Chisel Charter

Aviatorcaptain · Post by **Aviatorcaptain** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:09 pm

What are the rules about charging with a private aircraft? I mean at what point is it cost recovery and at what point are you charging too much? Should TC be notified of such an operation? Who is the correct person to chat with about this stuff?
I know of people that have done this for quite some time now and I don't believe this is fair for the companies doing things the correct way.

Looking for honest help and suggestions and feel free to PM me. Thanks.

Heliian · Post by **Heliian** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:11 pm

Just ask TC. If the pax arent incidental to the flight and/or are being charged for anything then its chisel. The pilot can only recover costs for the trip (fuel oil ldg fees) and it has to be voluntary. The pilot cannot demand reimbursement.

Wacko · Post by **Wacko** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:21 pm

Here's an interesting read:
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... ns-558.htm
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... 0-1755.htm

ahramin · Post by **ahramin** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:46 pm

With a little searching you will find many threads here discussing this topic ad nauseum. The links provided by Wacko sum it up nicely however.

photofly · Post by **photofly** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:25 am

Wacko wrote:Here's an interesting read:
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... ns-558.htm
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... 0-1755.htm

That first article is terrible; it contains several errors or misleading statements. Which goes to suggest that not even asking TC how to interpret their own regulations is going to help you.

The second article is just as wrong.

Aviatorcaptain · Post by **Aviatorcaptain** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:47 pm

Thanks for the replies. I'm looking more for specific people to talk to and their contacts (pm only please) I don't like the runaround I get at TC. Everyone is always interested in helping me find the right person but only the guy that's on a 3 week holiday seems to be the man for the job.

photofly · Post by **photofly** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:55 pm

Why not wait three weeks until he gets back?

Redneck_pilot86 · Post by **Redneck_pilot86** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:45 pm

I'm assuming you're coming at this from the point of view of the legit operator losing work to the chisel operator? My first talk would be to that PIC, make sure he or she knows what they are doing is illegal, and point out the liability they are taking on should there ever be an accident. The passengers lawyers will own everything before they are done. If this isn't enough, it will have to be TC enforcement but I don't know where to get those contacts.

Prairie Chicken · Post by **Prairie Chicken** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:40 pm

Go on line & find the phone number of the regional TC Enforcement office of the region the guy is operating in. Call & ask to speak to an inspector. Explain the situation & be prepared to provide some details such as your own name, marks of the subject a/c, & a date. Your name will remain confidential unless & until such time as a requirement to testify occurs. They will advise you further. It is as simple as that.

Any further questions, pm me.

From a former Enforcement Inspector...

azimuthaviation · Post by **azimuthaviation** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:48 pm

Aviatorcaptain wrote:the runaround I get at TC

photofly wrote:not even asking TC how to interpret their own regulations is going to help you.

Aviatorcaptain wrote:the guy that's on a 3 week holiday seems to be the man for the job.

photofly wrote:The second article is just as wrong.

What position is TC coming from telling people what they can and cant do? Youre looking to a dysfunctional, confused organization to bring order to this situation?

Aviatorcaptain · Post by **Aviatorcaptain** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:06 pm

This guy is well aware, even before I told him about it. Thanks to all who helped.

MrWings · Post by **MrWings** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:03 pm

photofly wrote: That first article is terrible; it contains several errors or misleading statements. Which goes to suggest that not even asking TC how to interpret their own regulations is going to help you.

The second article is just as wrong.

Wrong according to your interpretation. Are you willing to challenge it? Because the way it is written is how TC has interpretted it and how they enforce it. I've seen it done however wrong you say they might be.

Roar · Post by **Roar** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:58 pm

If you are a legitimate commercial operator that is losing business to a chisel charter company, TC would be the second government agency I would call the first would be to the Canadian Transportation Agency.
It is responsible for:

Dispute resolution: to resolve complaints about transportation services, fares, rates, and charges;
Accessibility: to ensure that the national transportation system is accessible, particularly to persons with disabilities; and
Economic regulation: to provide approvals and licences and to make decisions on matters involving federally regulated air, rail, and marine transportation.

MrWings · Post by **MrWings** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:17 pm

No, call TC. They threaten to pull your licence and they mean it.

midwingcrisis · Post by **midwingcrisis** » Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:34 am

The FAA Is Deciding If Planesharing Apps Are Legal

http://techcrunch.com/2014/07/08/planesharing/

Prairie Chicken · Post by **Prairie Chicken** » Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:21 am

Both agencies would take an interest in a true chisel charter. Often if one gets evidence of one, they will share that info with the other agency.

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