Air Richelieiu Vs Cargair Vs Eid Air

[Kaptene]

Hi All
I want to do my prefessional training, and was wondering if you could help me out?
I was wondering if you can recommand me air richelieu or Cargair or eid air in sherbrooke? which one has cheaper rates, high quality and well organized?

So far i've heared that cargair had some rates discount, but seems for a period only...

Any how, just want to know more about these schools (I called them and all say they are the best)...hard to believe...


thanks

[timel]

Don't go Air Richelieu, very expensive, and the instructors are working on slavery wages.
Cargair in St-Hubert is a factory of pilot, I don't recommend it either, plus you may have to pay like .4 or .5 hours just to wait on the taxiway to takeoff on busy days. EID air I don't know them, just avoid CYHU airport school at all costs.

In Mascouche they have ALM and Cargair as well, that are more decent, very good chief instructors for both schools and they seem to have some very nice instructors.

When you choose a school don't look just for discount and fares only. If you want to go through the instructor path to build your hours, you might want to see if they will hire you after all, the work conditions and all of the stuffs coming with it. If if it for private purpose, you want to look for quality of instructins, and you might want to stick with one instructors instead of having 5 different that do not know you.

[mike123]

If you don't mind driving west of Montreal consider Laurentide Aviation or Cornwall Aviation. Otherwise Devenir Pilote at St-Jean-sur-Richelieau may be a good option.

[trampbike]

just avoid CYHU airport school at all costs.

+1

[Kaptene]

If self studiying , Am I obliged to do the ground school with an instructor? so far cargair said it would be possible...any idea?

and do plm and cargai hire instructors after graduating?

[timel]

If self studiying , Am I obliged to do the ground school with an instructor? so far cargair said it would be possible...any idea?

and do plm and cargai hire instructors after graduating?

It is a bit far in my head, but PPL you have to do the ground school, for the CPL you can do self studying as long as you can show you did the hours.

For the jobs you got to ask schools. Ask also the instructors what they do. Some school do train too many instructors, so there is not enough job to make a living. Some allow you to get an other job while working as an instructor, some will ask you to stick around if you want to do some work.

[photofly]

I don't think there's any difference in that respect between CPL and PPL - both have a requirement for a certain number of hours of ground instruction.

CAR 406.24 says "No flight training unit shall appoint a person as a ground instructor and no person shall act as a ground instructor unless the person holds a flight instructor rating in the appropriate category or meets the personnel licensing standards."

That rules out self-directed study - you need an instructor. But you can take an online course such as at pilottraining.ca.

[Shiny Side Up]

CAR 406.24 says "No flight training unit shall appoint a person as a ground instructor and no person shall act as a ground instructor unless the person holds a flight instructor rating in the appropriate category or meets the personnel licensing standards."

That rules out self-directed study.

Read it again, no it doesn't.

[trampbike]

That rules out self-directed study - you need an instructor.

You need an instructor to recommend you for the written test, and some sort of record showing you studied for at least 40h the different subjects covered in the PPL test. No need to sit in a classroom with an instructor or to do an online program.

[Kaptene]

but if for exemple you already hold a ground instructor from the US...would that be applicable? there is no rules on this under transport canada...

[timel]

I'm pretty sure you can self study for the CPL, PPL as well? I did not know.
You will need a recommendation like Trampbike said, from your instructor to write the exams.

Usually they give you school exams, see how well you do and upon that write a recommandation letter.

[photofly]

CAR 406.24 says "No flight training unit shall appoint a person as a ground instructor and no person shall act as a ground instructor unless the person holds a flight instructor rating in the appropriate category or meets the personnel licensing standards."

That rules out self-directed study.

Read it again, no it doesn't.

With great respect to you, yes, it does. If self-study was permitted then there'd be no need to specify the qualification of someone to act as ground instructor to carry out the required hours of ground instruction.

Ground instruction requires a ground instructor. A ground instructor has to be qualified as per the CARs. You can't direct your own ground instruction.

Self-directed study is permitted for the RPP - you just need to take and pass the test. Not for the CPL or PPL.

Of course if you can find an instructor to lie for you and say you've studied the required hours of ground school then go ahead.

[Shiny Side Up]

You can do your own self study, people have been doing it for years and I've been round and round with TC over this. The CAR you cite above doesn't specify that the ground school requirement must be taught by an instructor in a classroom, only that if a FTU gives ground school instruction, then said instructors must meet certain requirements. TC does not specify how ground school instruction is to be completed, only that it must cover the list of subjects as per 421.26 (3) for the PPL and 421.30 (3) for the CPL.

Note as well that 406.24 also has the hole:

or meets the personnel licensing standards.

Note 426.24's very loose specifications.

Note also TC's own advice when looking for a flight school:

Ground school usually takes the form of an instructor teaching a scheduled class over a period of several weeks. Alternatively, a self-paced study program using video or audio tapes and/or computer-based programs may be offered. Which is better depends on you. If you are self-disciplined, a self-starter and self-paced, video programs are excellent learning tools. You can "attend" ground school on your schedule and review the tapes as needed. If you need the discipline of the classroom, the choice is obvious. Perhaps the best option is a combination of the two. Many schools have a traditional classroom ground school and a resource room that contains self-paced materials for additional study.

From TC's website on "How to select a flight school". I especially like the second bolded part that for some reason they put in quotation marks.

[photofly]

Self-paced study is not self-directed study.

Note the specific CARs requirement for "ground instruction" - you actually have to be instructed - not just ground study. Certainly online or a/v training counts - I did recommend pilottraining.ca earlier in this thread - but there's still an instructor involved.

[Kaptene]

The guy from Cabair is very experienced..if he said it"s possible, I think that would be the case..unless he mis-understood me or it's a trick to bring me to their school

[photofly]

I'm sure nobody is trying to trick you. People interpret regulations in different ways though. If TC is happy with your sign-off then there's no foul.

[Shiny Side Up]

Self-paced study is not self-directed study.

Note the specific CARs requirement for "ground instruction" - you actually have to be instructed - not just ground study. Certainly online or a/v training counts - I did recommend pilottraining.ca earlier in this thread - but there's still an instructor involved.

I hate to belabour the point, but the CARs do not define ground instruction. Otherwise how does a video or online course meet the requirements? The instructor and student have zero contact, so that proves the point that you don't have to be "ground instructed" unless you submit that the definition of "ground instruction" includes other instructor absent methods.

Again, the CARs do not specify what constitutes ground school instruction. It only specifies if people are going to teach it, how they must be appointed. Technically, with 426.24, the CFI, assistant CFI, etc. can appoint whomever to teach themselves.

[rob-air]

Ok, I have to disagree with that.

quote="timel"] just avoid CYHU airport school at all costs./quote]




CYHU is a good place to train, .4 or .5 on the ground is very unusual but it can happen on busy weekends. So fly on week days were we average .3 between air and flight time.(it does depends on the students). I think that what gives CYHU a bad rep is that most instructor are milking the students , big circuits, long cruises to training area.....In fact as soon as you get out of the control zone there is designated training areas with the terminal (very few instructors uses those). We actually achieve PPLs close to the 45 hrs mark. There is also a lot of small airports around to go do some circuits if too busy at CYHU. Instructors should be able to be operationally efficient especially if they want to move up the aviation ladder.

Eddit: that being said the stupid landing fee will is bs. 10$ per flight, so on a PPL + CPL pobably 1500$ extra!

[timel]

All the schools in CYHU don't allow their instructors and students as well
to land in all nearby airport (ex: CSB3) because the runway is too "short" (2400 feet').

They have soo many students, that even a cpl pilot won't be allowed to take an airplaine if
crosswind is over 10 kts, if no instructor knows the CPL and will sign for
him.

From a non controlled airport you will almost never wait on the ground, you won't have to do paterns with 10 other airplanes, and the chances your instructor will remember your name are much higher.

[rob-air]

All the schools in CYHU don't allow their instructors and students as well
to land in all nearby airport (ex: CSB3) because the runway is too "short" (2400 feet').

They have soo many students, that even a cpl pilot won't be allowed to take an airplaine if
crosswind is over 10 kts, if no instructor knows the CPL and will sign for
him.

From a non controlled airport you will almost never wait on the ground, you won't have to do paterns with 10 other airplanes, and the chances your instructor will remember your name are much higher.

Not all of them, We take students regularly to CSB3, fly X-wind and our CFI knows every students by name!

[girouxc]

According to TP12880:

EXAMINATION PREREQUISITES
Prior to taking a written examination, an applicant for a flight crew permit, licence or rating shall meet the prerequisites for the examination set out in the personnel licensing standards with respect to CAR 401.13(1)
a) medical fitness;
b) identification
c) a recommendation from the flight instructor who is responsible for the training of the
applicant; and
d) experience

That's what you need to write the exam. Yes, you can self study. After your instructor confirms you have the knowledge by signing the letter you fulfill requirement of 401.13 c)

But, you need to be self disciplined, curious and rigorous to study by yourself.

[timel]

Not all of them, We take students regularly to CSB3, fly X-wind and our CFI knows every students by name!

I was instructor for a few years, I have met many angry students who were flying in CYHU, most didn't even know how to put oil or fuel in an airplane, except if there has been drastic changes lately, otherwise I call it BS.

[trampbike]

We take students regularly to CSB3, fly X-wind and our CFI knows every students by name!

Are they allowed to go solo there?
What's your solo x-wing limitation?
Can the student rent one of your aircraft for a week or two in order to do real PIC x-countries while building time towards the CPL?

Instructors should be able to be operationally efficient especially if they want to move up the aviation ladder.

I couldn't agree more: they should.
Would you say this is what you observed around CYHU?

To the original poster:
My recommendation is to do your PPL wherever, and get your night rating right after.
Then leave the FTU environment, go find an interesting airplane that is available for
block-hours purchase. Take it for weeks and travel. Challenge yourself every flights.
Fly with as many people as you can. Fly a taildragger, learn some aeros, try it on skis etc.


Cheers,
Olivier

[rob-air]

Are they allowed to go solo there?

No general rule against it, but it is not the first place we send our ppl students, we prefere CSU3 or small nav to CSG3.


What's your solo x-wing limitation?

denpends on the student or renter, but we do have some general rules to satisfy TC.

Can the student rent one of your aircraft for a week or two in order to do real PIC x-countries while building time towards the CPL?

yes, but we only have 4 birds so we do have some minimum flight time per day, so I will admit that we are not the best place for this.



Instructors should be able to be operationally efficient especially if they want to move up the aviation ladder.

I couldn't agree more: they should.
Would you say this is what you observed around CYHU?

Nope and it drives me nuts.

To the original poster:
My recommendation is to do your PPL wherever, and get your night rating right after.
Then leave the FTU environment, go find an interesting airplane that is available for
block-hours purchase. Take it for weeks and travel. Challenge yourself every flights.
Fly with as many people as you can. Fly a taildragger, learn some aeros, try it on skis etc.


I completely agree with that

[Shiny Side Up]

What's your solo x-wing limitation?

Well, if they can show me they can bulls-eye the womprats, I'll send 'em off to the Death Star trench. Lose a lot of students, but the ones that survive are generally pretty good.