Lycoming 360 stuck exhaust valve - lesson learned

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PilotDAR
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Lycoming 360 stuck exhaust valve - lesson learned

Post by PilotDAR »

My tour to Canada's extreme north east was interrupted by a stuck exhaust valve at the end of my first leg. It was trip (prepaid) threatening. With some very kind and generous help, and the lone of exactly the needed guide home - delivered, I was able to stay on track, and did finish the trip (44 total hours, 40 post valve work).

I had confidence in the engine, as it has always run like a top. 240 hours TTSO, not a problem. Suddenly, out of no where, a stuck valve just as I landed. I was not even sure, until I was on the ground, and confirmed rough running and extreme low EGT on that cylinder. After parking, a pull through confirmed it. After seeking recommendations for a quick fix, just to get me back home, nothing worked. It was really stuck.

The hone arrived the next morning, and I went to work. I removed all the forward cowls and dropped the entire exhaust, so as to access the exhaust ports. I noted that the thin exhaust gasket on that cylinder had blown, and was mostly missing, allowing exhaust gasses to escape between the cylinder port face, and exhaust flange. No damage to either. I had had loose nuts there, which I had previously tightened. I though no more of this at the time, but I do now!

I used the rope trick, and released the keepers and springs. I had to pound on the valve stem to get the valve into the cylinder. With that, I honed, and used the "go-no go" gauge, to confirm the honing was done as required. Once done, with some finger and tool art, I got the valve back in the guide, and its motion was a thing of beauty. As the exhaust was all off anyway, I similarly checked the other three cylinders. Their valves were perfect, no honing required.

Four new blow proof gaskets, and new rocker gaskets, and the end of a long day heard the engine purr again. An hour long test flight to confirm success, and return the tools, perfect. So I continued my original trip, and caught up to the rest of the group.

I was puzzled by the seemingly unrelated coincidence of the blown exhaust gasket being the cylinder with the stuck valve. I discussed this with the group the first night, and a retired Continental Engines engineer explained it to me: If the exhaust gasses are not carried well away from the cylinder as intended, that cylinder will get locally hotter than intended. As the guide is running hotter, it expands more, and allows more gunk to accumulate. Finally when I pulled the power off, and made a low power approach, the cylinder cooled again, and that was it for the guide to valve stem clearance. It all makes perfect sense.

So the lesson is that to keep the engine running properly, and cool, assure that the exhaust gaskets are totally effective. With the 13 hours of easterly flying time to prove out the quality of my repair, I had the confidence to take it out for some air to air with a friend. The result is my new avatar :D
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Colonel Sanders
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Re: Lycoming 360 stuck exhaust valve - lesson learned

Post by Colonel Sanders »

Glad you fixed the problem ...

I know the AME's here like to make fun of me
because I like the airplane and engine to be
clean as a whistle, inside and out, but sometimes
it's not just a fetish.

Image

For Lycoming, see SB 388C and SI 1425A.

PS Dental floss with good tensile strength
makes the job easy. Remember, it's good
for one pull, then replace with new floss.

AME's, ridicule away.
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sstocker31
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Re: Lycoming 360 stuck exhaust valve - lesson learned

Post by sstocker31 »

Here is a link that relates to the problem you had. It's a bit of a read but well worth it in the end, It will help you understand why this happens.

http://egaa.home.mindspring.com/engine1.htm
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iflyforpie
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Re: Lycoming 360 stuck exhaust valve - lesson learned

Post by iflyforpie »

No blos are the only way to go. Those tin-foil gaskets (or even worse, copper and asbestos) gaskets are absolute crap.
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Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?
DonutHole
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Re: Lycoming 360 stuck exhaust valve - lesson learned

Post by DonutHole »

Ok. I dont care if this is a stupid question.

Say some guy has an rv. .

And some dental floss

And some sticky valves


How the hell do these things relate?

My experience has never combined the three, I know there is a dental floss trick and I wanna know what it is!!!

I worked at a cub shop for a few years and when I asked my 'supervisory' engineer about it i received a blank stare.
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GyvAir
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Re: Lycoming 360 stuck exhaust valve - lesson learned

Post by GyvAir »

If CS were here, he could give you the run down on rope and dental floss, etc. pretty quickly. I imagine you could search his posts over the last few years for it still..
iflyforpie wrote:No blos are the only way to go.
+1
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DonutHole
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Re: Lycoming 360 stuck exhaust valve - lesson learned

Post by DonutHole »

GyvAir wrote:If CS were here, he could give you the run down on rope and dental floss, etc. pretty quickly. I imagine you could search his posts over the last few years for it still..
iflyforpie wrote:No blos are the only way to go.
+1
:) All those references are gone... along with any mention of model glue and fabric paint repair
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GyvAir
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Re: Lycoming 360 stuck exhaust valve - lesson learned

Post by GyvAir »

Are we using the same search function? :| At least I presume this is what you're referring to:

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=90150&start=25&hilit=dental
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PilotDAR
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Re: Lycoming 360 stuck exhaust valve - lesson learned

Post by PilotDAR »

Very interesting, thanks sstocker31. In a different way, my stuck exhaust valve was the result of a cooling failure. But I certainly see the association. My O-360 installation is one of only two ever done, and I have more time on mine, than the other aircraft, which is long out of service. Thus, there is no accumulated experience on how my particular installation cools in general. But, it actually seems to cool a little too well, if winter operations are any indications. I'll be watching it over time, with greater understanding...

As for the dental floss trick, I prefer magnets and long, slender needle nose pliers. Rope is fairly standard. However - use larger, rather than smaller diameter braided rope. Twisted rope does not bend well enough to be useful, and smaller diameter rope can get caught between an open exhaust valve and the seat - and then you will have to remove the cylinder.

I use the rope trick, as I like to keep the exhaust valve operation as ideal as possible - preventative maintenance. Repeated removal and replacement of cylinders on older cases can introduce other problems (pulled studs). But the rope trick is a part of a well executed maintenance procedure, which requires other special tools, and is best learned by first hand mentoring.
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DonutHole
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Re: Lycoming 360 stuck exhaust valve - lesson learned

Post by DonutHole »

Magnets on an engine? I've always been told that's a big no - no considering the permeability of certain ferrous metals.

That rope trick.. sounds handy in a bind.
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