but how serious can that be? Thanks!

I’ll sell you 4000 hours for $100k. Post your credit card information on here.

I'll give you 5000 hours for 100k.