Bad dreams

[Meatservo]

Cat Driver started a thread about whether crop-dusting was more dangerous than airshow flying. I was thinking about it, and this led me to think about a recurring nightmare that I have.

It takes one of two forms. In one, I am flying down a country road below the level of the trees on the sides of the road. Just taken off from that road I guess. Before I can climb above the trees to turn on course, they close in above and I am forced to fly basically in a tunnel, unable to pull up into the clear. The trees get lower and closer together and I always wake up before I hit them.

In another version of the same dream, I am flying either down a river, ocean channel between two islands (like the one near Maple Bay) or between buildings in an urban environment. There are cables and wires criss-crossing above me, and I can't get above them. Sometimes I manage to get above them, only to find there is another level of wires even higher, and now I am stuck between the lower and the upper ones. Usually I wake up before I hit them, but the last time I had this dream I actually did hit them, but woke up right at the moment of impact.

It always takes me a few seconds when I wake up, to remember where I am, and to calm down and realize it's just a dream.

A related dream I used to have was that I would find myself inside a control zone without having talked to anyone. I admit, it's not as dramatic as the first two kinds.

Anyone else have these?

[No Quarter]

Very common dreams for aviators.

[Cat Driver]

I also ocassionally have the flying below wires dream with no way to get above them, and I always wake up just before I hit them.....weird that a lot of us have the same dream.

[Meatservo]

I think it's weird too. The reason I brought it up is that some of my friends admit they have the same dream from time to time. None of us, to the best of my knowledge, have ever had an experience like that in real life, yet we all have the same dream.

It's about as close to a "collective consciousness" as I've seen in a group of people. I've had plenty of bad dreams about this or that in my life, but this one is shared by many people. I would find it less weird if flying under wires was more common, but other than crop-dusters, most people don't get anywhere near wires.

[JayVee]

I too have the flying off a road, under wires dream.

Probably going to run that film again tonight.

[KnownIce]

Sometimes I dream that I am caught wrestling the local flight school's 172 around the circuit, with page #3 of the pre-landing checklist missing.

Piss the bed every time.

[Shiny Side Up]

I have a recurring dream where I can fly without the aid of an airplane. In the dream it seems so easy and I find myself asking "why didn't I think of this before?"

[JBI]

This is interesting. I've definitely had the flying under wires dream and not able to get above them.

What's also interesting is that both I and a lot of my friends that have attended grad or professional school all have the dream even years after finishing that we're back in school and there's an exam or project due the next day in a course that we didn't know we were taking. All nearly identical facts scenarios. The brain is a strange thing.

[PilotDAR]

Yup, had the "under wires" dream many times! I woke up before having to climb all but once. Tried to climb between two wires once, and hit one, but woke up before I hit the ground - that was close!

[timel]

Yup, had the "under wires" dream many times! I woke up before having to climb all but once. Tried to climb between two wires once, and hit one, but woke up before I hit the ground - that was close!

+1
Phreakin weird

[Changes in Latitudes]

Exact same thing regarding the under the wires dream. I've had them for a very long time, as type ratings changed, so have the aircraft in my dreams; although I'll sometimes go back to different aircraft. I generally don't wake up because of them anymore because they happen so often.

It's kind of reassuring to hear this, I never realized it was so common.

[Rockie]

I've had the dream many times as well. It's a primal fear of aviators because "up" has always been our way out of something and if we can't do it we're trapped and so try to avoid it as much as possible.

There's a link there to the other thread I think....

[fleet16b]

Same here, I have the under the wires dream at least 3-4 times per year.
Always thought it was because I have 3 wires crossing my runway at mid point
I actually feel better knowing that many of us have the same dream. Maybe I am a little saner than I thought

[Meatservo]

OK so, here's where you guys are going to laugh at me maybe, but seriously, think about it before you start making fun of it: I'd like more people to chime in, but so far we have seen evidence that many pilots have the same dream. Maybe most pilots. I was especially reassured the hear that Cat Driver has these dreams, because if anyone has had the chance to get used to flying, he has. Obviously, if you don't mind me saying so Cat Driver, even after all your hours of flying, your brain is still busy working something over about flying.

Here is my theory. I think that pilots are experiencing mild post- "traumatic" stress. Please don't laugh. I was thinking about it and I realized that most or all of us, at some time or other, (or maybe quite often!) have been in a situation where it would be fair to say "If I don't do something RIGHT NOW, we are all going to die." If you think about it, among the non-flying population, if a person experienced a moment like that, they would write a book about it and receive 15 minutes of fame. We don't talk about it for various reasons, you know, good marketing requires that we make flying seem as pedestrian as possible, but really it requires, most of the time, a lot of planning and no small amount of good luck. It's part of the job, and we accepted those terms when we learned to fly.

Like a lot of us, my job requires sometimes, that I operate a relatively large aircraft in and out of relatively narrow and short-ish areas. I've been doing it for a long time now, and I'm considered to be fairly reliable at it, but even then, there are some times I think to myself, "well I'm glad THAT plan worked". Then I get home and my wife says "what did you do today" and I say "nothing much". "Cause it's the same thing every day right? I can only imagine what it's like to be the kind of pilot who DOES actually have to fly under wires, or bomb forest fires, or fly IFR in a helicopter out to oil rigs in the North Atlantic, or other things I would be terrified to do.

So, I'm not trying to say there's any reason to feel like there is something wrong with the situation, only that if we are all having this dream, and some of us aren't even aware that other guys are having it, then it must be based in some kind of collective experience right? Our minds have experienced a particular source of stress that has manufactured a common artifact in our mental processes. I submit that when a human being is placed in a situation where preserving his or her own life becomes their sole and immediate responsibility, and they can't slough that responsibility off on anybody else, that constitutes a trauma that makes the mind react in a particular way, and in this case gives all of us the same anxiety dreams. I'm not saying we deserve a badge or anything. It's just that I've been searching for some common ground with you goofs for my whole career, and I think I've finally found it.

[GyvAir]

I used to have those dreams when I was a kid, long before ever setting foot in an aircraft, but not so much since. It always took place flying along the same road climbing a long steep hill. Initially everything would be fine, happily flying over or under single wires gaining a bit of altitude. Within a minute or so though, I'd reach an area criss-crossed with multiple high tension transmission lines and towers everywhere that I couldn't navigate through, followed by the inevitable last second waking up. No aircraft involved though.. this was just pure flying.

Edit: Not trying to debunk your theory, Meatservo! I wrote that post before I saw your second one.

[Meatservo]

Wow. BEFORE you started flying. There goes my theory! Weird eh?

[Cat Driver]

Obviously, if you don't mind me saying so Cat Driver, even after all your hours of flying, your brain is still busy working something over about flying.

Thanks for the encouragement, and this subject is very important for pilots to understand.

I believe we have these dreams because the sub conscious mind has to relieve its self of the burden of cumulative stress that comes with the job.

Is there any way we can stay alive longer in aviation?

I think there is, I believe that there are times when we must choose to do it the easier way and not worry about what others think.

I am still struggling with the shock of seeing one of my best friends fly into the ground and burn to death.

It was Glen Dell and he was one of the best in the world, yet he kept pushing the envelope until one day his luck ran out.

So here I sit thinking about how we used to argue about how close to the limits we should fly.

I will soon be eighty and looking back on the life I led I am unable to understand why I am still here, all I can think of there were times I just refused to fly because deep down I was afraid to take the risk it involved.

Maybe I am a live chicken instead of a dead duck?

[GyvAir]

Definitely weird how common this dream is. I wonder what kind of stressful flying dreams people had before the land was criss crossed with wires?

The other version of the dream I used to have was also flying bird style, no aircraft. There was no road and no wires, but after reaching a satisfying yet frightening altitude, I'd run out of stanima and start to fall. Those dreams were a lot better than the wire ones though, as I would get a lot more air time in before things went south.

[timel]

Except Cat Driver, he dreams he flies over pylons. Because his great experience taught him that crop dusters are stupid if they fly below. Hold on, I am writing an email right now to my crop duster friends who do that and will tell the how sh***ty is their airmanship.

[Changes in Latitudes]

Meatservo,

That was pretty insightful and really well written. Clearly, you've been thinking a lot on the topic. I've thought on it a bunch too but never mentioned it because I don't need to appear any crazier than I already do. If you add a few extra notches of stress in there, maybe have a really close call, or lose some friends doing similar activities, this common mindset we have can get out of control in a hurry. It's good to hear that we're all in a very similar situation with this. At the very minimum, some may not feel as weirded out by it.

Great post.

Maybe I am a live chicken instead of a dead duck?

Great analogy, Cat. Great one for everyone to keep at the back of their minds.

[Cat Driver]

Except Cat Driver, he dreams he flies over pylons. Because his great experience taught him that crop dusters are stupid if they fly below. Hold on, I am writing an email right now to my crop duster friends who do that and will tell the how sh***ty is their airmanship.

You are entitled to your opinion timel, however where did I say those who fly under wires were stupid?

There have been many accidents where ag pilots hit wires trying to fly under them.

There have been no accidents caused by safely flying over them.

[GyvAir]

Off topic..

[DonutHole]

There are too many ways to kill yourself dusting...

I have the dream backwards.. I'm flying over the wires and can't get down

[Meatservo]

Please don't start bickering guys, this is a really interesting subject for me.

Some time ago there was an accident at the company I worked for, and two pilots I worked closely with died, flying the same kind of plane I was flying that day. In fact I had the choice that day of whether to fly the flight I did, or the flight they were on, and I picked the one I did because it was likely to have less annoying passengers, of all the stupid reasons.

I don't want to talk about it other than to say that one of the things that came out in the voice-recorder analysis was that they had performed their S.O.P.s right by the book until the accident happened. Not that this had anything to do with why the accident happened, but I was also the training pilot at the time and for some reason this one fact was both horrifying and gratifying. As a result, years later, I am always acutely conscious of what legacy the last 20 minutes of tape will hold for me. I can't stop being aware of it, even though I have no intention whatsoever of dying in an aeroplane!

[Airtids]

Had both the rising terrain and the under wires dreams (under wires was always along some brightly lighted street, like Freemont!). Haven't had either in quite a few years, at lease since moving into the Flight Levels.

Here's more weirdness: these are not the only common dreams we may be having. Plenty of research on the common "showing up in a public place and realizing you're not wearing any pants" and another one where loose teeth start falling out. There doesn't seem to be any explanation for these (wonder what Freud would say!), but they are universal!

Tids