Malaysia Airlines 777 - Missing

[boeingboy]

To this I ask:

If you believe there was no failure - especially electrical, please explain why the transponder was turned off,
and no contact to ATC was made prior to the change of course.

Also , if the engine ran out of fuel why would the STBY battery, and/or RAT not be able to supply enough
reserve to issue a MAYDAY to ATC?

Perhaps I've missed your stance because I have not read back far enough, so please link me to a post
that explains your position. Thanks.

I assume your asking me.

At this point, after reviewing the facts to date, along with some logic, and basic physics - I personally believe (at this point) it was a situation similar to Ethiopian Airways, only the highjackers weren't dumb kids - they had some knowledge of aircraft systems.

But - there are still problems with all possibilities at this point, so I remain open to most of them. It's just that some - such as a fire or ghost planes - are so remote or have so many issues that they get placed in the relm of near impossibility.

The RAT does not provide electrical power, only hyd pressure. The APU will automaticlly start if both engines flame out - which is probably what accounted for the last half handshake. The lack of mayday is one of the puzzles here. I had concidered the murder/suicide earlier, however only on the basis that someone had a big insurance policy and had fallen on hard times, but if that was the case I would think investigators and the media would have been all over that by now.

[Learning2Fly]

I guess we can agree on some points, however I'm not leaning toward hijack based on the course of events.

On another note, the 777 RAT supplies hydraulics and also provides power (7.5Kva)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfB2EP71hqY

http://books.google.ca/books?id=CILNWqZ ... ne&f=false

I suppose if my theory is based on electrical fire, I must explain how the aircraft flew an additional 7 hours? At this point, I'm not
convinced it flew 7 hours because there is conflicting information.

We have alleged engine data that suggests the engines were operational, yet we have reports that the 777 fell off RADAR just after
the turn (left, or right).

Why did the RADAR track end after the unauthorized turn? Why did the pilot(s) not communicate their turn off course?

Why did the Transponder shut off?

Something happened between the last TX to ATC, and that turn. This is where I put most of my eggs...

Anyway, I'm not going to argue my position because I cannot prove it either way. You may be onto something as well.

As far as the "hijackers", there has been a great deal of discussion of the pictures released to/by the media. Check out
the legs, and bag on the lower half of the photo. Same shoes, foot position, and the left blue shirt from the waist upward
appears to be pasted on



Is there an explanation for this? It really makes it tough to believe!

[Eric Janson]

As far as the "hijackers", there has been a great deal of discussion of the pictures released to/by the media. Check out
the legs, and bag on the lower half of the photo. Same shoes, foot position, and the left blue shirt from the waist upward
appears to be pasted on

Is there an explanation for this? It really makes it tough to believe!

Just more S Asian incompetence - nothing sinister.

This was people smuggling - it has been investigated. It's a non issue. Unrelated.

Here's a link to the Qantas event. Multiple failures due to a single event.

http://avherald.com/h?article=400242b2/0000&opt=0

[boeingboy]

Thanks for the info on the RAT - It says it's the first plane to have a genorater built into the RAT, which is probably why I didn't know that.

The plane disappeared from SECONDARY radar dur to the failure/turning off of the xponder. However - it was picked up on primary radar crossing back to the west and navigating between 3 aviation nav pionts. Then there is the ping data, which is really just the satalite and plane saying hello to each other every hour.

How and why, where and what those pings where calculated is way beyond anything anyone on here understands, but those boys at Imersat have been using some out of the box, groundbreaking thinking to figure out all this stuff. If anyone would have asked anybody in aviation (including Imersat) at the beginning of March "could you track a plane with just ping data?" you would have got a resounding NO.

There are certainly a lot of things that make no sense. I dont know we'll ever know why, but we may find out what happened if the boxes are found.

[Eric Janson]

If you get a chance have a look in your Boeing's E&E compartment.

I have - have you?

Yes - I am familliar with Kapton wiring, wire loom debris, etc...

Again - your talking about a very picky fire. Now go look in your Boeing or Airbus's E&E bay. All your boxes and wiring bundles run in the same area. Now try to imagine a fire only affecting 2 or 3 systems.....

I have been able to access aircraft during heavy maintenance and had colleagues in Engineering show me the various components. Very enlightening and something I would recommend everyone take the time to do.

Regarding an electrical fire - I am not suggesting a picky fire. A wiring loom fire may leave you with a dark cockpit with no indication of what is going on.

I've seen a scenario during my A320 training where a combination failure blanked all 6 displays and left us with a dark cockpit. The only indication about what was going on was 1 fault light illuminated on the overhead panel. Easyjet had something similar happen on an actual flight.

Modern jets can fly without electrics as long as the hydraulics are working. Engines will continue to run as the FADECs have their own alternator.

I hope they find this aircraft and get some answers.

[sidestick stirrer]

The 767's RAT was just a hydraulic pump but it pressurized a system that also could drive a small, 5KVA generator.
So, the 767 was like the 777 in that respect, in that the RAT could both provide hydraulic pressure that was designed to protect pressure for the primary flight controls and a small amount of electricity.

[burhead1]

Disc Channel has "flight 370: The Missing Links"
The information was more to the point, without all the antics of CNN.

[black hole]

I'm a little curious. Has the 777 got a very simple fuel system, like an on-and-off switch for each engine; or has it got a series of tanks that have to be selected? If fuel had to be managed if would suggest some form of controlled flight.


BH

[Lemon]

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/#!/content/1.2613065

Apparently the flight sim instructor who was on CNN during all of this was fired today...

[Prodriver]

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/#!/content/1.2613065

Apparently the flight sim instructor who was on CNN during all of this was fired today...

I agree, that guy looked like a drug dealer, not a pro pilot. Go drive a hotel shuttle bus.

[Illya Kuryakin]

Obviously an alien abduction. Prove it wasn't.
Illya

[CFR]

Obviously an alien abduction. Prove it wasn't.
Illya

God exists - prove he doesn't!

[Gino Under]

Smart Alec...

[Gino Under]

FWIW, the B777 isn't the first aircraft with an ADG electrical generator.

Gino Under

[AirFrame]

God exists - prove he doesn't!

Prove he does!

[Illya Kuryakin]

Obviously an alien abduction. Prove it wasn't.
Illya

God exists - prove he doesn't!

So does the Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny and Santa Claus......among others. LOL
Illya

[trey kule]

I am a bit surprised that people were so quick to judge the knowledge and competency of the 777 sim instructor based on the way he was dressed. You folks have great career potential as HR people.

Some even appear to enjoy mocking him on the job offered sites.

Good to know that clothes trump competency and knowledge.

[goldeneagle]

As far as the "hijackers", there has been a great deal of discussion of the pictures released to/by the media. Check out
the legs, and bag on the lower half of the photo. Same shoes, foot position, and the left blue shirt from the waist upward
appears to be pasted on

That's been well explained. First photo was photocopied. Second photo laid down to photocopy, first was still under it. Top one was smaller.

But, lets not simple factual explanations get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

[Learning2Fly]

As far as the "hijackers", there has been a great deal of discussion of the pictures released to/by the media. Check out
the legs, and bag on the lower half of the photo. Same shoes, foot position, and the left blue shirt from the waist upward
appears to be pasted on

That's been well explained. First photo was photocopied. Second photo laid down to photocopy, first was still under it. Top one was smaller. But, lets not simple factual explanations get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

Simple fact? I asked for an explanation, not some parroted BS from the mass media.

In a modern world, security camera footage is captured with some sort of frame grabbing software, and then sent as a digital file/photo through email. This camera software has the ability to enhance, crop, flip, etc. the images for inspection. Kinda
like Photoshop; most security software does. My home security does this, and the cameras here at work as well.

But, let's assume your answer is correct. Someone from airport security took a screen shot/screen grab of the footage with
their security software of these alleged "hijackers". At some point the images were printed to paper, then hand delivered, or
snail mailed to the news station.

Then someone from the news station photocopied these images, forgetting that the bottom image gets scanned first and puts a bigger image behind it. After that, he/she removes the smaller image from the bottom, then photocopies the bigger image. Seems ass-backwards, and more work to me, but that’s fine.

Then, he/she took that photocopy scanned it AGAIN to a digital format so they could show the world these alleged "hijackers" on Television.

Makes sense...

I thought the investigating team (NTSB, or FBI) would study the footage, figure out if anyone was a suspect, take a screen shot of the suspect(s),
then format it digitally for television. That seems more efficient, quicker, and it would retain the highest image quality…but what do I know?

Oh, and back to the hijacker photos:

Most security systems have stationary cameras, and they record a fixed area. The cameras may be on motorized mounts, and can remotely be turned,
zoomed, etc.

It turns out one of the images were slightly zoomed, and panned. So maybe someone had a crystal ball, or a lucky hand and just happened to adjust the camera on
this “future, to be hijacker”…because the security guy had a clue that MH370 would be hijacked…so instead of preventing
the hijacker from going on the flight, he simply adjusted the camera so he could present the image afterward for the news.

Maybe. Maybe not. Something is not adding up, and I'm not all comfy with the photocopy theory.

Still nothing else makes sense about the flight. I’m still waiting to read a theory about why there was no distress call before the unauthorized
turn.

[GyvAir]

It turns out one of the images were slightly zoomed, and panned.

How do you come to that conclusion?
To me, it looks like the images are simply cropped from frames with a much wider field of view. They presumably picked frames from the footage that best showed the features of the two individuals. They happened to be in slightly different locations relative to the camera when they gave their best mug, so naturally, the cropped areas would differ.

As far as why the digital to print to photocopy to digital bit.. who knows why? I'll throw out a theory on that though, just for fun.
1. It's entirely logical that photos were printed for investigative purposes, paper files, flashing to media during press conferences, etc.
2. Release of much information about this flight, throughout the saga, has been coming from anonymous persons "not authorized to speak to the media".
3. Someone with access to printed copies of the photos, but not digital copies may have photocopied or scanned them in order to spirit them out of the building so they could make a few bucks handing them over to the media.
(I don't know through what channels the photos were supposedly released, nor will I spend any effort trying to find out.)