Temporary foreign pilots in 2013

[Colonel Sanders]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/pol ... e18119462/

the number of foreign workers in the “accommodation and food services” sector has grown from 4,360 in 2006 to 44,740, an increase of 926 per cent. The actual number of foreign workers in that category is likely higher because the statistic captures only people working under a federal Labour Market Opinion (LMO), a process meant to ensure that no Canadian workers were available.

More than 200,000 workers were brought in through LMOs in 2012, but data from Citizenship and Immigration show 491,547 temporary foreign workers either entered Canada or were still present in Canada that year.

reports from workers affected by the program claim some employers are abusing the system, squeezing out Canadians in favour of more compliant foreign workers who depend on their boss to remain in Canada.

Mr. Kenney hinted last week that he may be open to barring the urban fast-food sector from the program, comments that did not sit well with the industry.

“I agree that’s a very good issue that our officials need to look at,” Mr. Kenney said last week during an interview with CBC Radio One’s B.C. station. “I am skeptical that food-service jobs in urban areas with still relatively high unemployment need to use this program.”

[Gilles Hudicourt]

I'm surprised the commercial helicopter pilots in Canada do not make a fuss over TFW helicopter pilots. I've discovered that many Canadian Helicopter Operators make use of Foreign helicopter pilots every summer, claiming there are no qualified Canadian Helicopter pilots..........

People, if you sit back and stay silent in the fear that potential employers will blacklist you, you will be blacklisted anyway, for the "qualified" foreign helicopter pilots will take all the jobs away from you.......

Here is the letter that the Helicopter Association of Canada wrote to the Immigration Minister less than one year ago:

http://www.h-a-c.ca/Honourable_Jason_Kenny.pdf

The Canadian helicopter industry depends on highly skilled seasonal foreign workers to supplement the growing shortage of experienced helicopter pilots in Canada.

This is B/S and you all know it.

But this is no longer my fight. I have already given too much of my time. Are Canadian helicopter pilots going to accept this ?

These are their jobs, in their country. These jobs require a Canadian Pilots licence. Not a Foreign Licence Validation Certificate. It says so here in the Canadian Aviation Regulations:

Flight Crew Member Qualifications

702.65 No air operator shall permit a person to act and no person shall act as a flight crew member in an aircraft unless the person
(a) holds the licence and ratings required by Part IV or, where the air operator is the holder of an air operator certificate issued in accordance with the North American Free Trade Agreement, the equivalent foreign licence and ratings;

This means that if the pilot is working for a Canadian Operator flying under Part 702, the pilot must have a Canadian Licence issued under Part IV of the CAR. Transport Canada claims that a FLVC is the equivalent of a licence issued under Part IV but that is false. No aviation law firm I have heard from agree with that interpretation and the few Transport Canada Inspectors who were free to express themselves on the subject that I was able to communicate with agreed with that either.

To fly revenue flights under 702 you need a Canadian commercial or ATPL.

The Standard 421.07 list the purposes for which an FLVC may be issued to a Foreign Licenced pilot.
a) to undergo a flight test
b) recreational flying
c) to ferry a Canadian registered aircraft from or to Canada
d) for the foreigner to give flight training to a Canadian
e) for the foreigner to receive flight training from a Canadian
f) for operation of a foreign registered aircraft aircraft overseas under a Canadian OC.
g) for operation of Canadian aircraft in urgent circumstances like fires, floods, emergency airlift, floods etc
h) for operation of Canadian registered aircraft entirely overseas
i) for the Operation of aircraft registered in Canada but under a foreign OC
j) for reasons other than the above if in the public interest and not likely to affect public safety.

J) is the clause abused by the Minister to allow those foreign licensed pilots to fly in Canada. I must specify that the French version of 421.07 j) also states that this clause can only be used in exceptional circumstances. Lawyers I consulted, individingl the ALPA all state that when the translation of the English and French versions of the CARs do not match, both apply as long as they are do in direct contradiction to each other. So 421.07(j) can only be used in exceptional circumstances.

I sent a ATIP to Transport Canada to ask how many FLVCs were issued to foreign helicopter pilots to fly commercially in Canada under Part 702. They sent me a bill of several thousand dollars to release that information. They obviously do not want me to know......


If a Foreign Operator from a NAFTA member country (USA and Mexico), flying in Canada under the NAFTA agreement and flying for his own NAFTA foreign employer and under the Foreign NAFTA certificate, then that pilot can fly in Canada with his foreign licence. He cannot do so while flying an aircraft flown under a Canadian Certificate.

[dstechnical]

there is absolutely no shortage of pilots in Canada. What we have is a lack of compulsory training in Canada so our Canadian pilots can qualify for a job. every foreign pilot who takes a job in Canada relieves the industry of the obligation to train a Canadian pilot. Ifind it quite unbelievable that Wood buffalo cannot find a canadian helicoptger pilot with 1000hrs turbine, to work in Ft. Mac. I doubt you need a 1000hrs to fly around ft. Mac. We have canadian flight schools turning out hundreds of commercial pilots every year, who will never find a job. Yet we are constantly bringing in Aussies and kiwwis who just fly here for the season and go home. Canadian tax dollars subsidize all the flight training in Canada thru tax credits, etc. There should be an obligation to get these kids working so we can get this money back through taxes.

there also needs to be something done about foreign students coming here to train and when they tgey finish they get a one year work visa. If they get a job, they get an extension and on it goes.

[Keenflyer]

So some of you suggest all the Canadian pilots who go to Australia for the Summer should not be allowed to go?

[Gilles Hudicourt]

This is the argument Sunwing was using in 2011, that the foreign pilots were coming in a reciprocity deal with Europe. It turned out that about 45 Canadians were going to Europe for Sunwing for the summer and in "reciprocity" 180 European pilots were coming to Canada for the winter to work for Sunwing. Some reciprocity! It was just a smokescreen to cover up what was really going on.

So unless you have details and figures, a vague statement like the one you just made will not hold much water with me........

You state that Canadian pilots go to Australia every summer ? News to me. Who goes there, how many go there, why do they go there, whom do they fly for ? What need does Australia have of Canadian pilots during our summer (their winter) ?

[timel]

Pilots should boycott Sunwing, they'll never get a resume from me and screw them for lowering Canadian standards including F/A...

Know what half the pilots I speak to want to get 737 rating with sunwing : "ain't that bad"

Huh wait .. Pilot solidarity?? Pfff

[fruz]

Pilots should boycott Sunwing, they'll never get a resume from me and screw them for lowering Canadian standards including F/A...

Know what half the pilots I speak to want to get 737 rating with sunwing : "ain't that bad"

Huh wait .. Pilot solidarity?? Pfff

Why should pilots boycott Sunwing? What would that achieve? The key here is to attain equal reciprocity between them and their European counterparts no? If people don't apply for a job there, they'll look elsewhere for pilots.

Please explain to me how Sunwing has lowered the “Canadian standards” too? Are you referring to reducing the amount of FA’s on board?

[timel]

Pilots should boycott Sunwing, they'll never get a resume from me and screw them for lowering Canadian standards including F/A...

Know what half the pilots I speak to want to get 737 rating with sunwing : "ain't that bad"

Huh wait .. Pilot solidarity?? Pfff

Why should pilots boycott Sunwing? What would that achieve? The key here is to attain equal reciprocity between them and their European counterparts no? If people don't apply for a job there, they'll look elsewhere for pilots.

Please explain to me how Sunwing has lowered the “Canadian standards” too? Are you referring to reducing the amount of FA’s on board?

Now it is equity in european pilots versus canadian pilots?
Funny how debates evolves with time and in which direction.

Where is Canadian pilot shortages? There are none.
Foreign workers are accepted if there are needs, like in agriculture where no Canadians want to work anymore. Pilots? There are quite a few.

Gouvernement should get involved in that and protect Canadian jobs, but politicos don't care. I would also agree in getting European politician and exchange those we have for half the price with have to pay.

Sunwing forced companies such as Air Transat to lower their stardards (pays -15k for entry copi) + FA pays from what I heard, because sunwing would come from Europe with:

- Already trained crew (no pilot trainings to pay)
- Rented east european 737 with their original immatriculation and flying out of Canada with that, airplanes they can get rid of at any time they want, at prices Canadian market can't afford.
- Sunwing FA would get training in a gymnasium from what I heard

For sure their plane tickets are cheaper.

I mean why doesn't Aircan, Transat, WJ don't get European pilots and european airplanes? Where's the stopping point?
European won't let Canadian pilot come and steal their jobs. You can be sure about that.

[BE20 Driver]

This issue keeps resurfacing every six months or so. That might be good for this industry. McDonalds used to be the company that gave a good portion of the Canadian population their start in the work force. Airlines used to be the place where we could hang our hats after putting up with so many shady companies. McDonalds is getting a lot of press right now - so much so that the government has suspended all TFW's in the urban fast food industry.

While our fight isn't exactly the same as Noregion (yet); if we do nothing, life goes on as it always has. ALPA in Canada says they're working in the background so we don't have any sort of national petition. I would suggest writing to Minister Jason Kenny and your local MP. I think getting some press would also be helpful. Judging from the words of McDonalds Canada CEO I doubt they would be moving as quickly, if at all, had there not been some attention from CBC GoPublic
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/mcdonald- ... -1.2621151

[cdnpilot77]

http://news.ca.msn.com/local/saskatchew ... s-report-2

The last line:

"Employers thus should regard such foreign workers as available only for a short period, and not attempt to use the program as a way to circumvent the search for and hiring of domestic workers."

[fruz]

Pilots should boycott Sunwing, they'll never get a resume from me and screw them for lowering Canadian standards including F/A...

Know what half the pilots I speak to want to get 737 rating with sunwing : "ain't that bad"

Huh wait .. Pilot solidarity?? Pfff

Why should pilots boycott Sunwing? What would that achieve? The key here is to attain equal reciprocity between them and their European counterparts no? If people don't apply for a job there, they'll look elsewhere for pilots.

Please explain to me how Sunwing has lowered the “Canadian standards” too? Are you referring to reducing the amount of FA’s on board?

Now it is equity in european pilots versus canadian pilots?
Funny how debates evolves with time and in which direction.

I'm only reiterating what I've read via Gille's post over the last year or so. In the past he's stated that the goal was one for one reciprocity - not elimination. Perhaps thats changed but I know's he's mentioned it in the past. Make it equal. I'm not suggesting that there is any shortfall in viable pilots with in Canada, quite the contrary.

Sunwing clearly has a business model that is only feasible during the peak travel season. While their European counterparts require additional crews in their peak travel season which, just happens to be the opposite from North America's. Therefore, the need for extra crew is equal on both sides of the pond, which means it should be equal. This would keep Canadian's employed at Sunwing year round versus seasonal layoffs. No one wants to see anyone get furloughed.

[ragbagflyer]

Sent an email to the College of Professional Pilots asking if they have taken a stance on this issue. I'll be sending a letter to Minister Kenney and my MP as well. I encourage the rest of you to do the same because simply ranting on Avcanada will very little if the discussion doesn't get beyond this website. There's an opportunity to gain some traction here if the pilot's side of the aviation industry speaks with a united voice. Let's use the current news cycle to our advantage.

[timel]

I find it frustrating, but contacted college of pilots in the past and they only seem to be interrested in transport canada issues, safety and other vague stuffs. Actualy I don't see the point of it.


They do not want to have anything to do with work conditions and disputes or won't take position in any situations, it should be their main concerns or at least set standards of work and make recommandations to their members in accepting or not certain positions.

I might re-write to them once again, who knows.

You can contact them through this link:
http://www.collegeofpilots.ca/contact/

[BE20 Driver]

Stay with the College. Weren't they the ones that said they wanted to come into existence and then have us tell them what we wanted them to do for us? Much like the government, if enough of their dues paying constituents keep pressing their feet to the fire, they may take a stance on this issue.

This is a statement from the CBC article where McDonald's CEO calls the TFW controversy bull sh*t (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... -1.2621151)

The federal government says it wants to hear from any other employee or job applicant from any McDonald's or other workplace nationwide who feels they have been negatively affected by the Temporary Foreign Worker Program.

Kenney's office provided the following phone number and email address for confidential tips:
Phone: 1-800-367-5693
Email: integrity@servicecanada.gc.ca

[Gilles Hudicourt]

I'm only reiterating what I've read via Gille's post over the year or so. In the past he's stated that the goal was one for one reciprocity - not elimination. Perhaps thats changed but I know's he's mentioned it in the past. Make it equal. I'm not suggesting that there is any shortfall in viable pilots with in Canada, quite the contrary.

Sunwing clearly has a business model that is only feasible during the peak travel season. While their European counterparts require additional crews in their peak travel season which, just happens to be the opposite from North America's. Therefore, the need for extra crew is equal on both sides of the pond, which means it should be equal. This would keep Canadian's employed at Sunwing year round versus seasonal layoffs. No one wants to see anyone get furloughed.

In theory reciprocity is good. In practice, it cannot be done with European airlines. EASA regulations no longer allow foreign licensed pilots to fly European registered aircraft commercially under a European certificate. The Canadian Aviation Regulations have never allowed foreign licensed pilots to do revenues flights in Canada under Part VII. Under pressure from the industry which was pursuing reciprocal agreements with European airlines for swapping pilots in the early 2000s, Transport Canada twisted the intepretation of its CARs in order to allow British pilots to fly for Skyservice. In exchange, Canadian pilots were going to the UK in the summer to fly for UK carriers. The exchanges were one to one and were counted to the exact hour of flight.
However, at a point in time EASA came into force and no longer allowed the practice of allowing foreign licensed pilots to fly for European airlines. Canadian companies circumvented the new European laws by sending Canadian wet leases to Europe instead. So the Canadian pilots that went overseas did not need European licenses for they flew their own aircraft under their own OC.

So for some years European pilots were coming to Canada to fly Canadian registered jets with their European licences and in exchange, Canada sent wet leases to Europe and Canadian flew their own aircraft in Europe. We might have looked the other way had Sunwing not become too greedy and imported in 2011-2012 four to five times more foreign pilots than they sent to Europe.

Then in 2012 EASA again modified its rules and required that even foreign pilots who flew foreign registered aircraft based and flying inside Europe have a European licence. Sunwing was able to obtain a temporary waiver, claiming doom and gloom if it were not issued. In the summer of 2014 however, they were to have European licences for all Canadian pilots deploying to Europe. Then they secured another waiver where they would only need an EASA medical for 2014 and an EASA licence for the summer 2015.

In the meantime, Transport Canada, oblivious to the new restrictions imposed on Canadian pilots by European regulators, was still illegally issuing FLVCs to European pilots in order to accomodate the so called "reciprocity" that the Europeans had ceased to allow years ago.

Are we an independent country or are we still a British colony ?

[jpilot77]

Timel said

Foreign workers are accepted if there are needs, like in agriculture where no Canadians want to work anymore.

They don't want to work in agriculture for the salaries being offered. Salaries have to increase to attract workers, but it's hard to raise wages when employers can do an end run around this by bringing in cheaper foreign workers.

[ahramin]

Exactly. Was just listening to a fast food industry spokesperson on Thursday trying to frame unemployement as a problem of people who choose not to work. I've seen Tim Hortons in Grande Prairie paying $15 an hour, because that's what they had to do to get people working there. And it worked. But you aren't going to have wages rise to meet demand when you can simply claim no one wants the job and bring in Temporary Foreign Workers. The program makes sense for the purpose it was designed for: No Canadians available. It does not make sense when it gets hijacked by companies looking to lower wages.

[Casper2012]

Rex Murphy on CBC today, subject; FOREIGN WORKERS! OK, here is you chance folks, you can read all the posts on Av Canada along with the regulations being ignored by Lisa Rait, so now is the time to put up or shut up, the phone calls are free so even a Porter/ Sky Regional pilot can afford to make a call!

[Gilles Hudicourt]

http://www.cbc.ca/checkup/mobile/touch/airtimes/

1 888 416 8333

They picked up the phone but did not put me on air......

[ragbagflyer]

I got through and gave a quick summary of the hiring of foreign helicopter pilots. Hopefully I get a call-back.