Mo' Money?

twinpratts · Post by **twinpratts** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:21 pm

Anyone confirm if Wjet is upping the payscale in Sept?

Flightlevels · Post by **Flightlevels** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:36 pm

no, the fall is when the company is sitting down with the pilot negotiation team. The current agreement runs out in Feb. I think you will see about a 18% raise to base...just a guess, but that will cover the increase in cost of living as a start. sounds good to me.

Blastor · Post by **Blastor** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:16 am

WestJet Airlines to sell off its last remaining 10 older Boeing 737-200s

WestJet Airlines to sell off its last remaining 10 older Boeing 737-200s

James Stevenson Canadian Press

July 13, 2005

CALGARY (CP) - WestJet Airlines Ltd. will move ahead with plans to retire its 10 remaining Boeing 737-200 jets by selling the older aircraft as well as related spare parts, engines and a flight simulator to Miami-based Apollo Aviation Group.

While financial terms of the transaction weren't announced Tuesday, WestJet spokeswoman Gillian Bentley said the sale would be a "break-even situation" for the Calgary-based airline.

The 10 remaining older planes will be replaced by next-generation Boeing 737 aircraft by next March.

The newer airplanes are 30 per cent more fuel efficient, require far less maintenance and fly 12 hours per day on average versus eight hours for the older fleet.

In February, WestJet took a one-time charge of $47.6 million in order to speed up retirement of the older, costlier jets and replace them with newer models.

One month later, following the sudden demise of discount rival Jetsgo, WestJet chief executive Clive Beddoe said his airline would slow down the planned aircraft retirement in order to dramatically boost capacity.

"I think what's happened is we've decided to go ahead and just retire them on schedule," Bentley said Tuesday.

Independent airline analyst Rick Erickson said Tuesday that WestJet's plans to capitalize on Jetsgo's collapse didn't come to fruition.

"I don't think the traffic materialized," Erickson said from Calgary. "I think the bulk of that traffic went to Air Canada, because Jetsgo was based in the East and they were very significant players there and. . . they didn't have lots of western-originating traffic."

As a result, Erickson said WestJet is being "very prudent" in getting rid of the older planes during these times of sustained, near record-high oil prices.

Erickson said he expected WestJet would be able to get very little "residual value" out of its older fleet and likely was just happy to get rid of them.

"If somebody came along and wanted to take all 10 and the simulator and the parts and everything else, that's a pretty clean way of just cleaning out shop."

The sale is part of WestJet's transition to a newer model of Boeing 737 jets, which along with better fuel efficiency, are equipped with amenities such as leather seats and live satellite televisions mounted in the seat backs.

WestJet executive vice-president Tim Morgan said in a release that the older 737-200s "were a determining factor in the success of our airline for many years, and helped to establish WestJet as Canada's premier airline for low-fare, high-value service."

The airline will have all 10 of the older aircraft replaced with newer models by next March. Delivery of eight more new aircraft will bring WestJet's total fleet to 62 Boeing 737s by August, 2006.

WestJet flies only Boeing 737s in order to save money on maintenance, parts and training.

Still, high fuel prices and fierce competition have caused WestJet to post two consecutive quarters of losses after eight years of profits as a public company. WestJet is expected to release its second-quarter earnings later this month or early August.

On the Toronto stock market Tuesday, WestJet shares (TSX:WJA) fell five cents to $13.60.

© The Canadian Press 2005

Trevor · Post by **Trevor** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:24 pm

And the sale of our -200s has to do with pilot pay scales how?

NovaBoy · Post by **NovaBoy** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:05 pm

and Westjet shares were up $0.65 today

Flightlevels · Post by **Flightlevels** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:56 pm

nice rise...I unloaded $12000.00 today, don't expect much until the fall in the way of meaningful gains...I think the stock is adjusted already for the poor upcoming results and is now totally tied to the price of oil.

EI-EIO · Post by **EI-EIO** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:09 pm

Ryanair found a buyer for their -200s and they were VERY clapped out.

Blastor · Post by **Blastor** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:00 am

WestJet Airlines WJA-T Last Trade:Jul 15, 2005 12:31 EST
Last: C$ 13.950 Net Change: C$ -0.150 % Change: -1.06%

Can't make it to $15.00 hey!

Flightlevels · Post by **Flightlevels** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:48 am

Blastor wrote:WestJet Airlines WJA-T Last Trade:Jul 15, 2005 12:31 EST
Last: C$ 13.950 Net Change: C$ -0.150 % Change: -1.06%

Can't make it to $15.00 hey!

try figuring the stock price with the past 2 splits over the last 4 yrs...hint...it is well above $15...and that how old some of the stock is that was sold.lol. nice try...kid.

Arthur Q · Post by **Arthur Q** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:25 am

So who would buy the simulator... Canadian North, First Air or maybe Canjet?

giligan · Post by **giligan** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:23 pm

Some questions for the likes of flightlevels, Novaboy and WS700.

1. As stated before, the pilot contract expires in February with an expected 18% increase. Is it just the Pilots contract and how many pilots are there.

Example:As I understand it approx 650. Lets just take the fo's (325) with a starting salary of 40k x 1.18% = 47,200. 325 pilots (at base pay) is 2.34 million increase. For Captains (again all at a current base salary of 80k) the increase is 4.68 million for a low ball total of just over 7 million dollars.

This is good for the paycheck but can the company do it. Is 18% reasonable? If not, what is.

2. Hawaii. Can it be done in a '37. I've heard of other airlines making tech stops in SFO for fuel. Which aircraft has more range. The 700 or 800 and do the WJ 700's have the increase gross, (I believe it depends on installation of additional fuel tanks.) and therefore better range? Can one get the upgross without the mod and would it be a factor for a decreased payload or an increase in zero fuel weight .

3. The Charter market. As I understand WJ is expecting a 30% increase. I've heard rumors of larger aircraft ie 767/757 for use in the charter market. If this isn't just a rumor is it a wet lease or a possible new aircraft type? Does announcing Hawaii affect this situation?

Thank you.
Giligan

WJflyer · Post by **WJflyer** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:10 pm

I am starting to think that Westjet could really use some 737-900's and 900ER's... they have the range to do Hawaii, and will be great for charter ops as well, due to their capacity...

Flightlevels · Post by **Flightlevels** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:37 pm

From what I'm hearing the 700-800 is a short term thing(stretched to the limit with etops and we have already up grossed em) we have been offered 12 7E7 in 2009 by boeing (through some leasing company). The board will make a decision soon. This will be the replacement for longhaul. I know it is more than just a rumour at the executive level. Don Bell was even saying that at the last crew chat something about 2009. But they are still alittle on the fence according to top guys in flt ops. Not sure about the pay question but an independant source is looking into what we are asking for and will give a good opinion if the company can do it....we don't want to hurt the company.

Ryan Coke · Post by **Ryan Coke** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 9:20 pm

For what it is worth (not much),

1) Pilots contract--who knows--looking for a 'fair' increase (whatever fair is considered to be), but of course as you know our overall compensation is aligned with the success of the company, so it would just be shooting ourselves in the foot to increase base pay at the expense of company profitability. Vague enough?

2) The -700 has slightly better range, but we will be doing it in the -800. There may be a small cap restriction on the outbound (156-160 on a 166 seat plane), depending on winds. But to answer your question, yes it can be done.

3) Previous answer better than anything I have, but I would add that the -900 probably isn't a great fit as it actually has lower range than the rest (600-700-800). The ER model only brings it up to being close to the others. A more likely bet is a -700 variant based on the BBJ that Boeing is considering--it has significant extra range. That would allow Hawaii from a few other places, but still not anything earthshattering. Now 787's would open up some new route opportunities, but obviously it is a big step if we do that.

giligan · Post by **giligan** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 9:54 pm

Thanks for the info.

Regarding salary, I imagine compaines like Cathay will drive up the salaries in Canada. With oil prices where they are it seems that profits will suffer regardless of operating costs and hence lower income, but like you say, no one wants to shoot themselves in the foot. Are the days of profit sharing gone? Good luck in Feb. We'll see what happens.

I was looking at the Boeing Website. There seems to be little to no gain with the 900 except cargo capacityand therefore few advantages to the 900. They may as well have saved the 9 feet of aluminum. I didn't find anything on the 900ER though.

737 700 / 737 800 / 737 900

Seating (typical)
1 class 149 / 189 / 189

Fuel Capacity
(USG) 6875 / 6875 / 6875

Range
(Statute Miles) 3752 sm / 3383sm / 3159 sm

Thrust
CFM 56-7B 24,200 lbs / 27,300 lbs / 27,300 lbs

MGTOW 154,500 lbs / 174,200 lbs / 174,200 lbs

Giligan

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:09 am

Aren't the Captains Maxed out???

Year 11 and 12??

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/content/view/105/11/

You have to have maxed out F/O's too, 5yrs to top?

I'm guessing the raise will come for the top tier, and to insure they stick around and don't leave...

I wouldn't think the base would raise(imho)....

Cheaper to lower the mins and lower the wages.

. . · Post by **. .** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:24 am

I personally think they're really gonna have to raise the base to attract QUALITY canidates. With so many other good companies hiring who provide benifits like pension, and international travel passes you'd have to think twice about a WJ for similar money.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:31 am

endless wrote:I personally think they're really gonna have to raise the base to attract QUALITY canidates.

Quality.... I can't remember who, but someone on Pprune was saying how they're "swamped" with over "2000 resumes that meet the 4000TT".

I don't know how much "quality" you could ask for(want) from an FO.

PS. Another guy mentioned that 75 FOs are trying to leave for AC....

PSS. Think they have this thread there too.

PSSS. Think they should look for "loyalty" over "quality."

. . · Post by **. .** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:04 am

there's just under 10,000 atpl's out there in canada according to TC. I think something like 3500 work at AC alone, another 1500ish at jazz. I just can't see there being 2000 guys out there with 4000hrs+ looking to fly for WJ. I'm not saying WJ is a bad place, I know guys there and they love it. More the fact that 2000 folks have their resumes in there? I dunno maybe.

complexintentions · Post by **complexintentions** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:19 am

I'm curious to see how the dynamic of upping pay will work. If it's implemented across the board I can't believe it wouldn't be a. hurtful to the company or, b. too small to be noticeable. With fuel costs skyrocketing I would think the push would be in the opposite direction.

If they start getting selective, say, only increasing the max FO pay, etc., then it becomes a situation of very divided interests. For example, if I was a senior captain, why would I want to push for an increased level of pay for a senior FO? Every extra dollar he makes comes out of my profit-share. (Or theoretical profit-share, these days.) Granted the pay would be set by the company but the seeds of dissent are sure there.

And why would only pilots get a raise? I've certainly seen enough examples of FA's who are all, um, empowered and...stuff...making their opinions quite vocal. Why wouldn't they get a raise too? Or would they?

I agree with the suggestion of lower the minimums. Those NG's are a piece of pi$$, and there'll always be a ton of 1500 hr guys who would LOVE to fly one for 25k/yr or whatever. As long as you have a decent skipper you'd be fine...

Curiouser and curiouser...

grammar boy · Post by **grammar boy** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:14 am

cyyz wrote:Aren't the Captains Maxed out???

Year 11 and 12??

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/content/view/105/11/

You have to have maxed out F/O's too, 5yrs to top?

There are a few day oners around, but day one was in 1996, so they are on 9 or 10yr pay.

Next FO to upgrade has just over 2.5 years, upgrades have slowed significantly, and last new hire class was May I think due to the retirement of the -200s and the training dept going full tilt with NG transitions. Boeing strike has delayed the -200s going buh-bye until Dec 1 (lastest unconfirmed rumour).

Everything should ramp up in the new year. I've heard 150-200 new hires next year, with 12 net aircraft gained. Feel free to correct my numbers as they are not "official" just the word on the street.

Flightlevels · Post by **Flightlevels** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:46 pm

Pretty much official...new time requirement of 2500 hrs. ATPL, 1000 multi pic tier 3 or better will score you better....jet time will help you too. Medical coming and a technical exam too along with a phone screen then an interview with One people dept person/management pilot and a committee pilot that flies the line. Big changes all to help the bottom line further down the road. standby for further!

giligan · Post by **giligan** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:41 pm

So are you guys interviewing now or is that still scheduled for November? Will these interviews be in the new format? I understand the course dates will be for the new year. Thanks for all the info, fingers will remain crossed.
Giligan

fanspeed · Post by **fanspeed** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:04 pm

PSSS. Think they should look for "loyalty" over "quality."

yikes

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:26 am

If everyone is making millions with stock options and profit sharing and all that, then why do you guys want an 18% increase in your base?

Mo' Money?

Mo' Money?

No money' till 2006