Question for ex Skyservice, Canada 3000 and Zoom pilots

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Of those Canadian pilots who deployed to Europe in reciprocal deals with European partners while you were working for Canada 3000, Skyservice or Zoom, how many deployed to Europe to fly European registered aircraft rather than Canadian Registered aircraft ?

[Gino Under]

While employed by C3, I was deployed to EGCC to operate Air 2000 charters to the Med but we were not given or asked to obtain an LVC or write any exams because we only flew our own Canadian registered aircraft. Strictly a wet lease arrangement. To my knowledge and recollection none of us flew G registered aircraft (I certainly didn't when I was there) while on any of these assignments and we only flew with fellow C3 crew. The flight attendants were all Air 2000.

Gino Under

[GRK]

What he said…but I seem to recall we were allowed to use TC duty regs for a while, so some got the sh*tty end of the stick and flew long nights when the UK boys n girls were safe and warm in the pub. That changed I think after a year or so, and the wet leases became quite nice flying! The Air 2000 and Flying Colours crew were nice to work with, if you could get past the Geordy and Mancunian dialects…I swear it's a different language shared by a common people. There was only a small reluctance by the UK pilot group to accept the presence of strangers taking some of their work away.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

So no Canadian pilot remembers deploying to Europe for SkyService, C3 or Zoom to fly European Registered aircraft ?

That is what I thought.

From day one, Canada had been trading Wet-Leases to Europe against European pilots coming over here and flying Canadian Registered aircraft on FLVCs........

[aerosexual]

So no Canadian pilot remembers deploying to Europe for SkyService, C3 or Zoom to fly European Registered aircraft ?

That is what I thought.

From day one, Canada had been trading Wet-Leases to Europe against European pilots coming over here and flying Canadian Registered aircraft on FLVCs........

So no Canadian pilot has replied to your posting to say they operated European registered aircraft, therefore it never happened. I can tell you that in fact it did happen, and quite a bit too.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Perhaps and I am making an honest attempt to try to find out. But all the Skyservice pilots who contacted me, said they never did it themselves.......

I find out of lot of info through these posts, often from people who chose never to post themselves. I get PMs, emails, and the odd phone call........

I have a pile of correspondence between SkyService and Transport Canada dating back to 2003 which I obtained through the Access to Information Act (I am looking for something else based on what Ex Sky pilots told me) and all mention of Europe deployments in what I have available to me are Wet-Leases.....

[GRK]

Aerosex…

You have two guys who clearly recall not flying any G reg aircraft…maybe not enough for you, but please tell up where you get your info on wet leases during that time? It's proof he's looking for, not hearsay...

[mikecharlieoscar]

Did both with Sky.

98 to 05, it was all C-reg. From 06 to 09 it was G-reg - for me, two years on a FLVC, two years with a UK licence. Summer 10, post Skyservice, flew on a six month contract with Thomson in Ireland (in the company of about 20 other ex-Sky pilots). That was coordinated through a Montreal based agency and was rumoured at the time to be part of the "offset" for what would be the following winter's deployment of UK based pilots to Canada to fly with Sunwing. Not sure if that rumour was fact or fiction

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Did both with Sky.

98 to 05, it was all C-reg. From 06 to 09 it was G-reg - for me, two years on a FLVC, two years with a UK licence. Summer 10, post Skyservice, flew on a six month contract with Thomson in Ireland (in the company of about 20 other ex-Sky pilots). That was coordinated through a Montreal based agency and was rumoured at the time to be part of the "offset" for what would be the following winter's deployment of UK based pilots to Canada to fly with Sunwing. Not sure if that rumour was fact or fiction

Thanks.

[aerosexual]

Aerosex…

You have two guys who clearly recall not flying any G reg aircraft…maybe not enough for you, but please tell up where you get your info on wet leases during that time? It's proof he's looking for, not hearsay...

GRK, give me a break. I said there were Canadian pilots flying European registered aircraft in the past. It was not hearsay. However, I don't have specific info right now (numbers and years, etc) to provide the facts you are looking for, but it did happen, as mentioned just above.

[ea306]

In 2007 while I was based in NCL UK I was flying wet lease for XL UK with Sunwing.
Meanwhile my very good friend was flying G Reg for Thomas Cook under short term contract also based in NCL with a FLVC. Once his contract was done he returned to Canada.

[GRK]

Aerosex,

Sheesh, what a grouch! But I guess if you said it, we all should believe you. No break given…

[aerosexual]

Aerosex,

Sheesh, what a grouch! But I guess if you said it, we all should believe you. No break given…

You better believe it makes me grouchy. Two pilots said they themselves flew C-Reg aircraft only, and you take that as meaning nobody must have flown European registered aircraft, despite me saying that it has happened quite frequently in the past. I'm not hear to spew BS around, just try to provide some balanced rebuttal and facts where I feel it may be necessary. I'll go drink some camomile tea now.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Ok. The paperwork, I have, which is from 2003 and before, only mentions Skyservice Wet-Leases to Europe.

Based on what mikecharlieoscar wrote, it is from 2006 and later that Canadian pilots flew European registered aircraft.

It seems that the last time this occurred was in the summer of 2011 when both Sunwing and Canjet sent a few pilots to Europe to fly European registered aircraft.

Today, EASA no longer allows foreign licensed pilots to fly European registered aircraft commercially. In fact they no longer allow foreign licensed pilots to even fly foreign registered aircraft if said aircraft is based in Europe and flying for a European airline.

They do give FLVCs, but once in your life, for one year, to allow you to prepare the EASA licence.

Why is it that since 1998, when this all began, the Canadians were sending their crews on Wet-Leases to Europe while the Europeans were coming to Canada to fly Canadian Registered aircraft on FLVCs ?

Why weren't the exchanges, or the reciprocity in the same currency (wet-lease against wet-lease or pilots on FLVC against pilots on FLVCs) ?

[Gino Under]

The seasonal markets in Europe and Canada being what they are, probably affected the number of aircraft and crews required seasonally. I think in the beginning it was simply a matter of send what you can this year because next year the numbers will likely be different. Resulting in a balance over time.
Reciprocity must have worked its way into the discussions as airline managers and pilots woke up to the reality of an imbalance. (Well, at least pilots woke up to it)

Remember, the Europeans will squawk louder and sooner than Canadians when this sh*t happens. Now that Canadians have woken up and uncharacteristically started to squawk, many seem to think there's something wrong with OUR reaction and that WE'RE discriminating against foreign pilots.
We're not! (and if we are, tough)

There's a difference between job protection and discrimination. Look what EASA have done to help their airlines use foreign (as in anyone not European) pilots. Looks like simple protectionism to me.
Something our government and regulators need to be doing over here. Protecting Canadians and Canadian jobs.

When the day comes that we need foreign pilot support in our industry, firstly, a pilot shortage overseas may exclude any overseas pilot supply as an option and secondly, I'm reasonably confident they would be welcome. However it goes down.
But, one thing's for sure and certain. We don't need foreign pilot support now, we don't need the TFW program abuse and every pilot in Canada should be livid over this fiasco. Sunwing should be made to cease and desist along with any other Canadian employer who's carrying on the same practice.

Wet lease arrangements are an entirely separate issue and not the same. TFW and LVCs are the issue.

Pretty simple, I'd say.


Gino Under