Flair Air

[Krimson]

How is Flair doing these days? I heard some rumors that they were loosing the shell flying. Hiring again?

Starting pay for DEC and FO?

[leftoftrack]

Nope they have the contracts cause of their stating pay

[loopa]

Nope they have the contracts cause of their stating pay

Do you happen to know what it is? Or at least a ball park?

[tbaylx]

Nope they have the contracts cause of their stating pay

Do you happen to know what it is? Or at least a ball park?

Around $80K for a left seat, not sure for an F/O but you can figure it'll be close to $40K given the the starting captain wage.

[loopa]

Nope they have the contracts cause of their stating pay

Do you happen to know what it is? Or at least a ball park?

Around $80K for a left seat, not sure for an F/O but you can figure it'll be close to $40K given the the starting captain wage.

Thanks

I was only asking because the above information seems to be what's lurking around on these boards, and is actually far from the truth.

Especially since they are asking for time on type for DECs, you will not be starting at 80K or 40K or anywhere near that. Much higher. Even without time on type for the F/Os.

They fly you out for the interview, so you have nothing to lose if you get called. All the questions that you're wondering about you can ask there. The management (which from my understanding is new) are very upfront and honest about what's going on. Good schedule (about 13-15 days), good people, lots of experience, and a chief pilot that is a pilots chief pilot; the kind of CP you want at your company. His assistant cp is awesome as well. The VP personally asked if I was happy working there. Sounds like people that care about the well being of their group eh?

I am anticipating some comment about under cutting due to being a low standard company and as a result operate like Scare Air? The planes and crews are operated professionally and there's strict emphasis on adherence to FCOM's and Company Procedures. The Shell audit to actually qualify for the contract sounds like hell, they passed it. If you see something unfit in the way the company operates, you bring it to managements attention and in my experience it's always been addressed. Shell had a business model in mind, and Flair was able to provide it. And trust me, it wasn't at the expense of Flair Pilot's being paid poor income or getting bad treatment. Shell pilots were also given a shot to work here, and I believe only 3 didn't come here because they found other work. The ones that came here are treated good.

Is there room for improvement? There always is, and from the actions taken by the YLW group, they are taking the right steps to push this company to the heights everybody want to see it go. Just like anything good, it takes time to build.

This info seems to be contrary to what you see on the boards and I'll probably get chewed up and spat on by some replies come noon time for giving you some accurate info. If some of the things you see on these boards were true at the time they were posted, then this is a very different place to work today because none of the bad things I read on these forums about Flair lines up with present treatment.

Like I said, you have nothing to lose by doing an interview if called - ask all the hard questions and see how management responds. You'll see what I mean by them being upfront and honest when you accept the job offer and see how it's the picture that was painted.

Good luck to all of those that apply

[Krimson]

Thanks for the info Loopa,

Do you know if there is any truth to the rumor shell taking back their flying in-house, or is that just some talk someone created?

Is flair going to continue to do well and grow? Do you know how these spots opened up; growth or replacements?

[loopa]

Thanks for the info Loopa,

Do you know if there is any truth to the rumor shell taking back their flying in-house, or is that just some talk someone created?

Is flair going to continue to do well and grow? Do you know how these spots opened up; growth or replacements?

Given that it's the first time I'm hearing this rumor, I would venture to guess that it's just talk. I believe management when they say things look positive for us. Also, I don't see how that would even make sense. SIA is done. The process of rebuilding it would mean creating a completely new company/division at Shell since it doesn't exist any more.

In my humble opinion, Flair is going to do well. But there are some people that will disagree and think that it's just a matter of time until somebody undercuts Flair.

If there was much leverage in the words that "scare air" was from Oil sands passengers, then I have a hard time seeing why a company that requires 3 point contact when you walk up/down the stairs would commit to 10 years of provision from a company that scares its passengers. In my experience and opinion, Flair not only operates professionally, but if it identifies weakness in any section of the operation, they fix it.

The thing about Flair is that besides workforce transportation, the sky's our limit as for where we go. Our diverse flying is why you don't see our planes parked at one specific airport. YYC/YMM/AL4 may be the only place you see the plane sitting during odd hours.

My logic is that so long as there's a market for for the type of flying that Transat, Enerjet, Thomas Cook, Suncor, Sunwest, North Cariboo, 5T charters, etc, are doing, Flair is going to continue growing. Also, the day oil stops, it's not just Flair that will take a hit, 90% of the aforementioned will as well and it will be a sad day for aviation.

If I could venture to guess, the spots are not replacement, rather growth. At least I can't think of any attrition that's happened recently.

For somebody thinking of coming here, think about what the airline state is currently at in North America. Flair is a good place to be.

[Krimson]

Thanks Loopa,

Sounds pretty good over there, a lot better than what I had thought.

[loopa]

Thanks Loopa,

Sounds pretty good over there, a lot better than what I had thought.

Like I said, you will see a lot of negativity on these boards, and by no means am I down playing or saying that these individuals are lying (even though avcanada has a tendency to get carried away with some things). Only that if they in fact had as bad of a time as they make it sound, then things have obviously changed substantially to the point where I, a pretty neutral-minded person who needs to see-it-to-believe-it enjoy going to work every day.

If you dig for it, there are some present employees that reflected the same sort of positivity when people were flaming away.

[tbaylx]

Loopa,

Glad to hear that the previously posted info is incorrect. Can you shed some light on the DEC pay then? Don't think too many people want to go for an interview just to find out what the starting pay is.

[TheGandM]

Well it's nice to hear that the new CP is a pilot's pilot whatever that is? In the end, the CP, ACP, VP Flt Ops and the whoever mops the floor are only there to do the bidding of the top man. Make no mistake, when your face doesn't fit, you will be shown the door. They have a past and present of that behaviour, and I am pretty sure the future will bear that out. Yes Flair will be around for a long time to come, owners with deep pockets will do that, but ask yourself why are they always looking for pilots/ops coordinators etc? Because the top management are clowns...rich clowns, but still clowns.

By all means if you have an erection to fly a bastardized 737 then go for it. I Iook forward to your postings on this forum in several years when the circus leaves both you and the town behind.

[loopa]

Loopa,

Glad to hear that the previously posted info is incorrect. Can you shed some light on the DEC pay then? Don't think too many people want to go for an interview just to find out what the starting pay is.

Hey Tbaylx, out of respect to everyone working here, I don't feel it's appropriate post exactly what we are making but it's not as low as you were quoting it to be. Prior to getting flown out for your interview you have a phone interview. It would be the best place to ask as it would come straight from management. Although as a suggestion, I'm not sure how good that looks on you if the first question you ask about the company is how much you'd make. "So tell me, what does it pay?"

Well it's nice to hear that the new CP is a pilot's pilot whatever that is? In the end, the CP, ACP, VP Flt Ops and the whoever mops the floor are only there to do the bidding of the top man. Make no mistake, when your face doesn't fit, you will be shown the door. They have a past and present of that behaviour, and I am pretty sure the future will bear that out. Yes Flair will be around for a long time to come, owners with deep pockets will do that, but ask yourself why are they always looking for pilots/ops coordinators etc? Because the top management are clowns...rich clowns, but still clowns.

By all means if you have an erection to fly a bastardized 737 then go for it. I Iook forward to your postings on this forum in several years when the circus leaves both you and the town behind.

To be perfectly honest, I disagree with a lot of your conclusions but nonetheless, that's how you feel.

To my knowledge, the reason they are looking for pilot's and people in the office is to support the growth that Flair has continuously been achieving; not due to attrition or people getting fired. I've worked at a few companies in my time to know what low morale is, and I don't feel it going to work here. It's quite the opposite at least for the people that I run into at work.

Take care!

[tbaylx]

Loopa,

Glad to hear that the previously posted info is incorrect. Can you shed some light on the DEC pay then? Don't think too many people want to go for an interview just to find out what the starting pay is.

Hey Tbaylx, out of respect to everyone working here, I don't feel it's appropriate post exactly what we are making but it's not as low as you were quoting it to be. Prior to getting flown out for your interview you have a phone interview. It would be the best place to ask as it would come straight from management. Although as a suggestion, I'm not sure how good that looks on you if the first question you ask about the company is how much you'd make. "So tell me, what does it pay?"

Take care!

Fair enough, I wish companies would at least ball park their figures though, a lot of experienced guys don't want to waste anyone's time if the pay isn't competitive. If it's at least over 6 figures to start and they let guys know that, then Flair would get a lot more responses from quality applicants IMHO.

[cdnpilot77]

Fair enough, I wish companies would at least ball park their figures though,

I'm no expert, but I'm gonna say....500

[loopa]

Loopa,

Glad to hear that the previously posted info is incorrect. Can you shed some light on the DEC pay then? Don't think too many people want to go for an interview just to find out what the starting pay is.

Hey Tbaylx, out of respect to everyone working here, I don't feel it's appropriate post exactly what we are making but it's not as low as you were quoting it to be. Prior to getting flown out for your interview you have a phone interview. It would be the best place to ask as it would come straight from management. Although as a suggestion, I'm not sure how good that looks on you if the first question you ask about the company is how much you'd make. "So tell me, what does it pay?"

Take care!

Fair enough, I wish companies would at least ball park their figures though, a lot of experienced guys don't want to waste anyone's time if the pay isn't competitive. If it's at least over 6 figures to start and they let guys know that, then Flair would get a lot more responses from quality applicants IMHO.

In response to what you just said, it would be worth your time to apply. I know TGM and the likes will disagree, and they probably have their reasoning behind it, but it's a good place to work you guys/gals.

Best of luck

[tincanflyer]

Hows the Dornier doing? Heard the reliability hasn't been good and the circus music keeps playing on the operation side.......hence why theres a flood of job ads....the MASS EXIT!

[loopa]

Hows the Dornier doing? Heard the reliability hasn't been good and the circus music keeps playing on the operation side.......hence why theres a flood of job ads....the MASS EXIT!

Ahhh the tantrum of hearsay lol. Dornier operation has been rather smooth actually.

[PositiveRate27]

Fair enough, I wish companies would at least ball park their figures though,

I'm no expert, but I'm gonna say....500

Makes me laugh every time

[iflyforpie]

Fair enough, I wish companies would at least ball park their figures though,

I'm no expert, but I'm gonna say....500

Per day?

[wallflower]

Leopards rarely change their spots.
Get ready to be lied to and shafted.

[Krimson]

Is the YYZ base new?

[TheGandM]

No they had a YYZ/YHM base for several years and had pilots and F/A's based there. When said employees are no longer of any use to them, they are shown the door with not so much as a kiss after being f#*%ed. Didn't they recently advertise for a YHZ base? How is that working out? I thought so…

Bottom line with this circus is enjoy it while you can, because it won't be long before you are surplus to their current requirements and back on the street.

Send in the clowns….

[loopa]

No they had a YYZ/YHM base for several years and had pilots and F/A's based there. When said employees are no longer of any use to them, they are shown the door with not so much as a kiss after being f#*%ed. Didn't they recently advertise for a YHZ base? How is that working out? I thought so…

In my experience, if there was the need to close a base, those people were offered the choice to work out of our other base(s). This is no different than when say jazz or ac is closing it's base or doing "base realignment" and people have the option to stay with the company out of a new base, or obviously find new work. Is it fair, not entirely. But it's one of the gambles you accept taking a job in this industry working for any carrier. Did any of the WestJet guys being preached YYC some time ago anticipate having to move to YYZ? It's a dynamic industry and flexibility goes a long way in any job. Even the big leagues. One can't expect Flair to facilitate a place like YHZ if the stream of work/revenue is elsewhere.

Like I said, everybody has been very upfront and honest in my time here.

Bottom line with this circus is enjoy it while you can, because it won't be long before you are surplus to their current requirements and back on the street.

In my opinion you'll be set for a very long time if you take a job with any charter type of operator in Alberta.

Send in the clowns

I respect your experience, and certainly hope things are working out better for you today.

I'm just at a disconnect between what I see on a day-to-day basis and what you're saying.

Best of luck to everybody that applies

[Krimson]

Must have gotten a lot of applicants. Their requirements went up in two days.